Pros and Cons of Punching a Nazi Just Square in the Dick

[Sharkey]

This might be the first time I've slipped out of a chaotic alignment, but just fucking barely. It seems like only yesterday the GM decided I was no longer chaotic neutral.

[Blossom]

[Grath]

[Brantly B.]

I dunno that question sounds like it could be the beginning of a breakthrough.

I mean, it's not, but it would have made a good start.

[Mongrel]

I'll just sigh really theatrically.

[Büge]

[Wheels]

You know, that's a point well made. This thread is nothing but worrying about the finer details while we still ultimately agree on the same core points. Let's not talk about the finer distinctions of what we specifically will do, but let's fucking do something instead of handwringing over methodology.

[Mongrel]

Also, apparently I should be wearing a dress. And golden underwear. >:]

[Wheels]

And I personally, resolve to *also* punch Richard Spencer in the face if I meet him.

[Lyrai]

[Classic]

The thing to remember about "it will be justification for this thing" logic is that these people already want to do whatever you're trying to prevent justifying. Where they cannot do it by fiat, they will manufacture justifications until one sticks.

Same thing for gutting the filibuster.

[Lyrai]

[Büge]

[Lyrai]

[Wheels]

Tony, as usual, wrong about everything

[Thad]

If we're still doing "What would Jack Kirby think?" question then Evanier covered that as best he could.

tl;dr Jack was a soldier; he didn't just punch nazis, he killed them. He didn't go around punching nazis after the war ended. If someone challenged him to a fist-fight he wouldn't back down (irrespective of whether the other party was a nazi), but he didn't punch guys in the back of the head. Of course, he's not around to tell us his feelings on the subject in the current political climate.

I am not sure what Captain America's other creator, Joe Simon, would have had to say on the subject. It is entirely possible that he would have a different view from Kirby's.

[Brantly B.]

Modern Cap, meanwhile, seems to want to be very clear that you punch people for what they DO and not what they ARE. Which... shouldn't be much of an argument, really, but the convenient shorthand of "Punch Nazis" as meaning "Punch anyone who engages in a program of socioethnic purification" has spooked a lot of people who feel they could too easily be labeled "Nazi" one day and end up on the other end of the noose.

The problem, as usual, is phrasing.

[Büge]

Kinda unfortunate that Marvel is doubling down on the Captain America Is A Nazi narrative.

[Thad]

I don't know that it's "doubling down" so much as "continuing as planned and ignoring the criticisms."

Marvel's sales have really been dropping these past months. It's hard to pin down what percentage of that is down to this particular event and what percentage is just that event-based storytelling is, ultimately, unsustainable, and will inevitably produce diminishing returns. I think it's a certainty that both things play a role, but it's pretty hard to break down just how much each is responsible for.

Their next sales gimmick actually sounds like a pretty good idea to me: they're focusing on team-ups of legacy characters. Thor Odinson with the Jane Foster Thor, Peter Parker with Miles Morales, etc. I've always liked the legacy element over at DC (the Dick and Damian Batman and Robin series remains one of my favorite Big Two books of the last two decades), and I think there's strong potential there at Marvel.

I think that's probably about where Marvel management is right now: "Let's just grit our teeth and get through this and hope they like the next gimmick better."

[Büge]