Barefoot and Pregnant

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Thad
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Re: Barefoot and Pregnant

Postby Thad » Mon Oct 09, 2017 1:28 am

The Weinstein Company has one less Weinstein; Harvey's been voted out following a New York Times story titled Harvey Weinstein Paid Off Sexual Harassment Accusers for Decades.

He's hired Charles Harder and is suing the New York Times for defamation. As always with a Charles Harder defamation suit, the point is not to win on the merits, it's to harass and intimidate. The Times will be fine; the point here isn't to do any real damage to the Times, it's to serve as a warning to other news outlets that don't have the New York Times' resources that they'd better not fuck with guys like Harvey Weinstein. (Techdirt recently had a story noting that several outlets rejected the recent story alleging R Kelly is keeping women in a cult-like environment, and explicitly mentioned Gawker's bankruptcy as a reason they didn't want to bring down legal action from a guy with enough money to ruin them.)

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Re: Barefoot and Pregnant

Postby Mongrel » Wed Oct 11, 2017 2:22 pm

Re: Weinstein

The Guardian: Terry Crews said he was sexually assaulted by a male Hollywood executive

...that, uh.... that seems rather risky on the sexual assaulter's part.
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Joxam
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Re: Barefoot and Pregnant

Postby Joxam » Wed Oct 11, 2017 2:27 pm

Why, you think a black man can just kick rich white dude's ass for touching him? Hell Crews even says that he wouldnt even have been able to see the headlines about a huge black man kicking a fragile white man's ass the next day because hed be in jail.
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Re: Barefoot and Pregnant

Postby Joxam » Wed Oct 11, 2017 2:33 pm

Also, do you LIKE often coming off as the least introspective person on these boards? Like not only are you implying overtly that you dont understands the power dynamic in play between rich white people and minorities they essentially think of as their servents but you're also going to subtly imply a 6'4" black man is quick to violence.

EDIT: I want you to know that i dont think you are this unintrospective. I just feel like you make comments so that when someone else states the obvious you can then agree with him.
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Re: Barefoot and Pregnant

Postby Mongrel » Wed Oct 11, 2017 2:51 pm

I don't think I'm the one lacking introspection here.

Come on, black or white or purple or fucking paisley, a guy walks down the street - or even your boss at work! - grabs your balls totally at random, most men will at least THINK about decking the guy, ESPECIALLY if they're smaller than you. You don't need a predisposition to violence to think about violence in response to extreme provocation and it's pretty gross that you're accusing me of that, frankly. And - as you said! - it says right there in the article that Crews thought about it.

I can find Crews actions extremely relatable, because I too would have the same initial reaction and I couldn't say if I'd actually respond physically or not. In all likelihood, with a high-paying job on the line like Crews had (has), again, I too would probably have done nothing.

Black or white, I don't think that an exec choosing to fondle a large, ex-football player in public, in front of his wife, carries no risk. In fact that risk was probably the whole point. Obviously the exec in question got a thrill from abusing the power dynamic to get away with it and if there's no risk, there's no thrill. It's very probable that there was an additional layer of racism in there too, as you say, but in this case "Black man" is a secondary (or at most, equal) consideration after "Huge man".

I thought Crews' own words would make it clear enough that all that would go without saying, but I guess not.
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Re: Barefoot and Pregnant

Postby Joxam » Wed Oct 11, 2017 3:10 pm

My point is all of your answers are right in the post, like sure it was risky, he might start catching fists, that risk is NOTHING compaired to the risk to Crews' career, freedom and public image and you know this. I cant believe you live in a world where you dont. I want you to be at least that understanding. At that point then, if the actual post you linked had the answers to your questions in them, why ask them? So we can give you an answer ("He was black and felt it would harm him to react") and then you can agree?

Thats the thing I'm taking issue with, questions like this can come off as implying things about you that I'm sure you dont want and all I'm trying to do is inform you of that.

Like sure, if you want to come off as ignorant to black racial power dynamics with people of power, fine I guess.

Also that stupid fucking "you're the real racist" bullshit you're trying to pull is infuriating. I said you CAME OFF as unintrospective and even said I didnt think you actually were.

EDIT: Also sorry about what I'm sure are a lot of spelling mistakes my phone just stopped fucking spell checking and I don't know why and I can't fix it because I don't know what is wrong to fix.
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Re: Barefoot and Pregnant

Postby Mongrel » Wed Oct 11, 2017 3:21 pm

I already said it Jox, there isn't really anything I can add.

First that I would have felt the same way and probably done the same thing as Crews, so I don't know what else I could do to better appreciate the position he was put in. He's a man and I'm a man and that's my gut reaction. Adding race to the equation is something that is an extra step for me (but one I did take in this case, if you can believe that).

Second, that the fact of the assault itself almost certainly implicitly means there was a risk, so it's fair for me to describe it as such.

Joxam wrote:"you're the really racist"


Not everything I type is some secret fucking code that reveals my deepest inner thought processes, Jox. Sometimes I'm just slinging an angry word back at the guy who angrily tossed it at me in the first place.

I don't have the inclination to spend hours considering every possible uncharitable interpretation of my telling off someone telling me off.
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Re: Barefoot and Pregnant

Postby Lyrai » Wed Oct 11, 2017 8:10 pm

Speaking as someone who lived in the south for a very long time, and then later went fuck it, time to study this shit, there is a great chance that the dude figured there was no risk. Huge dude or not, Terry Crews was, in fact, black, and he was a white executive used to paying off problems, or possibly seeing black people as chattel.

America is hella racist. Like super, super racist. There's a shitload of pictures of dudes dressed up for halloween, "or just because" dressed like the fattest Y'all Qaeda there is and cops are openly laughing and not feeling the least bit threatened. Meanwhile a 12 year old with a nerf gun gets 7 warning shots in the back.

This dude totally did it because he knew Crews couldn't do shit without getting his career destroyed because, as Crews himself said, "Black man [...] white victim" is an absolute death sentence, regardless of absolutely everything else.

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Re: Barefoot and Pregnant

Postby Mongrel » Wed Oct 11, 2017 9:11 pm

I'm not saying there was no racial element to it. It can be both.

There's three different reasons the exec could have done this.

1 - He's genuinely turned on by fondling other guys' junk in public.
2 - There's a thrill of risk-taking in not knowing if he was gonna get laid the fuck out or not
3 - There's a thrill of dominance in asserting his position over Crews, including that of race

I just figure it's some mixture of 2 and 3.

I guess there's also "My buddy bet me twenty grand I wouldn't grab Terry Crews' junk", but really I think that's just restating 2 & 3 again, only with more people involved.
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Re: Barefoot and Pregnant

Postby Thad » Thu Oct 12, 2017 10:40 am

While Crews's story is brave and extremely relevant, it does feel a little uncomfortable to me that we've now spent a lot more time talking about a man being assaulted than any of the women who were harassed or assaulted by Weinstein.

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Re: Barefoot and Pregnant

Postby Thad » Thu Oct 12, 2017 11:54 am

Rose McGowan suspended from Twitter after vocal criticism of Ben Affleck, Bob Weinstein, and others who've shielded Harvey for decades.

Not a good look, Twitter, but I'm willing to call Hanlon's Razor on this. Twitter is absolutely terrible at enforcing harassment policy, and whatever low-level guys are in charge of making the calls have always done a poor job of recognizing context. (I find it very easy to believe that a few thousand Affleck fans clicked the flag button on the "fuck off" tweet, unprompted, and some twelve-dollar-an-hour contractor at Twitter said "Yep, this is a violation, all right" without knowing or caring about the context.) This isn't the first time a victim has been suspended for talking about abuse, and it won't be the last.

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Re: Barefoot and Pregnant

Postby Brentai » Thu Oct 12, 2017 12:00 pm

That'd work, if Twitter being too quick to respond to reports of abuse was the rule and not a very curious exception.

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Re: Barefoot and Pregnant

Postby Thad » Thu Oct 12, 2017 12:05 pm

Seems like if thousands came in all at once about a tweet directed at a celebrity, it'd be likelier, but I don't Twitter so I could be totally wrong. (Odds of some mod knowing who Affleck is but not McGowan seem pretty high to me.)

But on the other hand, it wouldn't surprise me in the least if Twitter's investors included some of the people McGowan's been talking about.

ETA: I've seen a lot of stories on Techdirt about Twitter mistakenly punishing a victim discussing abuse instead of the abuser (and often after being reported by the abuser); I've gotta run but I'll try and remember to post some links later.

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Re: Barefoot and Pregnant

Postby Thad » Thu Oct 12, 2017 1:04 pm

Here are a few of the previous examples I was thinking of:

Facebook, Twitter Consistently Fail At Distinguishing Abuse From Calling Out Abuse
Twitter Suspends Reporter's Account... After He Gets Targeted By Russian Twitter Bots
Twitter Suspends Popehat For Writing About Violent Threats He Received From Another Twitter User

McGowan's suspension seems to me like it's totally in keeping with Twitter's prior failures to distinguish abuse from discussions of abuse, and victims from perpetrators.

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Re: Barefoot and Pregnant

Postby Mongrel » Thu Oct 12, 2017 1:39 pm

Whatever the reason, I think we can all agree that Twitter's "moderation" is a fucking joke.
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Re: Barefoot and Pregnant

Postby TA » Sat Oct 14, 2017 3:32 pm

のほも is such a good word?? the concept is kind of hard to fully get across in translation, but basically it means a feeling of pure, deep, platonic affection, and i think thats beautiful

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Re: Barefoot and Pregnant

Postby Friday » Sun Oct 15, 2017 3:14 pm

It is really, really peculiar to me how people react to sexual crime, especially pedophilia. The victim blaming thing doesn't just apply to women, but also men, children, etc.

Barbara Walter's "you're damaging an entire industry" response to Corey Feldman talking about how he was sexually abused as a child by powerful people in the Hollywood Business isn't an anomaly, or a rarity, or an uncommon event, but rather the dirt common typical response to victims speaking out ever, anywhere. You saw it in Sandusky (you're damaging an entire football industry/college), with the Catholic Church (come on now, the Catholic Church does a lot of good work, do you really wanna damage their image this way) and I've seen it personally, from people I looked up to and thought of as intelligent, when my local church had a rapist. (We don't want to damage the image of the local church).

There's also, of course, the whole "don't ruin this man's life! He has a promising career of raping drunk passed out women ahead of him! Wait, football. I meant football. What'd I say? Shit."

So we get the trifecta of rapist enablers.

1. The person who was raped was at fault, really, if you think about it.
2. The institution the rapist belonged to will have its image damaged if we stop the rapist from raping. We should, instead, allow the rapist to continue raping.
3. Have you considered the life of the rapist? If they're stopped, they'll go to jail and their life will be ruined. Can you image that, ruining a life, just because of a lot of repeated, consistent rape?

Why?

What the fuck?

No, seriously. This behavior perplexes me.

I understand rape! Rape totally makes sense to me. I look at rape and rapists and I nod and go "yep, that's totally understandable, if despicable."

But the people who enable it, it's like

what the fuck? How can you possibly weigh "damage to football" and "child rape" and side with child rape?

I really fucking fail to grasp how a human being can do that.

And as we can see, from Miss Big Bang Theory above, that even "smart" people can do this shit. It's not a function of being a stupid idiot. I used to think that, you know, they were just ignorant retards. But nope! People with critical thinking skills do this!
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Re: Barefoot and Pregnant

Postby TA » Sun Oct 15, 2017 4:35 pm

The takes in this article are just ... baffling. "Hearing how all these pretty girls get raped just reminds me how much I'm not one of the pretty girls, since I didn't." "I choose dress modestly and don't flirt, and decided my sexual self is for my private life only, and am apparently unable to acknowledge that sexual assault is about taking choices like that away." "ps let me plug my blog site and tell you that being pretty on camera is your own fault."
のほも is such a good word?? the concept is kind of hard to fully get across in translation, but basically it means a feeling of pure, deep, platonic affection, and i think thats beautiful

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Friday
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Re: Barefoot and Pregnant

Postby Friday » Sun Oct 15, 2017 4:58 pm

Well, yeah. She also takes a subject about child rape and somehow twists that into an article about herself and how she feels bad because she's not traditionally pretty, boo hoo.

Okay, Miss Big Bang. We get it. You're a fucking dipshit.
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Re: Barefoot and Pregnant

Postby Hardly Ideal » Sun Oct 15, 2017 5:07 pm

When they blame victims for how they were dressed, I often hear it compared to someone getting mugged after flashing a bunch of hundred dollar bills. But I don't remember seeing anyone on Facebook or Twitter imploring us to think of the poor thief's future in that case.
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