Misogyny Kills

User avatar
Büge
Posts: 2876
Joined: Mon Jan 20, 2014 6:56 pm

Misogyny Kills

Postby Büge » Sun May 25, 2014 6:47 pm

On Friday night, a man murdered six people and wounded seven more. His motive for doing so was because he believed he was due sex and female attention. He was influenced by MRAs. He posted a manifesto on youtube, which I'm not going to link.

This is bringing out the ugly side of the internet. Creepy misogynists are crowing about how good it is that women are terrified of being murdered, because it means they might agree to the sex that they "owe" men:

Image

This is awful. It's like the worst parts of modern society converged into one horrible event: gun culture, rape culture, the fetishization of violence, male privilege, to name a few. Of course nothing will get solved. The NRA is already putting a spin on this to deflect the issue towards mental illness.
Image

User avatar
Mongrel
Posts: 11057
Joined: Mon Jan 20, 2014 6:28 pm
Location: Canadumb

Re: Misogyny Kills

Postby Mongrel » Sun May 25, 2014 6:53 pm

To add to that, it appears he was a failed follower of "The Game" (that pick-up artist bullshit) and now THAT group is going around telling people that "The Game saves lives".

What was really weird about this (for me) is that I didn't see it in the news right away, but I did see it referred to tertially in a totally separate op ed about something only very distantly related. So I actually thought it had taken place some time ago - months or even years and was being referred to after the fact, so my thought was "Man, how bad is this stuff that I didn't even hear about it when it first happened?". Then of course I saw it all over the afternoon news and realized it only happened yesterday.
Image

User avatar
zaratustra
Posts: 1274
Joined: Mon Jan 20, 2014 6:45 pm

Re: Misogyny Kills

Postby zaratustra » Sun May 25, 2014 7:09 pm

It's ok, all groups have thoroughly disowned the shooter who was mentally troubled and also a strawman and obviously there is nobody else like this that belongs to our group.

Nothing is learned, ever.

User avatar
Brentai
Woah Dangsaurus
Posts: 2264
Joined: Mon Jan 20, 2014 2:40 pm

Re: Misogyny Kills

Postby Brentai » Sun May 25, 2014 7:14 pm

Blame it on loners and move on.

User avatar
TA
Posts: 1784
Joined: Mon Jan 20, 2014 8:58 pm

Re: Misogyny Kills

Postby TA » Sun May 25, 2014 7:48 pm

The person who runs the puahate.txt feed has some good words to say, since this dude was an active poster on that site.

Editors note: Normally I don't do anything with this account other than directly post quotes from PUAhate.
Cont: Staying silent right now would feel dishonest though. 6 people were murdered by a known poster from the website.
It's a fucking tragedy.
Taking quotes from PUAhate has to me been 'real life' satire. I grab quotes that are so outlandish that I can't believe they exist.
The last few days have been a reminder that this isn't satire unfortunately. These are real people with horrific, violent views.
Some quotes are no doubt trolls and exaggerated vents, but the entire culture of the website is rooted in violent misogyny.
My heart goes out to everyone affected by this.
Currently, PUAhate seems to be down. This is probably not a coincidence.
If it comes back, I'm going to continue to run this twitter. I run this for comedy, but I think it's important to highlight these views
You can laugh the quotes I find, Just remember that somewhere out there is a real person who wrote and believes it.
Image

User avatar
Disposable Ninja
Posts: 462
Joined: Mon Jan 20, 2014 8:50 pm

Re: Misogyny Kills

Postby Disposable Ninja » Sun May 25, 2014 11:12 pm



PUAs are not MRAs. I know it can be difficult to tell men in fedoras apart sometimes, but the two groups are not only separate, they actually kind of hate each other.
For the White Witch!

User avatar
Mothra
Woah Dangsaurus
Posts: 3331
Joined: Mon Jan 20, 2014 7:12 pm
Location: Boston, MA
Contact:

Re: Misogyny Kills

Postby Mothra » Mon May 26, 2014 12:45 am

I'm sure there's a ton of overlap, but the idea is supposed to be that PUA's are SO macho that they see MRAs as weak by acknowledging women could have power of them.

User avatar
Mongrel
Posts: 11057
Joined: Mon Jan 20, 2014 6:28 pm
Location: Canadumb

Re: Misogyny Kills

Postby Mongrel » Mon May 26, 2014 1:17 am

Disposable Ninja wrote:


PUAs are not MRAs. I know it can be difficult to tell men in fedoras apart sometimes, but the two groups are not only separate, they actually kind of hate each other.

I think there was some confusion in earlier articles that he had been members of both communities at one time or another. Certainly he didn't join the Anti-PUA group until after he'd genuinely tried subscribing to PUA methods.

Anyway, it's obvious that he had much worse issues, god knows how they all piled on each other, overlapping and reinforcing each other. Or, to quote a friend more or less verbatim: "I'd be lying if I said the thought hadn't crossed my mind that maybe a lot of pain and suffering could have been averted with a couple hundred dollars and a hooker. But then I realized that that probably would have just ended with a lot of dead prostitutes."
Image

User avatar
Mothra
Woah Dangsaurus
Posts: 3331
Joined: Mon Jan 20, 2014 7:12 pm
Location: Boston, MA
Contact:

Re: Misogyny Kills

Postby Mothra » Mon May 26, 2014 1:50 am

Spram, if you're out there, thank you for never doing this.

User avatar
zaratustra
Posts: 1274
Joined: Mon Jan 20, 2014 6:45 pm

Re: Misogyny Kills

Postby zaratustra » Mon May 26, 2014 4:35 am

Disposable Ninja wrote:


PUAs are not MRAs. I know it can be difficult to tell men in fedoras apart sometimes, but the two groups are not only separate, they actually kind of hate each other.


I don't know about other MRA groups, but /r/mensrights' answer to the debacle was, as usual, to be deeply outraged at everyone and everything claiming they might be related to the problem, instead of actually reneging the issue.

User avatar
TA
Posts: 1784
Joined: Mon Jan 20, 2014 8:58 pm

Re: Misogyny Kills

Postby TA » Mon May 26, 2014 1:07 pm

Well, of course they would, yeah.

The PUAHate/Incel world is a bizarre one, but it's not MRA or even really PUA either. They subscribe to a lot of the same notions as PUAs, but from the other side - it's mostly about complaining that they're doomed to be "betas" forever because of how shallow and superficial women are. This guy got some press a while back for a previous iteration of his blog, in which he advocated that the government needs to start paying women to date him and those like him. Needless to say, he has Opinions about the shooting:
The kid was scum, and so were those he killed. Spoiled, stupid brats. I have no pity for, as one commentator said “blonde sorority sisters in Isla Vista”. These girls were bad, immoral trash. And so was he.
...
What happened is a proof that incel murders people. Society that will claim incel didn’t cause his pain is a sick society which thinks males should be ok with this hell. But don’t get me wrong, I don’t think many of you will be convinced. Sane people already knew that and insane ones never will. If you think I believe I somehow convinced more than 1 percent of the readers here you are incredibly naive. Modern “people” are utter scum and there is no way in hell they’ll ever see reason. Anybody who believes that they you will understand that it is incel which drove him to suicide is a fucking retard. Maybe 1 percent of intelligent people will understand this but others are just a waste of time.
Image

User avatar
Büge
Posts: 2876
Joined: Mon Jan 20, 2014 6:56 pm

Re: Misogyny Kills

Postby Büge » Tue May 27, 2014 9:22 am

I gotta shake my head at every pundit that hides behind the fact that he killed "twice as many men as women" to dismiss the idea that misogyny played a part in these murders. You know, because somebody on a blind killing rampage really keeps count.
Image

User avatar
Rico
Posts: 503
Joined: Tue Jan 21, 2014 2:29 am

Re: Misogyny Kills

Postby Rico » Tue May 27, 2014 11:34 am

@MaryTylerMog: Everyone: I guess we'll never know why he did it.
Shooter: I did it because I hate women.
Everyone: I guess we'll never know why he did it.

User avatar
Mongrel
Posts: 11057
Joined: Mon Jan 20, 2014 6:28 pm
Location: Canadumb

Re: Misogyny Kills

Postby Mongrel » Tue May 27, 2014 11:52 am

Alright. I'll throw myself on the barbecue.

I think that I would avoid rushing to a convenient answer like "misogyny!". If you read his material, you see that the man was severely mentally ill, just it was in such a way that it was not obvious until it exploded outward. He was painfully alienated and lonely and his ability to interact with people - any people - in a meaningful way seems terribly broken. He appears to have been massively entitled and quite possibly had serious narcissism issues. Plus god knows what else. I know people are saying stupid things like "He killed non-women so misogyny isn't to blame", but he also planned to kill his own brother for god's sake and I don't think reducing his problems to a single facet is accurate or helpful.

This was not a well man. Yes, misogyny was a part of his disease. But I think it's fair to say that there was a really toxic stew in that kid's skull.

EDIT: Now, if you want to talk about how the misogynist "community's" response to this is appalling, how they enabled him, and how they're horrible sub-human scum regardless of this situation. That seems completely fair and reasonable (and accurate) to me!
Image

User avatar
François
Posts: 1274
Joined: Tue Jan 21, 2014 8:00 am

Re: Misogyny Kills

Postby François » Tue May 27, 2014 1:04 pm

Nowadays, it doesn't matter how wrong you are, you can always find a large enough crowd of people who fanatically agree with you that it'll feel like you've been right all along.

User avatar
Brentai
Woah Dangsaurus
Posts: 2264
Joined: Mon Jan 20, 2014 2:40 pm

Re: Misogyny Kills

Postby Brentai » Tue May 27, 2014 1:07 pm

From my vantage point it seems like "Mental instability!" is the convenient answer to rush to. It's been the final, let's-not-delve-any-deeper-into-this answer for all these other occasions - the idea that we should do something with the mentally ill is not a politically volatile one, although there's probably a devil in the details between "Help Them" and "Put Them in a Concentration Camp" - and I feel like it's operating too much on the idea that sanity is a binary value determined at birth. Just because you and I are stable enough to not go shoot up Fashion Island today doesn't mean we can't get brain cancer, drink too much, or watch a jet engine fall on our mothers tomorrow.

Point being, the combination of misogyny, insanity and probably a couple other things collided in that kid's head that led to the deaths of Katherine Breann Cooper, Christoper Ross Michael-Martinez, Veronika Elizabeth Weiss, Cheng Yuan Hong, George Chen and Weihan Wang, and if we don't want to have to add more names to that list than we need to isolate and address these issues, all of them.

User avatar
Joxam
Imperisaurus Rex
Posts: 821
Joined: Mon Jan 20, 2014 11:23 pm

Re: Misogyny Kills

Postby Joxam » Tue May 27, 2014 1:11 pm

I think the point here is that MRA rhetoric is PERFECT enabling material for a severely mentally ill boy with crippling social issues to latch onto with disastrous results. It speaks to the heart of his illness without actually calling it to task or admitting that its a problem that needs to be dealt with. It enables it to be someone else's problem and in fact not an illness at all, all those whores just wont sleep with the nice guys so fuck 'em.
Image

User avatar
Mongrel
Posts: 11057
Joined: Mon Jan 20, 2014 6:28 pm
Location: Canadumb

Re: Misogyny Kills

Postby Mongrel » Tue May 27, 2014 1:19 pm

Joxam wrote:I think the point here is that MRA rhetoric is PERFECT enabling material for a severely mentally ill boy with crippling social issues to latch onto with disastrous results. It speaks to the heart of his illness without actually calling it to task or admitting that its a problem that needs to be dealt with. It enables it to be someone else's problem and in fact not an illness at all, all those whores just wont sleep with the nice guys so fuck 'em.

Yeah, I think this is 100% valid.

People having trouble and then turning to a warped and corrosive "community" that "supports" them, or to drugs, or to drink, or other forms of self-medication is a pretty established phenomenon.

Brentai wrote:From my vantage point it seems like "Mental instability!" is the convenient answer to rush to. It's been the final, let's-not-delve-any-deeper-into-this answer for all these other occasions - the idea that we should do something with the mentally ill is not a politically volatile one, although there's probably a devil in the details between "Help Them" and "Put Them in a Concentration Camp" - and I feel like it's operating too much on the idea that sanity is a binary value determined at birth. Just because you and I are stable enough to not go shoot up Fashion Island today doesn't mean we can't get brain cancer, drink too much, or watch a jet engine fall on our mothers tomorrow.

Point being, the combination of misogyny, insanity and probably a couple other things collided in that kid's head that led to the deaths of Katherine Breann Cooper, Christoper Ross Michael-Martinez, Veronika Elizabeth Weiss, Cheng Yuan Hong, George Chen and Weihan Wang, and if we don't want to have to add more names to that list than we need to isolate and address these issues, all of them.

Well, I don't think "Mental instability!" is a convenient catch-all either, but as much as I ramble on and and make lengthy Abe-Simpson-esque posts, I didn't want to have a giant sidebar on the permutations of mental illness in my post.

My main point is that this guy had all sorts of things going on.
Image

User avatar
Mongrel
Posts: 11057
Joined: Mon Jan 20, 2014 6:28 pm
Location: Canadumb

Re: Misogyny Kills

Postby Mongrel » Tue May 27, 2014 9:24 pm

Image

User avatar
Mongrel
Posts: 11057
Joined: Mon Jan 20, 2014 6:28 pm
Location: Canadumb

Re: Misogyny Kills

Postby Mongrel » Wed May 28, 2014 11:29 am

So it turns out The Onion is actually completely wrong.

The fact that this is happening all over is actually pretty interesting. In a rather morbid way.
Image

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot], Google [Bot] and 1 guest