Insane in the Ukraine

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Z%rø
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Insane in the Ukraine

Postby Z%rø » Wed Jan 22, 2014 10:18 pm

So there's been a lot of shit going down in the Ukraine. To summarize:

In November, there were two deals on the table. One to join up with the EU, the other to deal with Russia. The leader of the Ukraine, against the will of the majority, picked Russia. [1]("Ukraine, Russia sign economic deal despite protests")

Since then there have been protests, mostly peaceful? Although they have come to a head due to hardcore, Orwellian anti-demonstration laws. Large Infographic explaining the restrictions.

The shit has really hit the fan, however, because a text message was sent to all of those demonstrating that stated "Dear subscriber, you are registered as a participant in a mass disturbance."

There have been two reported deaths from being shot by police, as well as disappearances from hospitals.

Quoting from this article:
Speaking at a mass rally, Mr Klitschko said the president could end the stand-off "without bloodshed" by calling early elections, but that "tomorrow, if the president does not respond... then we will go on the attack", to roars of approval from the crowd.



Now, the reason I compiled these bits of information is because it's been a lot of stuff going on that I only took notice of because this is a revolt that is being livestreamed.
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Re: Insane in the Ukraine

Postby Mongrel » Wed Jan 22, 2014 10:36 pm

Ukraine is a very ugly situation. The root is that Russia has repeatedly tried to kill off the Ukrainians since the Russian Revolution (minus a period of relative acceptance in the 1920's). Over time, depopulated areas were repopulated with ethnic Russians (especially in Eastern Ukraine). So even though Ukraine is nominally independent, there's a significant minority (30%? 40%?) that sees themselves as entirely Russian - not just ethnically, but politically, etc. too.

Right now, the guy in office is one of those, in part due to recent SUSPICIOUS SHENANIGANS, so that makes things much worse.
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Re: Insane in the Ukraine

Postby Bal » Wed Jan 22, 2014 11:13 pm

Man, we're never going to get S.T.A.L.K.E.R. 2

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Re: Insane in the Ukraine

Postby Brentai » Wed Jan 22, 2014 11:55 pm

At first I thought "Man it's like they actually want this to devolve into rioting" but then I realized that there is a possibility that they may actually want this to devolve into rioting.

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Re: Insane in the Ukraine

Postby Sharkey » Thu Jan 23, 2014 6:31 pm

Not to be nitpicky, but it's just "Ukraine," not "the Ukraine." Doesn't normally matter that much, but yeah, you'll piss off Ukrainians calling it that, not least because it's perceived to sideline Ukrainian statehood, which is particularly relevant right now.

Also kind of funny, given that definitive articles don't exist in the Ukrainian language.

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When rioters are building motherfucking trebuchets you know shit just got real.

That, or the angry birds LARP got out of hand.
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Re: Insane in the Ukraine

Postby Mongrel » Thu Jan 23, 2014 9:51 pm

Sharkey wrote:Not to be nitpicky, but it's just "Ukraine," not "the Ukraine."


Right after independence in '91, '92, or whenever, the new Ukrainian government actually made a formal request at the UN to ask everyone guys can you please stop doing that.

Which is kind of a shame, because in English The Ukraine sounds about ten times cooler. But anyway it's their name not ours.
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Brentai
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Re: Insane in the Ukraine

Postby Brentai » Thu Jan 23, 2014 11:56 pm

It's probably a little bit harder for residents of The United States of America to resolve, but not a lot, since the only other "The" country in the world is apparently (The United Republic of) Tanzania. USA's got a pretty weird naming structure, anyway... in any other part of the world "The United States of America" would refer to a country named America, which is a federation of united states, but here if you call the country just "America" you'll probably get some pedant snarkily asking you if you meant North America or South America. Because there's no such precedent as South Africa, Africa or Australia, Australia. For some reason I've been thinking about this a lot lately, because it's a weird sort of existential feeling to not be exactly sure what your home nation's name is actually supposed to be.

What's that? Oh, yeah, Ukraine. Coconuts be pineappled yo.

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Bal
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Re: Insane in the Ukraine

Postby Bal » Fri Jan 24, 2014 12:15 am

Actually, in most places a State is a country, so The United States of America sounds more like an alliance of countries in America than it does a single country.

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Re: Insane in the Ukraine

Postby Niku » Fri Jan 24, 2014 12:51 am

as a texan, i
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Re: Insane in the Ukraine

Postby Mongrel » Fri Jan 24, 2014 1:44 am

I've... never heard an American get snarky about their country being called America before.

I mean MURRIKA and all.

After all, there are not other countries besides America anyway, so what's the confusion?
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Re: Insane in the Ukraine

Postby TA » Fri Jan 24, 2014 2:10 am

It's usually Canadians who trot out that tired bullshit about "USAians" and suchlike.

It's not complicated. United States of America. Federal Republic of Germany. Republic of Poland. Republic of South Africa. People's Democratic Republic of Algeria. Commonwealth of Australia. Republic of the Union of Myanmar. Kingdom of Denmark. State of Israel. The majority of countries have their official names in the format of <government type> of <country name>. The Dominion of Canada, Canada for short. The United States of America, America for short. The United Mexican States, Mexico for short.
のほも is such a good word?? the concept is kind of hard to fully get across in translation, but basically it means a feeling of pure, deep, platonic affection, and i think thats beautiful

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Re: Insane in the Ukraine

Postby Mongrel » Fri Jan 24, 2014 2:25 am

Actually I'm not sure we've been a Dominion since 1982.
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Re: Insane in the Ukraine

Postby Büge » Fri Jan 24, 2014 8:11 am

We still answer to the Queen.

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Re: Insane in the Ukraine

Postby MarsDragon » Fri Jan 24, 2014 11:08 am

TA wrote:It's usually Canadians who trot out that tired bullshit about "USAians" and suchlike.


Really? I usually hear it from South Americans. Supposedly 'USian' sounds better in Spanish and that's why we should use it in English even though it sounds completely terrible there.

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Re: Insane in the Ukraine

Postby Sharkey » Fri Jan 24, 2014 5:25 pm

Brentai wrote:the only other "The" country in the world is apparently (The United Republic of) Tanzania.


Actually, the only countries with a definitive article officially included in the name (not including The Bluhbluh of Bluh) are The Bahamas and The Gambia. Seriously.
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Brentai
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Re: Insane in the Ukraine

Postby Brentai » Fri Jan 24, 2014 9:57 pm

You do not want The Gambia.

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Re: Insane in the Ukraine

Postby Büge » Fri Feb 28, 2014 2:40 pm


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Re: Insane in the Ukraine

Postby Mongrel » Fri Feb 28, 2014 3:32 pm

Whether or not they're Russo-Ukranian militias or straight up Russian troops, I'm pretty sure they're under Putin's control, but are "unlabelled" so that he has plausible deniability if shit goes south.

To me, the more interesting thing is that Ukraine is calling on the US and Britain to help them pressure Russia into abiding by the 1994 independence agreement (to which the US and Britain are signatories), which specifically guarantees the Ukrainian territorial boundaries set at that time.
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Re: Insane in the Ukraine

Postby Mongrel » Fri Feb 28, 2014 5:33 pm

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Re: Insane in the Ukraine

Postby Z%rø » Fri Feb 28, 2014 7:29 pm

Russia wants control of that area because of their naval base. Having Ukraine become part of the EU (or just more western leaning) turns that into a problematic situation.

Optimistic: Russia gains control the Crimea region then they can keep it and Ukraine keeps its independence. Of course this isn't the best for the indigenous people of the region who were previously persecuted by Stalin, but it doesn't lead us to war.

Pessimistic: It doesn't stop with Crimea.
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