Oh shit, what are we gonna do now?

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Thad
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Re: Oh shit, what are we gonna do now?

Postby Thad » Sun Aug 11, 2019 7:53 pm

Blossom wrote:
Thad wrote:I don't find it hard to believe that he killed himself and that the reason he wasn't under suicide watch is that the guards wanted him dead. And there are plenty of reasons to want a serial child rapist dead besides a coverup.

That said? If someone were to arrange a coverup, this is exactly what it would look like. We'll never know what happened, we'll never know the full extent of secrets he was keeping for powerful people, his victims will never get justice, and that's fucking infuriating.

This is going to be the biggest source of conspiracy theories since 9/11.

But it's not over. The investigation's still ongoing, with or without Epstein, and Ghislaine Maxwell looks like a pretty rich target too.

beatbandito wrote:I guarantee he had clients with more to hide, and more sense to hide it, than Trump.

Yeah, that too. If Trump had arranged it, he'd be bragging about it on Twitter.

That said, I can think of at least one prominent Trump supporter who's been known to have people assassinated for saying things he didn't like.

But there were lots of very powerful people with a motive to shut Epstein up. I'm seeing Prince Andrew's name in a lot of headlines this morning.



Yeah, about that.


As always, I don't have your legal background (or Mariotti's), but...as I read it, I think there's a difference between ending the criminal case against Epstein and ending the investigation into what he and his associates were doing. Per the NYT:

Jeffrey Epstein is dead. But the criminal investigation that led to the sex-trafficking charges against him is not.

Federal prosecutors and F.B.I. agents who built the case against Mr. Epstein will turn their attention to people whom his accusers have said participated in a scheme that dates back more than a decade and involved the sexual exploitation of dozens of underage girls.

That could include a circle of close associates whom accusers said helped recruit, train and coerce them into catering to Mr. Epstein, a wealthy financier.


Lord knows the NYT ain't always right, but...my read is that doesn't actually contradict what Mariotti said?

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François
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Re: Oh shit, what are we gonna do now?

Postby François » Sun Aug 11, 2019 8:34 pm

Yeah, that's my impression too. I mean, the US justice system is in the toilet but I still doubt they'd do a repeat of the Cadaver Synod; the guy's dead and well beyond the reach of the law, the case against him is moot.

But of course there were crimes committed, and other people still living participated in them, and it would be odd if prosecutors had absolutely nothing on any of them. It's just a question of whether they have enough to go anywhere with it now that the ringleader is down under doing the Tartarus Tango.

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Re: Oh shit, what are we gonna do now?

Postby Büge » Wed Aug 14, 2019 8:03 am

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Thad
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Re: Oh shit, what are we gonna do now?

Postby Thad » Thu Aug 15, 2019 11:38 am

The first act of this week's All the President's Lawyers concerns Epstein. Ken White's take:

The official story is the simplest, most plausible explanation. White describes jails and prisons as a culture of casual cruelty, neglect, and dehumanization. To the question of why Epstein wouldn't be subject to increased security due to the high profile of his case, Ken says it doesn't work that way; to the guards, "check in on Epstein every half hour" was just one more item on a checklist. And when people are tired and overworked, sometimes they half-ass their checklist.

It's probably a coincidence that the FBI raided Epstein's island right after his death. White says that while state and local warrants are often rubber stamps, federal warrants usually take time; the raid had been in the works for some time.

Epstein was never going to cooperate. The entire reason he was being prosecuted is that the feds were embarrassed by coverage of the sweet deal he got last time; they weren't going to offer him any kind of deal that could be criticized as too lenient. Bargaining a life sentence down to 25 years is a moot point to someone Epstein's age. Prosecutors weren't going to offer him anything better than that, which means he had no incentive to cooperate.

Aside from all that, the civil suits have started. One of the accusers has filed suit against Epstein's estate and Ghislaine Maxwell. I'm seeing conflicting reports about where Maxwell is at this point; she seems to be lying low.

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Re: Oh shit, what are we gonna do now?

Postby Mongrel » Thu Aug 15, 2019 1:19 pm

Thad wrote:I'm seeing conflicting reports about where Maxwell is at this point; she seems to be lying low.

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Re: Oh shit, what are we gonna do now?

Postby Mongrel » Thu Aug 15, 2019 1:26 pm

Oh and while Thad's post is valid, the problem with labelling it the simplest explanation is that it presupposes that Epstein did in fact want to die.

Meanwhile, another small update.
The Washington Post reported on Thursday that, according to two sources familiar with the results, the autopsy revealed Epstein, who was discovered hanging in his cell at Manhattan’s Metropolitan Correction Center on Saturday, sustained multiple breaks to bones in his neck. The Post reports that Epstein’s injuries included a broken hyoid bone, which, according to forensics experts, is more common in homicide by strangulation cases than in suicides. However it is also the case that “such breaks can occur in those who hang themselves, particularly if they are older,” according to forensics experts and studies on the subject.
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Re: Oh shit, what are we gonna do now?

Postby pacobird » Thu Aug 15, 2019 2:40 pm

Thad wrote:Epstein was never going to cooperate. The entire reason he was being prosecuted is that the feds were embarrassed by coverage of the sweet deal he got last time; they weren't going to offer him any kind of deal that could be criticized as too lenient.


This kind of obliterates context. We'll never know how the public would have received a sweetheart deal for Epstein but all signs point to his cooperation revealing details that would be so explosive that it's weird to just assume outrage. Obviously he was the worst and deserved the worst, but is anyone going to say that hard evidence implicating multiple United States Presidents in child sex trafficking isn't worth letting Epstein avoid dying in prison?

EDIT: though I do think Epstein wanted to kill himself, yes
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Re: Oh shit, what are we gonna do now?

Postby Upthorn » Fri Aug 16, 2019 5:51 am

Thad wrote:Epstein was never going to cooperate. The entire reason he was being prosecuted is that the feds were embarrassed by coverage of the sweet deal he got last time; they weren't going to offer him any kind of deal that could be criticized as too lenient. Bargaining a life sentence down to 25 years is a moot point to someone Epstein's age. Prosecutors weren't going to offer him anything better than that, which means he had no incentive to cooperate.


Yeah, but spite, though.
How fleeting are all human passions compared with the massive continuity of ducks.

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Re: Oh shit, what are we gonna do now?

Postby Mongrel » Tue Aug 20, 2019 10:02 pm

Latest headline: Trump says Jewish people who vote Democratic are uninformed or disloyal

Holy fuckin' Moses
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Re: Oh shit, what are we gonna do now?

Postby Mongrel » Wed Aug 21, 2019 1:20 pm



EDIT: It's unclear right now if this is a photoshop job that's being circulated or actual post.

That said, Perry's a guy who managed to get a D in a college course called "Meats", so anything's possible.
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Re: Oh shit, what are we gonna do now?

Postby Mongrel » Wed Aug 21, 2019 11:15 pm

Latest headline: 'I am the Chosen One,' Trump proclaims as he defends trade war with China.
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Re: Oh shit, what are we gonna do now?

Postby nosimpleway » Wed Aug 21, 2019 11:54 pm

He's not the Chosen One. He's barely Wimp Lo.

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Re: Oh shit, what are we gonna do now?

Postby Mongrel » Tue Sep 10, 2019 4:09 pm

Bolton the latest to get shitcanned.

Hilariously, the price of oil immediately fell in response.
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beatbandito
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Re: Oh shit, what are we gonna do now?

Postby beatbandito » Tue Sep 10, 2019 5:16 pm

As the rest of the internet has already picked up on as well, I will continue to be happy about this up until he's somehow replaced with someone much worse.
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Thad
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Re: Oh shit, what are we gonna do now?

Postby Thad » Tue Sep 10, 2019 6:06 pm

Bolton is a rare combination of evil and competent. Not to jinx it, but I think it'd be tough to find someone worse (though less difficult to find someone equally bad -- as the rest of the internet has also already noted, Kissinger is still around).

I'll also nitpick the narrative that he was fired; he says he quit. And while he ain't exactly the most trustworthy guy, "he quit and now Trump is pretending it was his idea" is entirely believable.

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Re: Oh shit, what are we gonna do now?

Postby Friday » Tue Sep 10, 2019 6:17 pm

Bolton is a rare combination of evil and competent.


The Trumps send their regards
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Re: Oh shit, what are we gonna do now?

Postby Blossom » Wed Sep 11, 2019 12:39 am

One of those wild situations where everybody's wrong, and everybody's shitty, and everybody's stupid, and still of course the Democratic leadership manages to stake out the worst reaction:

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