Oh shit, what are we gonna do now?

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Mongrel
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Re: Oh shit, what are we gonna do now?

Postby Mongrel » Thu Jan 24, 2019 4:28 pm



do it do it do it
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Bal
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Re: Oh shit, what are we gonna do now?

Postby Bal » Thu Jan 24, 2019 10:38 pm

Eat shit, Ted


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Thad
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Re: Oh shit, what are we gonna do now?

Postby Thad » Thu Jan 24, 2019 11:35 pm

Both budget bills fail cloture votes in the Senate; notably, the version without wall funding got more votes than the one with.

Democrats indicated privately that they would not accept a first installment of wall funding as a condition of reopening the government. But some emphasized that they shared the president’s goal of adding security measures at the border, as long as he would first agree to end the shutdown, and House Democrats were circulating proposals for a “smart wall,” with drones, sensors and some additional fencing, but no edifice from the Pacific to the Gulf of Mexico.


That...sounds an awful lot like "Let's see if we can convince him to accept something that's not a wall and just call it a wall and claim victory." Which...okay, that might jibe with Trump's reasoning process, such as it is.

Meanwhile, uh.



And then there's SNAP and everything else that's not getting funded that could mean life or death.

Trump's approval rating has started falling steadily since the shutdown began. I hope that puts more pressure on Republicans to start standing up to him -- and I hope it happens before we have a plane crash, a salmonella outbreak, or a financial crisis.

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Mongrel
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Re: Oh shit, what are we gonna do now?

Postby Mongrel » Fri Jan 25, 2019 6:00 pm

Trump blinks, allowing temporary truce in the shutdown.
Trump stepped out on the white house lawn and saw his shadow, that means 3 more weeks of government
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Blossom
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Re: Oh shit, what are we gonna do now?

Postby Blossom » Fri Jan 25, 2019 6:20 pm

yeah uh




government turning back on is good, but the conditions for it ain't a win.
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Mongrel
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Re: Oh shit, what are we gonna do now?

Postby Mongrel » Fri Jan 25, 2019 6:37 pm

I thought the latest deal had dropped any border stuff for both sides?

I could easily be wrong here as the articles I've seen didn't mention the specifics.
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Thad
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Re: Oh shit, what are we gonna do now?

Postby Thad » Fri Jan 25, 2019 6:38 pm

TA wrote:yeah uh




government turning back on is good, but the conditions for it ain't a win.

I'm not aware of any concessions from the Democrats as yet except that they'll debate some sort of border security measure or other, and possibly let Trump deliver the State of the Union.

They could still fuck this up -- they're Democrats -- but "three weeks of funding and then he shuts it down again" seems like the likely outcome. And I'll agree that's not really a win, but it's at least better than staying closed for those three weeks.

Cait
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Re: Oh shit, what are we gonna do now?

Postby Cait » Sun Jan 27, 2019 8:55 am

Yeah the deal is literally "We'll listen while you talk."

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Mongrel
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Re: Oh shit, what are we gonna do now?

Postby Mongrel » Fri Feb 15, 2019 10:24 pm

So the spurious declaration of a bogus state of emergency obviously has the potential to take the US across another red line, a really big one, if he's allowed to get away with it.

One HOPES that the Democratic majority congress will do everything they can to rescind the declaration (as I understand it, Congress can force the a rescension of a DoE? Does that have to pass the senate?)

The real question everyone needs to worry about is that if this reaches SCOTUS, how will each Justice vote? Trump already has a pocket vote from Mister Brett "I like beer" Kavanaugh, we know, so we'd better pray that some of the older Republican Justices can still see this sort of thing as a red line.

I don't know. Do you guys think any of them could potentially vote against this?
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Grath
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Re: Oh shit, what are we gonna do now?

Postby Grath » Fri Feb 15, 2019 10:28 pm

I mean, he's already admitted that it's not necessary and he's just doing it because he's a petulant child, so that's gonna bite him when he gets sued over this.

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nosimpleway
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Re: Oh shit, what are we gonna do now?

Postby nosimpleway » Fri Feb 15, 2019 10:29 pm

If this jackhole is allowed steal money for his idiotic pet project, as I understand it there's nothing stopping some other jackhole later on from circumventing congress to pass legislation that's actually popular with the majority of voters.

Ya know. I'd call our national healthcare system a crisis.

It's probably a crisis how much gun violence happens nationwide.

:thinking emoji:

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Mongrel
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Re: Oh shit, what are we gonna do now?

Postby Mongrel » Fri Feb 15, 2019 10:31 pm

nosimpleway wrote:If this jackhole is allowed steal money for his idiotic pet project, as I understand it there's nothing stopping some other jackhole later on from circumventing congress to pass legislation that's actually popular with the majority of voters.

Ya know. I'd call our national healthcare system a crisis.

It's probably a crisis how much gun violence happens nationwide.

:thinking emoji:


We've already seen what happened when Obama was allowed to continue and cement the Bush-era civil rights destruction.

"When OUR guy wins it'll be OUR turn to abuse the system!" has not, and never will be, a solution to abuse of power by the executive.

(Of course of you're just taking the piss or being sarcastic, then no worries... but :notsureifserious: )
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Thad
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Re: Oh shit, what are we gonna do now?

Postby Thad » Fri Feb 15, 2019 11:54 pm

I think it's a pretty good argument for why the courts would want to rein it in, no matter how partisan SCOTUS is and no matter how much the conservative majority loves executive power. Letting the president circumvent Congress's authority to determine what money goes where is a pretty serious violation of the principle of separation of powers -- and yes, it's obvious that such a precedent wouldn't go so well for conservatives the next time a Democrat took office.

You never fucking know how far this court will go, and I've been wrong often enough to consider that I must be a secret optimist. But this seems like a pretty open-and-shut case of an unconstitutional power-grab. Even by Trump's standards.

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nosimpleway
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Re: Oh shit, what are we gonna do now?

Postby nosimpleway » Sat Feb 16, 2019 12:44 am

The comment is half-serious. Having an executive branch that can circumvent checks and balances whenever they feel like it is, God help us all, quite possibly the event that will get congress and the judiciary to check or perhaps balance.

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zaratustra
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Re: Oh shit, what are we gonna do now?

Postby zaratustra » Sat Feb 16, 2019 5:35 am

Mongrel wrote:"When OUR guy wins it'll be OUR turn to abuse the system!" has not, and never will be, a solution to abuse of power by the executive.


plus Mitch McConnell will just play interference non-stop so

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Thad
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Re: Oh shit, what are we gonna do now?

Postby Thad » Mon Feb 18, 2019 12:42 pm

If this [url=https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/could-congress-block-trumps-emergency-declaration/]Perry Bacon article[/url] is correct, Congress needs a veto-proof majority to override a presidential declaration of emergency. While it's entirely possible that the Senate could remain Republican even if a Democrat wins in 2020, there's no realistic scenario where a Democrat wins the presidency and the Republicans win a 2/3 majority in both houses of Congress.

That said, I still think this is going to be smacked down by the courts, not Congress.

(I think Pelosi probably will bring it to a vote in the House, but that will be more of a political move -- force Republicans on record supporting one of the most unpopular things Trump has ever done -- than because she thinks she has the votes to override a veto.)

ETA: Not sure what happened with that link; if anyone can spot a mistake, let me know, but it looks like BBcode might not be [b]parsing correctly[/b] for some reason? Anyway, here's a straight URL:
https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/co ... claration/

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Mongrel
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Re: Oh shit, what are we gonna do now?

Postby Mongrel » Mon Feb 18, 2019 1:30 pm

Yeah, it's not even proccing your bold tags correctly. Weird!

Agree about the courts. The numbers just aren't there for a legislative save. Which is pathetic, but here we are.
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Grath
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Re: Oh shit, what are we gonna do now?

Postby Grath » Mon Feb 25, 2019 7:50 pm


"Trump can't be racist because he sexually assaulted a black woman" is certainly a take.

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beatbandito
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Re: Oh shit, what are we gonna do now?

Postby beatbandito » Mon Feb 25, 2019 7:59 pm

I'm confused, and I'm worried it's because I'm not actually confused. I just don't want to believe that words have become so worthless that someone could include "forcing" in their description and not consider it an act of violence.
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mharr
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Re: Oh shit, what are we gonna do now?

Postby mharr » Mon Feb 25, 2019 8:02 pm

Now he's blocking all the critics, obv. I like the detail where Twitter says "You are blocked from viewing [shithead]'s Tweets", do they not know how their own platform works?

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