Oh shit, what are we gonna do now?

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Mothra
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Re: Oh shit, what are we gonna do now?

Postby Mothra » Fri Oct 06, 2017 12:47 pm

"SIR?! SIR WHAT STORM?!?!"
"You'll see... ;3"
"Oh my god MR. PRESIDENT WHAT STORM?!?!"

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Re: Oh shit, what are we gonna do now?

Postby patito » Fri Oct 06, 2017 5:33 pm

Mongrel wrote:Speaking of that... Starr and I were wondering yesterday: Has the US prison system become so bad that it's actually getting comparable to prison systems in Central American nations?


I don't think central american prisons are like slave camps, but I haven't been keeping up honestly

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Hardly Ideal
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Re: Oh shit, what are we gonna do now?

Postby Hardly Ideal » Fri Oct 06, 2017 5:56 pm

I'm not sure which shithole prison systems the US compares to, partly because it blows my mind how awful ours can be.

Like, the one that sticks in my head was this incident at a private prison in Arizona, where a woman had to get a C-section. For whatever reason, the medical staff decided to treat her wound with sugar, like from the packets you'd get at McDonalds. Which was a fine enough way to disinfect wounds... before the advent of penicillin.

I find myself saying this a lot lately, but this is happening in what I'm often told is the greatest nation in history.
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Re: Oh shit, what are we gonna do now?

Postby Mongrel » Fri Oct 06, 2017 7:09 pm

Hardly Ideal wrote:I find myself saying this a lot lately, but this is happening in what I'm often told is the greatest nation in history.


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Re: Oh shit, what are we gonna do now?

Postby Grath » Sat Oct 07, 2017 4:40 pm

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beatbandito
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Re: Oh shit, what are we gonna do now?

Postby beatbandito » Sat Oct 07, 2017 8:06 pm

Cool story bro. Allow me to provide context.
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Re: Oh shit, what are we gonna do now?

Postby Grath » Sat Oct 07, 2017 9:59 pm

beatbandito wrote:Cool story bro. Allow me to provide context.

Yeah, found that out after posting it. But the entire Trump administration is Poe's Law.

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Re: Oh shit, what are we gonna do now?

Postby Hardly Ideal » Sat Oct 07, 2017 10:34 pm

We're already living at the intersection of Satire and Reality, so I wouldn't be surprised if this became real by the time I finish typing.

I mean, Bill O'Reilly just the other day echoed an Onion article about how mass shootings are the price of freedom.
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Re: Oh shit, what are we gonna do now?

Postby Mongrel » Sat Oct 07, 2017 10:51 pm

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Re: Oh shit, what are we gonna do now?

Postby Mongrel » Mon Oct 09, 2017 1:29 pm



The full piece on Miller is worth reading.
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Re: Oh shit, what are we gonna do now?

Postby Mongrel » Tue Oct 10, 2017 3:41 pm

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Re: Oh shit, what are we gonna do now?

Postby Mongrel » Wed Oct 11, 2017 1:06 pm

Remember the report that Tillerson had called Trump a moron after a meeting?

Well, it turns out the actual meeting was one in which Trump wanted to increase the size of the US's nuclear arsenal by nearly an order of magnitude - and asked three times "Why can't we use these things?"

eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

Meanwhile...

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Re: Oh shit, what are we gonna do now?

Postby Mongrel » Wed Oct 11, 2017 6:31 pm

A little more follow-up on the story.

Vanity Fair: “I Hate Everyone in the White House!”: Trump Seethes as Advisers Fear the President Is “Unraveling”

Not actually an Onion article. Also terrifying.
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Re: Oh shit, what are we gonna do now?

Postby Mongrel » Wed Oct 11, 2017 10:24 pm

Also this:

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Re: Oh shit, what are we gonna do now?

Postby Thad » Thu Oct 12, 2017 10:55 am

Mongrel wrote:A little more follow-up on the story.

Vanity Fair: “I Hate Everyone in the White House!”: Trump Seethes as Advisers Fear the President Is “Unraveling”

Not actually an Onion article. Also terrifying.

Terrifying, but it's also a major media outlet talking about Trump's removal by his cabinet as a likely possibility. There's hope there.

Even before Corker’s remarks, some West Wing advisers were worried that Trump’s behavior could cause the Cabinet to take extraordinary Constitutional measures to remove him from office. Several months ago, according to two sources with knowledge of the conversation, former chief strategist Steve Bannon told Trump that the risk to his presidency wasn’t impeachment, but the 25th Amendment—the provision by which a majority of the Cabinet can vote to remove the president. When Bannon mentioned the 25th Amendment, Trump said, “What’s that?” According to a source, Bannon has told people he thinks Trump has only a 30 percent chance of making it the full term.


(It's easy to make fun of Trump's "What's that?" response, but I honestly would have responded "Which one's that again?" if you'd mentioned the 25th Amendment to me a year and a half ago. That said, I at least know the gist of it even if I wouldn't have recognized it by number, and I'm not the president.)

If Bannon's been warning Trump all along to be suspicious of his own cabinet, that explains a lot about the turnover.

I'm gonna speculate wildly about who in the Cabinet might vote to remove him, because I would dearly like for this to actually happen.

Tillerson and Mattis are top of the list. Chao seems likely too; she's married to McConnell. Nielsen hasn't been confirmed yet, but she's a Kelly pick, so I'll put her up on the "likely" list too. That's 4; we need 8. (Plus Pence, but I figure if a majority of the cabinet comes to him with the signatures, that's a pretty good go-ahead for him and congressional Republicans to go for it; they don't want to make the first move, but if they can say "His own cabinet started it," that gives them political cover.)

There's no HHS nominee as of right now, but Hargan is acting secretary, and he's a veteran of both Bush Administrations, so I'd lean toward him being a possible vote to remove Trump. Shulkin's an Obama holdover with a medical background (and a psychiatrist father); I'll put him down for "likely yes" on removing Trump for psychological problems. That gets us to 6.

After that it's harder to make a call. Sessions still seems loyal even after all the shit Trump's slung at him. I wouldn't expect Mnuchin and Zinke to vote to remove either (though I think there's a tipping point where if just about everybody else is on board, they'll sign on). Ross has ties to Trump back to the late '90s. I'm not sure about Perdue or Acosta.

(ETA: I've reconsidered Mnuchin. If the "suicide pact" story is true and he's been working with Tillerson and Mattis to resist Trump, then he belongs in the "likely to vote to remove" column.)

Maybe Perry and Carson? I'd be holding a grudge after the primary if I were them.

You might be able to trick DeVos with candy.

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Re: Oh shit, what are we gonna do now?

Postby Mongrel » Thu Oct 12, 2017 1:29 pm

Thad wrote:You might be able to trick DeVos with candy.


xD
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Re: Oh shit, what are we gonna do now?

Postby TA » Thu Oct 12, 2017 7:33 pm

I mean ... they can't. Pence and the Cabinet can't remove Trump as President. They can invoke the 25th to declare him unable to serve, and install Pence as Acting President, but Trump can overrule that by submitting a written declaration of his ability to serve as President to Congress, which would happen within minutes, and he'd include with that letter the immediate dismissal of everyone in the cabinet that voted against him, as well as probably a public statement to that effect. Even if Pence and the Cabinet have another declaration waiting to try to table Trump again, at that point they need a 2/3rds majority in both houses of Congress to make it stick, declaring that Trump is unable to be President - not just unfit - and keep Pence as Acting President. And Trump can force them to revote every 23 days by submitting another written declaration, and clean house in the Cabinet every time, with Pence never actually getting to BE President during this time.

If they had a 2/3rds majority in both houses of Congress willing and eager to subvert the Constitution to get rid of Trump, they'd just impeach. That part of the 25th is for when the President goes into an unexpected coma or something, it doesn't work for a coup.
のほも is such a good word?? the concept is kind of hard to fully get across in translation, but basically it means a feeling of pure, deep, platonic affection, and i think thats beautiful

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Mongrel
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Re: Oh shit, what are we gonna do now?

Postby Mongrel » Thu Oct 12, 2017 8:52 pm

Checks and balances, chums.
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Re: Oh shit, what are we gonna do now?

Postby Thad » Thu Oct 12, 2017 10:04 pm

TA wrote:I mean ... they can't. Pence and the Cabinet can't remove Trump as President. They can invoke the 25th to declare him unable to serve, and install Pence as Acting President, but Trump can overrule that by submitting a written declaration of his ability to serve as President to Congress, which would happen within minutes, and he'd include with that letter the immediate dismissal of everyone in the cabinet that voted against him, as well as probably a public statement to that effect. Even if Pence and the Cabinet have another declaration waiting to try to table Trump again, at that point they need a 2/3rds majority in both houses of Congress to make it stick, declaring that Trump is unable to be President - not just unfit - and keep Pence as Acting President. And Trump can force them to revote every 23 days by submitting another written declaration, and clean house in the Cabinet every time, with Pence never actually getting to BE President during this time.

If they had a 2/3rds majority in both houses of Congress willing and eager to subvert the Constitution to get rid of Trump, they'd just impeach.


Well, yes.

Do you think that, if a majority of the cabinet, and the Vice President, declared in writing that the President was afflicted with mental illness so severe that it prevented him from fulfilling his duties, this would make it less likely for a majority of the House and 2/3 of the Senate to vote for impeachment? Or more?

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Re: Oh shit, what are we gonna do now?

Postby Mongrel » Fri Oct 13, 2017 1:23 am

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