Depression Quest

[Smiler]

Her actions are the very reason people treat women entering into predominantly male-dominated cultures and careers with trepidation. She is the living validation of negative stereotypes. She has single-handedly and irreparably damaged the reputation of every single person she has a professional relationship with, of every single person who leapt to her defense.

I'm going to quote this again, because this is a good example of why you are a scumbag.

[Nodal]

As for setting women back, she's in a male-dominated field. Women entering the industry from this point forward are going to have to fight even harder against this stereotype.

I'm going to quote this again, because this is a good example of why you are a scumbag.

[beatbandito]

But if you look around, the only evidence of a campaign against her are a couple of image board posts calling her a pepper and her accusations on her twitter feed. In other words, there's no tangible evidence she was ever actually the victim of online harassment.

sexually assaulting someone at a wedding -- you don't believe women are equal to men because you sure as pineapple would, and do seem to be, holding men to these standards.

She sexually assaulted a person at a wedding.

So when Quinn says she was harassed and all there are are a few posts from the message board and her tweets it's clearly not enough evidence. But when she harasses someone (in a much more serious and chargeable way) just a few tweets from one guy is enough to go off of, right?


There's nothing normal people can do now but step back so there's less damage from the fallout. Quinn got where she was by surrounding herself with people that felt a close connection to her as a person. Now they those people feel betrayed. Some feel like they were cheated on, some claim it's for the legitimacy of her work, some for all feminism everywhere, some still defending her saying if she were a man none of this would happen and that's the big issue.

Everything happening or being reported right now is based almost solely on emotion, and until this part's over we can just sit back and watch her fall

[Lyrai]

DNi please just

stop.

(yes, there is one for each post he's made in this thread)

[Disposable Ninja]

So when Quinn says she was harassed and all there are are a few posts from the message board and her tweets it's clearly not enough evidence. But when she harasses someone (in a much more serious and chargeable way) just a few tweets from one guy is enough to go off of, right?

Well, the difference is, Quinn claimed that it was a concentrated effort by a website called Wizardchan. Except there's no evidence on Wizardchan that they ever intended to harass her. Also, Wizardchan is prominently made up of people who have severe social anxiety and depression, to the point that the idea that they would pick up a phone and make threatening phone calls to her is kind of suspect. Also also, there would be phone records. She could've reported those numbers from her caller I.D. to the police.

The sexual harassment she's being accused of is mere he-said-she-said. Kind of hard to prove one way or the other. But she is an emotionally abusive, manipulative monster.

Why are you all fucking defending her?

[Lyrai]

[Disposable Ninja]

You're just a vile sack of shit

[Classic]

At the risk of being rude:

And the part where you claimed Quinn has set women in the games industry back, while ignoring the part the men involved with her played.

They're scum, too, don't get me wrong. And that hurts to say, because one of them worked on Aquaria and I love that game. But the level of their culpability is questionable right now, whereas we've got a pretty decent idea of what Zoe Quinn's is at the moment. As for setting women back, she's in a male-dominated field. Women entering the industry from this point forward are going to have to fight even harder against this stereotype. And, yeah, it won't be entirely Zoe Quinn's fault, but also that of the sexist shitbags who would judge all women for the actions of just one. Zoe Quinn is just at fault for justifying their shitty fucking attitudes to the letter. But at the end of the day, how much at fault they are is a red herring when we're discussing allegations about Quinn. Yes, it sucks that they have the benefit of not being minor celebrities and their culpability for the events that are unfolding will never be properly examined, but that's a different discussion than the one I want to zero in on.

I tried to make your complaint somewhat sympathetic, but I don't think I succeeded.

Also:

fun fact: i actually got that talking point from a female blogger hoping to get into the video game industry who feels she has to work harder from now on because of this whole ordeal

who's the sexist one now

Women can be misogynists. The quality of the argument isn't (or shouldn't be, but you know, sexism) improved or diminished because of the sex/gender of the arguer. You're still quoting someone who wants to blame Quinn for institutionalized sexism and the sexism of a sexist industry/field.

[Joxam]

This might be the first time I've seen someone unironically use the I've got black friends line in our community in the last fifteen years.

[Blossom]

Women can be misogynists. The quality of the argument isn't (or shouldn't be, but you know, sexism) improved or diminished because of the sex/gender of the arguer. You're still quoting someone who wants to blame Quinn for institutionalized sexism and the sexism of a sexist industry/field.

I don't think that's accurate. Quinn isn't being blamed for the existence of these things, she's being accused of deliberately contributing to them to further her career, and falsifying instances of them to promote her public image.

[Classic]

It smacks of blaming a tree for the forest.
As if Quinn's alleged indiscretions are the problem rather than a justification for the problem.

DN's woman in STEM isn't dealing with sexist bullshit because Quinn actually did something reprehensible, she's dealing with sexist bullshit because our society (and STEM in particular, apparently) tolerates misogyny.

EDIT:

I don't think that's accurate. Quinn isn't being blamed for the existence of these things, she's being accused of deliberately contributing to them to further her career, and falsifying instances of them to promote her public image.

I think we can both agree that being on the receiving end of this clusterpineapple suggests that "deliberately" is a poorly chosen word here.

[beatbandito]

Quinn isn't being blamed for the existence of these things, she's being accused of deliberately contributing to them to further her career

This line really annoys me but my original argument for why this is a terrible way to think just took away from the point I actually wanted to focus on. Classic had a good point, but if anyone else want to handle it that'd be great.


The Hard Facts:

Quinn is a woman.
Quinn is not bad looking (hell, I think she's pretty but we're not going subjectively here)

The Controversy:

Quinn slept with men she worked with.
Quinn lied to lots of people in ways that could be disproven easily.
Quinn is now basically hiding and waiting for all the attention she ended up with to blow over.

Before The Controversy:

Quinn was a big part of a community (partially formed by or around her) with a strong sense of personal truth and sincerity.
Quinn was working on a game called 'Depression Quest'.


I don't know about you other nerds that like to talk about videogames and have lots of relationships on the internet feel about yourselves, but I have generally pretty low self-esteem. Clearly this doesn't leave me crying in a corner thinking about how terrible I am all the time because I have plenty of opportunity to come here and let you all know how great I am and how you're all wrong about pseudo-celebrity gossip.

What it does mean is that sometimes I'm really easy to peer pressure. Most times really.
What does that mean exactly? Well a few things, actually!

I did start smoking cigarettes as a kid because 'smoker' is enough of a trait to give you a group to hang out with in high school. Yeah it's cliched, but that happened.

It also means I lie a lot. Stupid, stupid lies. Things that I think don't matter to anyone because, again, low self-esteem. When I told Kayin years ago when I first started hanging out with him that I was totally badass with a switchblade and immediately proven wrong when he handed me one to mess around with. When I told the lie the only thought in my mind was that I needed to put something out there so he would like me. That is, the guy who I already knew from talking to online who regularly and openly talked about his disgusting fetishes, had many of the same hobbies as me and had already invited me to come hang out with him at his house. And I told a lie that was literally disproven in seconds and would have made no impact in a negative OR positive light had it gone unchecked.

I also sleep with people I don't really care about, but again, not in a cool way. I've slept with women I've had no attraction to for reasons ranging from 'hosted the party' to 'was more attracted to a guy I didn't like' or 'made the first move'. These weren't people that I was sexually attracted to without caring about or who I regretted the next morning or anything near that. These are situations where I'm getting drunk at a party and a girl is constantly talking about how she wishes [some dick I hate] was there because he was so hot and awesome and the party was lame and then she starts to drink and press against me and all I think is "oh man, if I sex this girl than maybe she'll like me more than SDIH". I'll then take this girl outside and do things I am legitimately not enjoying until she decides to go back in to the party (thankfully). I will then sleep with this girl's best friend who I'm even less physically attracted to and I know a friend of mine likes only because after I passed out she started rubbing my dick and when I woke up my reaction wasn't "holy shit what's wrong with you" it was "oh god, now if I don't sleep with her she'll think I like her friend and don't like her and will get mad at me."

I also spend an insane amount of my time high, because it's too obvious if you're drunk all the time and if I'm sober I'm in a constant loop of revealing these things about myself, acting on them, or fearing other people's reactions to them.


So maybe think about how an anxious, slightly depressed guy whose name no one knows when put in certain situations. Now think about similar situations from the perspective of a woman in a field where you do ACTUALLY need to impress people and have them like you, and where it's considered fact that women need to work twice as hard at both those things.

Is it so hard to believe Depression Quest was created by someone that knows what it means to make mistakes? Hell if I know, I'mma light this blunt and try to forget I made a self-revealing post in response to one of the dumbest arguments we've had since the community decided one person with loud opinions is an argument.

[Z%rø]

I think we can all agree video games and everything related to them are for fucking nerds and we should all go play some sportsball

[nosimpleway]

I for one am shocked, truly shocked, that the person who made a game called Depression Quest may have made decisions indicative of poor judgment, such as may be indicative of some sort of hormonal or chemical imbalance in the brain.

[ocksi]

I'm still trying to figure out if she's done anything wrong that I have any business knowing about. I've seen claims (unsourced reddit user says she killed their game jam; unsourced person on twitter says he was sexually harassed; members of image board say it was only some of their users, not all of them harassing her (as far as I can tell?)) but nothing with any substance other than the original blog, which only discusses her personal life and really shouldn't have ever been made.

Without any proof of any of these claims, I really wish the only person facing the consequences of this was the boyfriend, who should have to answer to every woman he is ever involved with regarding when it is ok to air a relationship's dirty laundry across the internet and their professional community.

[TedBelmont]

Based on her twitter activity, she's doing anything but hiding and waiting for this to blow over.

[sei]

So when Quinn says she was harassed and all there are are a few posts from the message board and her tweets it's clearly not enough evidence. But when she harasses someone (in a much more serious and chargeable way) just a few tweets from one guy is enough to go off of, right?

Reminds me of beware isolated demands for rigor. Fun article. Nothing to do with the ZQ business.

[Z%rø]

Here's a longform video that sums it all up



I dunno if his argument of GAMING JOURNALISM IS DEAD LIKE NORMAL MEDIA is correct but it's a sum of the current situation

he's pretty biased against her and social justice but hey he's got all the pictures and info so far

[ocksi]

People have been using more modern forms of currency for favorable reviews since... pre-internet gaming journalism. That one developer potentially using sex instead of EA using cash to sway reviews might be different or devilish is a hilarious reason to start trying to destroy someone's career and life as part of an internet lynch mob.

And that's just under the assumption that this even happened. The most recent Kotaku post about Depression Quest was made months before her relationship with Nate Grayson (as reported by the ex-boyfriend).

Everything else is the same nonsense presented elsewhere.

[Thad]

I can't really bring myself to form an opinion about Quinn, Depression Quest, or any of this stuff.

But I CAN say that what Beat just did was fucking fearless.

Laying it all out like that, all just to explain why he feels empathy for somebody he doesn't even know? Pretty damn...I don't know, "impressive" and "admirable" are words that come to mind, but they seem insufficient.

Beat, that was personal, it was eloquent, and it was moving. Thanks for being willing to share.