Arizona is a blasted hellscape

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Mongrel
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Re: Arizona is a blasted hellscape

Postby Mongrel » Thu Aug 17, 2017 1:29 pm

Well, while that makes rotting less likely, it would at least make a pardon much funnier.
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atog
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Re: Arizona is a blasted hellscape

Postby atog » Sat Aug 19, 2017 1:22 pm



edit: thanks Mongrel
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Re: Arizona is a blasted hellscape

Postby McDohl » Wed Aug 23, 2017 1:43 pm

Reports are coming out that the White House has paperwork ready to pardon Joe Arpaio.

Sure can't wait for Joe to set up his concentration camps for all of Pissbaby's political enemies.

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Re: Arizona is a blasted hellscape

Postby Thad » Thu Aug 24, 2017 1:35 am

I didn't make it out to the rally/protest last night; we had a going-away dinner for my cousin, who's bound for NAU tomorrow. (Can't believe it's 17 years since I made that trip. Christ, she was a year old then.) I guess she wanted to try and squeeze in both the dinner and the protest; had a gas mask packed and everything but her older brother talked her out of it. The girl's a pistol and I think she's gonna do fine.

Anyway, sounds like the protest went well, compared to what we've come to expect at this point. An article at AZ Central indicates that we don't know exactly how many protesters there were, but there were probably more of them than people who showed up to the rally. (Trump has variously said there were 15,000 or 20,000 at the rally. The fire marshall says about 5,100.)

The Phoenix police eventually dispersed the protesters with tear gas, flashbang grenades, and pepper bombs. No serious injuries; only two people hospitalized, and that was for heatstroke.

The police claim that Antifa provoked their reaction, that they threw a pepper bomb first. Protesters, including my city councilman David Schapira, have disputed that account, claiming that the police attacked the crowd without warning or provocation. (I heard a reporter on NPR this morning saying that she saw some of the protesters throwing water bottles, one of which hit another reporter in the face, but that she never saw anybody throw rocks or a pepper bomb.)

I find it very easy to believe that the police used excessive force. But I'm relieved that it didn't get any worse than it did.

Perhaps the biggest change was listening to Sheriff Penzone discuss it on the radio -- he laid the blame neither at the Phoenix PD's feet nor the protesters', but squarely at Trump's, agreeing with Phoenix Mayor Greg Stanton that Trump should not have held a rally here so soon after Charlottesville.

Shit's not perfect here, but the difference in tone and rhetoric from the sheriff's office is a real breath of fresh air.

And Penzone went on to echo my sentiments about the prospective Arpaio pardon: whatever happens, the voters have spoken, and the good guys have won. Arpaio won't get the justice he deserves (like I said, even without a pardon he's looking at six months, tops), and we the taxpayers are still on the hook for tens of millions of dollars, so as victories go, it's pretty pyrrhic. But damn it, we kicked him out of office, and not by a slim margin. He's gone, and he's never coming back, and a pardon won't change that.

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Mongrel
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Re: Arizona is a blasted hellscape

Postby Mongrel » Fri Aug 25, 2017 8:30 pm

Arpaio pardoned.

Thad's right, but that doesn't make it sting any less. Fuck.
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TA
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Re: Arizona is a blasted hellscape

Postby TA » Fri Aug 25, 2017 8:31 pm

Waited until hurricane landfall to do it, too. That and sign the transgender military ban.
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Re: Arizona is a blasted hellscape

Postby Büge » Sat Aug 26, 2017 12:43 am

Great start to the weekend. =__=

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Re: Arizona is a blasted hellscape

Postby Thad » Sat Aug 26, 2017 12:46 am

Mongrel wrote:Arpaio pardoned.

Thad's right, but that doesn't make it sting any less. Fuck.


If there's anything that makes it sting less, it's that this means somebody talked him out of doing it at the rally on Tuesday. There would have been a riot.

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Re: Arizona is a blasted hellscape

Postby TA » Sat Aug 26, 2017 2:58 am

Thad wrote:
Mongrel wrote:Arpaio pardoned.

Thad's right, but that doesn't make it sting any less. Fuck.


If there's anything that makes it sting less, it's that this means somebody talked him out of doing it at the rally on Tuesday. There would have been a riot.


Yes, he wanted the smokescreen of a category 4 hurricane hitting on a Friday.
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Re: Arizona is a blasted hellscape

Postby Thad » Sat Aug 26, 2017 1:06 pm

Well, somebody did. I don't think Trump much cares about smokescreens (at least, ones not involving Russia), and he'd have loved the reaction he'd have gotten by announcing the pardon in front of the type of crowd that attends a Trump rally in Phoenix.

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Grath
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Re: Arizona is a blasted hellscape

Postby Grath » Sat Aug 26, 2017 2:04 pm

One theory I'd heard was that this was him showing Manafort and Flynn that he'd pardon them if they didn't flip.

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Re: Arizona is a blasted hellscape

Postby Thad » Sat Aug 26, 2017 3:57 pm

Maybe, but that requires him not understanding that if he pardons them, they can be compelled to testify against him. You can't plead the Fifth if you're already immune from prosecution.

Granted, there's still plenty of room for "I don't recall" under those circumstances. And of course "Trump doesn't understand how courts work" is demonstrably true.

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Re: Arizona is a blasted hellscape

Postby Thad » Thu Aug 31, 2017 11:14 am

'We believe in the system': Attorneys stage lunchtime protest of Trump's pardon of Joe Arpaio

Former Arizona Attorney General Grant Woods said neither Trump nor Arpaio were true conservatives.

“It’s not conservative to abuse the Constitution, and to call people heroes who abuse the Constitution and the rights of American citizens,” Woods said. "It's not conservative to applaud the rule of law and then, when judges act on the rule of law, you go after them personally."

Woods said Trump was incorrect in saying the former sheriff was well-liked in Arizona.

“The sheriff was taken out of office by the voters," he said. "He lost big. Bigly.”


I like Woods. I've always respected him as a thoughtful and principled conservative, and I always read what he has to say when his name comes up in the arguments "for" or "against" a ballot initiative.

Joe Arpaio saga isn't over: Judge to decide if his conviction stands

However, Bolton on Tuesday stopped short of throwing out the conviction based solely on Arpaio's request. Instead she ordered Arpaio and the U.S. Department of Justice, which is prosecuting the case, to file briefs on why she should or shouldn't grant Arpaio's request.

[...]

There is case law that says a pardon implies an admission of guilt, and that will have to be argued in open court.


I don't expect this to end with anything but Arpaio's conviction being quickly vacated, but we live in crazy enough times that I can't completely rule out the possibility that we'll eventually be looking at a Supreme Court case on the limits of pardon power based on a fucking misdemeanor conviction. Likelier than that, though, is that Bolton can provoke Trump into another rant against the judiciary, which isn't going to do much to improve his approval rating or his reputation among judges.

Kim Nalder, professor of political science at California State University-Sacramento, said misreporting by the media of Arpaio's conviction threatens to deepen mistrust of the media.

"It's key that the details be very particular," she said. "In this case, there may be a blurring of the lines between 'contempt of court' and 'convicted for racist conduct.' "

Nalder said the press must be accurate or else "people who are already dismissive of the coverage ... could consider the media 'fake news,' " a popular Trump label of the media.


Yes, he was convicted for contempt of court. Because he kept racially profiling people after a court told him to stop.

The only people who are going to call this "fake news" are, well, the sort of people who call things "fake news".

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Re: Arizona is a blasted hellscape

Postby Thad » Thu Aug 31, 2017 12:03 pm

I wrote a letter to the editor:

The 8/30 article "Joe Arpaio saga isn't over: Judge to decide if his conviction stands" says this:

[same section I quoted in the previous post]

With all due respect to Professor Nalder, that's nonsense. Arapio was convicted of criminal contempt because he continued to engage in racial profiling after a judge ordered him to stop.

I appreciate that the distinction between "convicted of racial profiling" and "convicted of contempt because he racially profiled" is important to lawyers and judges. But if a reporter uses the former phrase instead of the latter, it does not substantially change the meaning of the story. Professor Nalder is splitting hairs.

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Re: Arizona is a blasted hellscape

Postby Thad » Fri Sep 29, 2017 10:48 am

Sinema announces candidacy for Flake's seat.

Flake's the most vulnerable Republican in the Senate, and she's got a good shot.

She's my rep, and, well, she's an Arizona Democrat; she's far from perfect, and I sure wish she'd spend half as much time criticizing Trump as she did Obama. But that's the game, and hopefully it'll serve her well in getting bipartisan support next year.

...which, come to think of it, also means we've got a chance to vote somebody more liberal in to her current seat. Hm. I'd been planning to vote in the Republican primary again (mostly for Flake; I don't want to see him win in the general, but better him than Ward), but maybe I'd be better off going D this time. I'll keep an eye on the polls, I guess, and see where it looks like I can do the most good. Which is probably the district-level position rather than the state-level one.

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Re: Arizona is a blasted hellscape

Postby Thad » Fri Oct 06, 2017 10:22 am

Phoenix mayor Greg Stanton is running for Sinema's House seat.

I like Stanton. He stood up to Arpaio and he's standing up to Trump. I hope Phoenix gets a new mayor who's as good as he's been (he's term-limited out anyway; running for Congress means leaving office a few months early, but only a few months), and I'll be happy to have him as my rep.

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Re: Arizona is a blasted hellscape

Postby Thad » Fri Oct 20, 2017 11:51 am

Judge Bolton upholds Arpaio's conviction. He won't face any punishment, but he's still a convicted criminal.

Arpaio's appealing, of course.

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