Our Boys In Blue

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Brentai
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Re: Our Boys In Blue

Postby Brentai » Fri Jun 16, 2017 7:32 pm

If I were a patrol officer right now, I'd immediately turn in my badge and look for another occupation.

Not in protest or anything.

I'd just not be okay with the fact that if I had to stop anybody who's armed and darker than me, the only safe thing for them to do would be to shoot me immediately and try to get away.

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Hardly Ideal
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Re: Our Boys In Blue

Postby Hardly Ideal » Fri Jun 16, 2017 8:04 pm

I've been thinking lately: "Maybe the police would be less jumpy if there weren't over a quarter-billion guns in this country."
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Joxam
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Re: Our Boys In Blue

Postby Joxam » Fri Jun 16, 2017 8:18 pm

So as much as there are a lot of issues here (Shit laws written to protect police chief among them) I've begun to think that this might also be one of the biggest arguments against one of the hard left's biggest pet ideas.

Jury Nullification.

A lot of my very hard left friends believe that Jury Nullification is one of the best ways to fight the system and while I DO actually think there is merit to the argument I also believe that when a cop finally does end up going to trial that cop generally gets off due in no small part to the fact that a jury is significantly negatively disposed to punishing a cop.

Of course it can't be overlooked that laws are written in such a way that in a lot of places cops just get to kill you based on their 'feelings' but I think that just makes it easier for people to sleep well after letting a murderer get off because he's taken a job in one of our current 'Hero' professions.
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Re: Our Boys In Blue

Postby nosimpleway » Fri Jun 16, 2017 9:04 pm

Thad wrote:It's been awhile since I took an anatomy class, but...are eyeballs explosion-proof?

The eye is a ball of chitin full of mostly water. A shock big enough to sever the optic nerve and explode the orbital socket enough to send the eyeball flying has probably ruptured the eyeball itself, yeah.

This is mostly speculation but if it helps I am in an anatomy class this semester, and the skull was the first body part we covered.

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Re: Our Boys In Blue

Postby Thad » Sat Jun 17, 2017 1:04 pm

Joxam wrote:So as much as there are a lot of issues here (Shit laws written to protect police chief among them) I've begun to think that this might also be one of the biggest arguments against on of the hard left's biggest pet ideas.

Jury Nullification.

A lot of my very hard left friends believe that Jury Nullification is one of the best ways to fight the system and while I DO actually think there is merit to the argument I also believe that when a cop finally does end up going to trial that cop generally gets off due in no small part to the fact that a jury is significantly negatively disposed to punishing a cop.


Like most things, there are arguments both for and against jury nullification. When I read a few years ago (before the big legalization push) that a man had gotten off on possession charges because everybody in the jury pool said they were unwilling to convict somebody for possessing a small amount of marijuana, that was a fucking positive sign.

The best argument against is Emmett Till. And I think you've nailed the problem here; we're still dealing with that ugly legacy.

I suppose, ultimately, a bias toward letting the guilty go free over convicting the innocent is a good thing, and what our criminal justice system is supposed to be about. But of course that's not really what we have here; we have a bias toward letting the guilty go free and convicting the innocent, depending on factors including wealth, fame, prestige, job, and, absolutely and undeniably, race.

And oh hey, I'm seeing headlines with the words Cosby and mistrial in them this morning. Timely.

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TA
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Re: Our Boys In Blue

Postby TA » Sun Jun 18, 2017 8:57 pm

There are two kinds of arguments about jury nullification that I've seen. The first, and much hotter one, is the argument over whether or not the system should account for and include jury nullification, because a lot of people like to claim that it is an important part of the judicial process. This, to me, is self-evidently ludicrous. Jury nullification is a complete rejection of the idea of rule of law. You can't endorse its use and also claim to support a system that treats people equally under the law, because jury nullification is explicitly refusing to do that. A system that permits jury nullification is a system that WANTS Emmett Till. It's one that WANTS George Zimmerman. It's unconscionable to want it as part of a working system. We've had this argument on these boards before.

So given that jury nullification is antithetical to rule of law, to a system that treats people equally under the law ... the other argument is whether to do it anyway. Since it has become increasingly clear that this country largely does not have and in many regards has never had any kind of rule of law. In that sense, it's not really about whether or not the system should allow for jury nullification, because the system is fucked beyond repair and not worth considering. What it's about is whether to use jury nullification as a tactic to get actual positive results in the face of a busted and racist system, with the knowledge that bad actors are using it already no matter what. In that case? Fuck yeah, do it. Return a not guilty for any drug crime, hit every cop with everything you can regardless of what the state has or hasn't managed to bury. Adhering to the rules of the racist, violent criminal justice system makes you just as culpable, so don't.
のほも is such a good word?? the concept is kind of hard to fully get across in translation, but basically it means a feeling of pure, deep, platonic affection, and i think thats beautiful

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Brentai
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Re: Our Boys In Blue

Postby Brentai » Mon Jun 19, 2017 11:42 am

God, though, if you think we're litigious now...

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Hardly Ideal
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Re: Our Boys In Blue

Postby Hardly Ideal » Tue Jun 20, 2017 6:02 pm

So, they posted the dashcam footage of Castile's shooting over on Wonkette.

I'm sure it's been said already, but I do wonder why lethal force seems to be the first resort so often. I presume most officers have less-than-lethal means they can grab just as quickly as a regular gun. And I hate to go all Zapruder on police shooting videos, but it sure seemed like Yanez had enough time to go for his gun; something like three or five seconds, according to one transcript.
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Bal
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Re: Our Boys In Blue

Postby Bal » Thu Jun 22, 2017 10:45 am

Jury nullification shouldn't be anyone's "tool". Insofar as you can control it at all, which has me pretty unconvinced frankly. It mostly happens when the broad majority in the region roundly reject the premise of the trial at hand. Sometimes that's terrible, backward thinking. Other times it's representative of a progressive sea change that reflects the inability of the law to keep up with the will of the people, and that perhaps that law should be reexamined.

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Re: Our Boys In Blue

Postby Grath » Thu Jun 22, 2017 12:08 pm

Hardly Ideal wrote:So, they posted the dashcam footage of Castile's shooting over on Wonkette.

I'm sure it's been said already, but I do wonder why lethal force seems to be the first resort so often. I presume most officers have less-than-lethal means they can grab just as quickly as a regular gun. And I hate to go all Zapruder on police shooting videos, but it sure seemed like Yanez had enough time to go for his gun; something like three or five seconds, according to one transcript.

Castile did basically everything right except possibly "keep your hands on the wheel while informing, then ask the police officer murderer before every move you make", and the murderer saying "that's okay, just don't pull [your gun] out" could be taken as permission to keep reaching for his wallet.

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TA
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Re: Our Boys In Blue

Postby TA » Sun Jun 25, 2017 4:40 am

Bal wrote:Jury nullification shouldn't be anyone's "tool". Insofar as you can control it at all, which has me pretty unconvinced frankly. It mostly happens when the broad majority in the region roundly reject the premise of the trial at hand. Sometimes that's terrible, backward thinking. Other times it's representative of a progressive sea change that reflects the inability of the law to keep up with the will of the people, and that perhaps that law should be reexamined.


Only if you assume that the law is on any level interested in keeping up with the will of the people, rather than reinforcing existing power structures and making sure those in power are not threatened by anyone too poor or black or queer or female to deserve consideration.
のほも is such a good word?? the concept is kind of hard to fully get across in translation, but basically it means a feeling of pure, deep, platonic affection, and i think thats beautiful

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Bal
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Re: Our Boys In Blue

Postby Bal » Sun Jun 25, 2017 11:58 am

No, you don't have to assume that. Jury nullification as a phenomenon is generally organic, and serves only to show a difference between the will of the people, and the law as it is written. If we assume that all lawmakers and therefore all laws are made by rich white men bent on enriching themselves, first of all there are a ton of laws that don't make any sense in that context, but secondly that will just cause more of exactly the kind of phenomenon I'm talking about.

A law that does not serve the people, and is subject to review in court by a jury, really cannot stand that scrutiny for very long. The laws you should be worried about are the kind that just exist, and are only subject to review by lawmakers.

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sei
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Re: Our Boys In Blue

Postby sei » Wed Jul 19, 2017 2:12 am

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Rico
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Re: Our Boys In Blue

Postby Rico » Wed Jul 19, 2017 2:53 am

Meanwhile, Baltimore police attempt to plant drugs, not knowing their body cams save the 30 seconds immediately before they're "turned on".

https://twitter.com/justin_fenton/statu ... 6074939393

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Büge
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Re: Our Boys In Blue

Postby Büge » Wed Jul 19, 2017 9:04 am



“The BCA’s investigation is in its early stages. More information will be available once initial interviews with incident participants and any witnesses are complete. … The officers’ body cameras were not turned on at the time and the squad camera did not capture the incident. Investigators are attempting to determine whether any video of the incident exists.”


Naturally.

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Joxam
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Re: Our Boys In Blue

Postby Joxam » Wed Jul 19, 2017 4:56 pm

This is no defense of the situatiom but the largest manufacturer of body cameras openly admits that the reasons these things even have an on/off switch is that the batteries in them aren't designed to last an entire shift which is just fucking stupid in my opinion.
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Bal
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Re: Our Boys In Blue

Postby Bal » Wed Jul 19, 2017 5:02 pm

The solution is to fix the battery life, leave the on/off switches there, but have them do nothing but record attempts to use them.

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Re: Our Boys In Blue

Postby Mothra » Wed Jul 19, 2017 7:33 pm

Bal wrote:The solution is to fix the battery life, leave the on/off switches there, but have them do nothing but record attempts to use them.

Fucking THIS.

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Hardly Ideal
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Re: Our Boys In Blue

Postby Hardly Ideal » Thu Jul 20, 2017 4:29 pm

I've been seeing more of these Punisher/Thin Blue Line stickers lately, and I can't be the only one disturbed by it. Like, you guys do know about Frank Castle, right?

(huh, I thought I posted this already...)
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Re: Our Boys In Blue

Postby Mongrel » Thu Jul 20, 2017 4:48 pm

Yeah, there was a thing a while back where a Kentucky PD was putting them all over their cars and lots of people called to complain.

I mean, even if you've never heard of The Punisher at all, it's a fucking skull.

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