Oh shit, what are we gonna do now?

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Thad
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Re: Oh shit, what are we gonna do now?

Postby Thad » Sun Aug 11, 2019 7:53 pm

Blossom wrote:
Thad wrote:I don't find it hard to believe that he killed himself and that the reason he wasn't under suicide watch is that the guards wanted him dead. And there are plenty of reasons to want a serial child rapist dead besides a coverup.

That said? If someone were to arrange a coverup, this is exactly what it would look like. We'll never know what happened, we'll never know the full extent of secrets he was keeping for powerful people, his victims will never get justice, and that's fucking infuriating.

This is going to be the biggest source of conspiracy theories since 9/11.

But it's not over. The investigation's still ongoing, with or without Epstein, and Ghislaine Maxwell looks like a pretty rich target too.

beatbandito wrote:I guarantee he had clients with more to hide, and more sense to hide it, than Trump.

Yeah, that too. If Trump had arranged it, he'd be bragging about it on Twitter.

That said, I can think of at least one prominent Trump supporter who's been known to have people assassinated for saying things he didn't like.

But there were lots of very powerful people with a motive to shut Epstein up. I'm seeing Prince Andrew's name in a lot of headlines this morning.



Yeah, about that.


As always, I don't have your legal background (or Mariotti's), but...as I read it, I think there's a difference between ending the criminal case against Epstein and ending the investigation into what he and his associates were doing. Per the NYT:

Jeffrey Epstein is dead. But the criminal investigation that led to the sex-trafficking charges against him is not.

Federal prosecutors and F.B.I. agents who built the case against Mr. Epstein will turn their attention to people whom his accusers have said participated in a scheme that dates back more than a decade and involved the sexual exploitation of dozens of underage girls.

That could include a circle of close associates whom accusers said helped recruit, train and coerce them into catering to Mr. Epstein, a wealthy financier.


Lord knows the NYT ain't always right, but...my read is that doesn't actually contradict what Mariotti said?

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Re: Oh shit, what are we gonna do now?

Postby François » Sun Aug 11, 2019 8:34 pm

Yeah, that's my impression too. I mean, the US justice system is in the toilet but I still doubt they'd do a repeat of the Cadaver Synod; the guy's dead and well beyond the reach of the law, the case against him is moot.

But of course there were crimes committed, and other people still living participated in them, and it would be odd if prosecutors had absolutely nothing on any of them. It's just a question of whether they have enough to go anywhere with it now that the ringleader is down under doing the Tartarus Tango.

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Re: Oh shit, what are we gonna do now?

Postby Büge » Wed Aug 14, 2019 8:03 am

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Re: Oh shit, what are we gonna do now?

Postby Thad » Thu Aug 15, 2019 11:38 am

The first act of this week's All the President's Lawyers concerns Epstein. Ken White's take:

The official story is the simplest, most plausible explanation. White describes jails and prisons as a culture of casual cruelty, neglect, and dehumanization. To the question of why Epstein wouldn't be subject to increased security due to the high profile of his case, Ken says it doesn't work that way; to the guards, "check in on Epstein every half hour" was just one more item on a checklist. And when people are tired and overworked, sometimes they half-ass their checklist.

It's probably a coincidence that the FBI raided Epstein's island right after his death. White says that while state and local warrants are often rubber stamps, federal warrants usually take time; the raid had been in the works for some time.

Epstein was never going to cooperate. The entire reason he was being prosecuted is that the feds were embarrassed by coverage of the sweet deal he got last time; they weren't going to offer him any kind of deal that could be criticized as too lenient. Bargaining a life sentence down to 25 years is a moot point to someone Epstein's age. Prosecutors weren't going to offer him anything better than that, which means he had no incentive to cooperate.

Aside from all that, the civil suits have started. One of the accusers has filed suit against Epstein's estate and Ghislaine Maxwell. I'm seeing conflicting reports about where Maxwell is at this point; she seems to be lying low.

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Re: Oh shit, what are we gonna do now?

Postby Mongrel » Thu Aug 15, 2019 1:19 pm

Thad wrote:I'm seeing conflicting reports about where Maxwell is at this point; she seems to be lying low.

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Re: Oh shit, what are we gonna do now?

Postby Mongrel » Thu Aug 15, 2019 1:26 pm

Oh and while Thad's post is valid, the problem with labelling it the simplest explanation is that it presupposes that Epstein did in fact want to die.

Meanwhile, another small update.
The Washington Post reported on Thursday that, according to two sources familiar with the results, the autopsy revealed Epstein, who was discovered hanging in his cell at Manhattan’s Metropolitan Correction Center on Saturday, sustained multiple breaks to bones in his neck. The Post reports that Epstein’s injuries included a broken hyoid bone, which, according to forensics experts, is more common in homicide by strangulation cases than in suicides. However it is also the case that “such breaks can occur in those who hang themselves, particularly if they are older,” according to forensics experts and studies on the subject.
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Re: Oh shit, what are we gonna do now?

Postby pacobird » Thu Aug 15, 2019 2:40 pm

Thad wrote:Epstein was never going to cooperate. The entire reason he was being prosecuted is that the feds were embarrassed by coverage of the sweet deal he got last time; they weren't going to offer him any kind of deal that could be criticized as too lenient.


This kind of obliterates context. We'll never know how the public would have received a sweetheart deal for Epstein but all signs point to his cooperation revealing details that would be so explosive that it's weird to just assume outrage. Obviously he was the worst and deserved the worst, but is anyone going to say that hard evidence implicating multiple United States Presidents in child sex trafficking isn't worth letting Epstein avoid dying in prison?

EDIT: though I do think Epstein wanted to kill himself, yes
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Re: Oh shit, what are we gonna do now?

Postby Upthorn » Fri Aug 16, 2019 5:51 am

Thad wrote:Epstein was never going to cooperate. The entire reason he was being prosecuted is that the feds were embarrassed by coverage of the sweet deal he got last time; they weren't going to offer him any kind of deal that could be criticized as too lenient. Bargaining a life sentence down to 25 years is a moot point to someone Epstein's age. Prosecutors weren't going to offer him anything better than that, which means he had no incentive to cooperate.


Yeah, but spite, though.
How fleeting are all human passions compared with the massive continuity of ducks.

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Re: Oh shit, what are we gonna do now?

Postby Mongrel » Tue Aug 20, 2019 10:02 pm

Latest headline: Trump says Jewish people who vote Democratic are uninformed or disloyal

Holy fuckin' Moses
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Re: Oh shit, what are we gonna do now?

Postby Mongrel » Wed Aug 21, 2019 1:20 pm



EDIT: It's unclear right now if this is a photoshop job that's being circulated or actual post.

That said, Perry's a guy who managed to get a D in a college course called "Meats", so anything's possible.
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Re: Oh shit, what are we gonna do now?

Postby Mongrel » Wed Aug 21, 2019 11:15 pm

Latest headline: 'I am the Chosen One,' Trump proclaims as he defends trade war with China.
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Re: Oh shit, what are we gonna do now?

Postby nosimpleway » Wed Aug 21, 2019 11:54 pm

He's not the Chosen One. He's barely Wimp Lo.

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Re: Oh shit, what are we gonna do now?

Postby Mongrel » Tue Sep 10, 2019 4:09 pm

Bolton the latest to get shitcanned.

Hilariously, the price of oil immediately fell in response.
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Re: Oh shit, what are we gonna do now?

Postby beatbandito » Tue Sep 10, 2019 5:16 pm

As the rest of the internet has already picked up on as well, I will continue to be happy about this up until he's somehow replaced with someone much worse.
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Re: Oh shit, what are we gonna do now?

Postby Thad » Tue Sep 10, 2019 6:06 pm

Bolton is a rare combination of evil and competent. Not to jinx it, but I think it'd be tough to find someone worse (though less difficult to find someone equally bad -- as the rest of the internet has also already noted, Kissinger is still around).

I'll also nitpick the narrative that he was fired; he says he quit. And while he ain't exactly the most trustworthy guy, "he quit and now Trump is pretending it was his idea" is entirely believable.

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Re: Oh shit, what are we gonna do now?

Postby Friday » Tue Sep 10, 2019 6:17 pm

Bolton is a rare combination of evil and competent.


The Trumps send their regards
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Re: Oh shit, what are we gonna do now?

Postby Blossom » Wed Sep 11, 2019 12:39 am

One of those wild situations where everybody's wrong, and everybody's shitty, and everybody's stupid, and still of course the Democratic leadership manages to stake out the worst reaction:

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Re: Oh shit, what are we gonna do now?

Postby Friday » Wed Sep 25, 2019 3:05 pm

I read about the Impeachment yesterday at Kona Airport on my phone before we boarded, and thought "Whoo boy, I'm gonna have some fun reading on Bronto when I get home!"

So I'm still on Hawaii time, my brain is jetlagged, and my body aches from a 13 hour travel day, but here we go.

Last night I had a dream I met Bernie Sanders, the dog, (he was a yorkie) in my local downtown park. Highlights include him telling me he could hear his owner calling and running off, but then running back to shout "You were lovely!" at the end of the dream. We had a long discussion in which I explained to him that if Trump wins 2020, I actually think it's probably the end of human civilization as we know it.

Now, you guys know me. I've been doom and gloom edgelady all through my teens and 20s. And while dream-Friday was a manifestation of my worry and anxiety over the current climate (political and otherwise, get it) of the planet, real life awake-non edgelord Friday doesn't actually believe Trump will end the world... probably.

But her fears were, and aren't, entirely unfounded. In 2004 I thought the world was going to end because humans have an unsustainable economic model of unlimited population growth and are incapable of changing that. In 2019 I think the world is going to end because humans have an unsustainable economic model of unlimited population growth and are incapable of changing that.

Get it? Trump doesn't really enter into play. The fundamental problem facing humans right now is, when you boil it down, there are just too many of us.*

The carrying capacity of the planet might be a projected 10 billion in terms of like, pure math/resources, but that's not accounting for the fact that that many of us inevitably fuck up the climate/environment we live in, leading to the oceans dying/rising, leading to mass refugees, leading to a rise in nationalism, leading to World War III: This Time It's Biological and Nuclear, leading to a mass culling and a restructuring of how humans live. Overpopulation, is, after all, a self-correcting problem.

But Friday! Industrialization leads to lower birth rates! The breeding problem will take care of itself once we get Africa up to speed in terms of factories!

Whew! You wipe your brow, having offering the classic counter argument. Friday's wrong, overpopulation isn't the problem. That's being taken care of by market forces.

But wait! Friday comes back with a really obvious counter-argument!

Here is a human being. This human being lives in Africa in a hut made of grass and mud.

:) --- ***

See that? That person is happy, smiling. Those three stars over there is what's called a "footprint" which is basically just, like, how much carbon and waste and shit that person produces.

Now, let's look at an American!

:) --- ***********************************************************************************************************************

Whoa! That's weird! Did Friday do any research? Well, no. I just held down shift 8 for a while. But you're smart, you get my point.

Now, let's use our brains. Did you know that when the planet counts how many humans there are in terms of their impact on the climate and shit, it doesn't count the smiley faces?

So if your argument for "fixing" overpopulation is "just industrialize everyone so they stop having kids" I have news for you! It's not the greatest news so you might want to sit down.

So what -is- the solution then? Solar panels? Windmills? (No. The solution is Nuclear Power.) Sort of. Technology is the solution. Desalinization is the solution. Sustainable green energy and water and food.

So, what's the problem? Why aren't we doing that? I mean, we are, kind of, but not nearly not nearly not NEARLY enough of it. Why?

Well, here's where Trump sort of comes into play.

See, there's this thing where the fix I mentioned, you know, sustainable energy, food, and water generation, well, it isn't cheap. In fact, it's really expensive. A lot of the tech is either in proto-stages or just simply doesn't exist. It requires a massive investment of money and resources. Though, to be fair, a lot of it is actually pretty much ready to go! We just need to stop being afraid of nuclear power, get New Mexico to allow us to dump the waste into that big hole, get Germany to stop using the worst and most horrible kind of coal to power itself instead of nuclear, get China to uh, I have no idea, but something really major because they have the most asterisks, etc.

Now here's the problem. Here's the catch. The solution is obvious. The solution is doable. The solution isn't easy, but we have a clear path forward.

Except for all those pesky greedy evil people throwing up roadblocks at every turn, I mean.

Coal power, dirty power, makes you more money. Oil makes you more money. The world runs on fuels that make a few people rich and they do not want to stop making more money. They will do everything and anything in their considerable power to keep making more money.

They don't care that their money comes at the price of the literal end of Neo-Rome: This Time It's Planetoid. They don't care about you, your kids, your grandkids, and if we're optimistic your great grandkids. They don't even care about their own fucking grandkids. They just want more money, right now.

Trump is their crony. Their pal. Their beloved idiot.

But they have other cronies. They have other pals. They have other Republicans. Oh, sorry, I meant to say idiots. What'd I say?

Impeachment? Sure. Winning 2020? Sure. Both good things. Show those fearmongering self-obsessed greedy evil fucks that we can push back! That we won't stand here wringing our hands and making blog posts while they ravage our future!

But Trump is just the first boss. He's the fucking tutorial boss of Climate Change: The Videogame.

There will be more like him. The world is teetering at a crossroads. We can turn left toward "normal" and "fairytales of eternal economic growth" and witness our world and society crumble, ecosystems collapse, animals go extinct, and our children starve.

Or we can turn right toward a future in which those things don't happen. That's it.

Let's learn how to rolldodge and hit Trump in his fat ass with our broken sword until his health bar runs out.
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Re: Oh shit, what are we gonna do now?

Postby Mongrel » Wed Sep 25, 2019 3:21 pm

The way I figure it, we're going to lose a lot before we get real, concerted action.

Pretty much every reasonable take on the matter is very clear that we're just plain fucked unless we see global mobilization on a level surpassing that of WWII... several decades ago. Hell, each time I see new projections, it seems the allowable amount the earth can warm without horrifically disastrous changes gets lowered each time.

The question is how bad do things get before we reach the point where we can strongarm/shoot enough of the rich bastards burning us all to line their pockets to actually be able to do this.

It's possible that the answer is "real fuckin' bad" because there is a massive lag between action and results on something this huge. It may be so late that dangerous notions like "shoot reflective chaff into the upper atmosphere" may go from being a shortcut for lunatics to a fucking last-chance hail-mary for any sizable amount of our civilizations to survive as we know it.

And that's without getting into the very, very real possibilities of massive, global warfare.

(No matter how bad things get, the human species, cancerous cockroach that it is, will survive. We were torn down to a mere two-thousand individuals at at least one point in the past with absolutely NONE of the modern survival aids we have now, so I figure the best poor old mother earth can ever do is put us in remission. But in that sort of scenario, all bets are off on which few get to the lifeboats)
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Re: Oh shit, what are we gonna do now?

Postby Mongrel » Wed Sep 25, 2019 3:28 pm

There is one quasi-hopeful thing I saw the other day.

Well over 95% of ALL the world's carbon emissions are produced by as few as a 100 corporations and every last one of them is a fossil fuel company.

So there's an actual viable target to focus on controlling that could yield real results.

The big problem there is that the top half of that list includes state enterprises like Saudi Aramco, National Iranian Oil Company, Gazprom, and "China - coal" (that last one is the single biggest emitter on the planet, IIRC).
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