Pros and Cons of Punching a Nazi Just Square in the Dick

[pacobird]

Breaking news! Nazi leader has had all the Nazi punched out of him. "I don't know what I was thinking", he says. "Guess I'm going home to be a family man now. Sorry about the stuff, everyone!" Nearby Nazi sympathizers discarded swastika-related apparel and joined ongoing BLM march in contrite, respectful silence; multiple fellow protesters are quoted as saying "huh" and "well I'll be".

In apparent response to the event, Kansas legislature called an emergency session to repeal voter ID laws immediately, and Tennessee is expected to follow suit within the hour.

If I were to ever come to respect the good faith of a Nazi, the first step would be him demonstrating an understanding that by openly holding such views he had knowingly forgone his right to not be punched in the face.

Nazis could essentially be seen as both ablative armor and distraction in that context; punching them feels so good and right that it gives you the illusion that something big has happened, while all you've actually accomplished is knocking a bunch of morons off the roof of the caboose of the runaway devil-train made out of pig iron and nightmares that's heading straight for Minority Hamlet.

Come on, nobody thinks this. You see a Nazi, you punch him; that's it. You stop punching when you stop seeing Nazis.

[Mongrel]

I'm at work so I'm only linking one example, but I'm sure you get my point.

It's actually a question being argued, how much do you link lone, unhinged attackers to a broader movement which clearly inspires them?

It seems compelling at first, but I don't think it holds up. These acts of terror aren't being arranged by some sort of alt-right committee of white mullahs. The links are there, but again, they stop just short of where you could nail someone. It is enormously effective trolling and it seems to be working based on the replies here.

Acts of terror against a free society are a very different thing from direct attempts to take over a free society and un-free it. Yes, terror can lead to that eventually (that's the idea after all) - but only IF there's an organized leadership and campaign behind it with a long-term plan. Also there is no way that punching any amount of Nazis makes people like Roof disappear - ordinary weighing of consequences went out the window a long time ago for people like that.

I keep telling you guys, the old rules aren't necessarily going to hold up. Something different is happening and the shape of it is not yet set. Like Brent said, he "won", where winning was getting punched in the face. We're just not sure about what else that means yet.

Everyone's so damn happy about this, but I just can't shake the feeling we're being played.

[pacobird]

I keep telling you guys, the old rules aren't necessarily going to hold up. Something different is happening and the shape of it is not yet set. Like Brent said, he "won", where winning was getting punched in the face. We're just not sure about what else that means yet.

Everyone's so damn happy about this, but I just can't shake the feeling we're being played.

Of course there's spin already at work. Of course we're getting played. The only relevant question is: do you punch a Nazi? Y/N?

If punching a Nazi is a trap to make more Nazis I will start training with my offhand, too.

[Joxam]

Im less than an hour you've moved the goal posts from "alt right people aren't murdering people" to what, "their leaders arent doing it"? Dylann Roof was the logical end point of their rhetoric. Dude that got hit in face calls for ethnic cleansing, Dylann Roof was ethnically cleaning fucking house.

[Mongrel]

I keep telling you guys, the old rules aren't necessarily going to hold up. Something different is happening and the shape of it is not yet set. Like Brent said, he "won", where winning was getting punched in the face. We're just not sure about what else that means yet.

Everyone's so damn happy about this, but I just can't shake the feeling we're being played.

Of course there's spin already at work. Of course we're getting played. The only relevant question is: do you punch a Nazi? Y/N?

If punching a Nazi is a trap to make more Nazis I will start training with my offhand, too.

Im less than an hour you've moved the goal posts from "alt right people aren't murdering people" to what, "their leaders arent doing it"? Dylann Roof was the logical end point of their rhetoric. Dude that got hit in face calls for ethnic cleansing, Dylann Roof was ethnically cleaning fucking house.

Consider the possibility that punching Nazis will create more Dylan Roofs, not fewer.

[Mongrel]

Like, do you guys at least understand that I am not being driven by some extreme turn-the-other-cheek philosophy here. I will repeat that I am in favour of punching Nazis when it come to it.

My concerns are practical, tactical ones. Even being willing to take the first punch is in many ways a tactical issue, trading small power for far greater power.

I'd rather overestimate the enemy than underestimate them given the consequences for the former are negligible. Everyone wants an easy magic answer and it sure as fuck doesn't get much easier than the comic-book logic of "punch problem until it goes away".

[Mongrel]

Like I am trying not to invoke mental illness, but Roof was and is certifiably fucking insane as well as following a spree shooter pattern that predates the Alt-Right by many years and is it's own problem/can of worms. He is not the best argument to use if what we're worried about is a far more banal and calculating evil as exemplified by organized Nazism seeking to create a totalitarian state.

[Joxam]

Oh man the "white mass murderer must be insane" argument. That sure is a new one. At some point when motherfuckers are literally killing people for stated reason"white allies" might actually start fucking taking them for their word, but clearly we aren't there.

[Mongrel]

Oh man the "white mass murderer must be insane" argument. That sure is a new one. At some point when motherfuckers are literally killing people for stated reason"white allies" might actually start fucking taking them for their word, but clearly we aren't there.

The specific example you chose to use, Dylan Roof, is most certainly insane.

[pacobird]

I keep telling you guys, the old rules aren't necessarily going to hold up. Something different is happening and the shape of it is not yet set. Like Brent said, he "won", where winning was getting punched in the face. We're just not sure about what else that means yet.

Everyone's so damn happy about this, but I just can't shake the feeling we're being played.

Of course there's spin already at work. Of course we're getting played. The only relevant question is: do you punch a Nazi? Y/N?

If punching a Nazi is a trap to make more Nazis I will start training with my offhand, too.

Im less than an hour you've moved the goal posts from "alt right people aren't murdering people" to what, "their leaders arent doing it"? Dylann Roof was the logical end point of their rhetoric. Dude that got hit in face calls for ethnic cleansing, Dylann Roof was ethnically cleaning fucking house.

Consider the possibility that punching Nazis will create more Dylan Roofs, not fewer.

Has not hitting the bitch been working? I mean, scientifically speaking, has not hitting the bitch achieved the desired results?

[Mongrel]

I keep telling you guys, the old rules aren't necessarily going to hold up. Something different is happening and the shape of it is not yet set. Like Brent said, he "won", where winning was getting punched in the face. We're just not sure about what else that means yet.

Everyone's so damn happy about this, but I just can't shake the feeling we're being played.

Of course there's spin already at work. Of course we're getting played. The only relevant question is: do you punch a Nazi? Y/N?

If punching a Nazi is a trap to make more Nazis I will start training with my offhand, too.

Im less than an hour you've moved the goal posts from "alt right people aren't murdering people" to what, "their leaders arent doing it"? Dylann Roof was the logical end point of their rhetoric. Dude that got hit in face calls for ethnic cleansing, Dylann Roof was ethnically cleaning fucking house.

Consider the possibility that punching Nazis will create more Dylan Roofs, not fewer.

Has not hitting the bitch been working? I mean, scientifically speaking, has not hitting the bitch achieved the desired results?

It's interesting that you would use as an analogue a relationship where the Nazi would be an abused partner beholden to the presumed Moral Avenger.

[François]

Come on, nobody thinks this.

Nobody smart, sure.

[pacobird]

I keep telling you guys, the old rules aren't necessarily going to hold up. Something different is happening and the shape of it is not yet set. Like Brent said, he "won", where winning was getting punched in the face. We're just not sure about what else that means yet.

Everyone's so damn happy about this, but I just can't shake the feeling we're being played.

Of course there's spin already at work. Of course we're getting played. The only relevant question is: do you punch a Nazi? Y/N?

If punching a Nazi is a trap to make more Nazis I will start training with my offhand, too.

Im less than an hour you've moved the goal posts from "alt right people aren't murdering people" to what, "their leaders arent doing it"? Dylann Roof was the logical end point of their rhetoric. Dude that got hit in face calls for ethnic cleansing, Dylann Roof was ethnically cleaning fucking house.

Consider the possibility that punching Nazis will create more Dylan Roofs, not fewer.

Has not hitting the bitch been working? I mean, scientifically speaking, has not hitting the bitch achieved the desired results?

It's interesting that you would use as an analogue a relationship where the Nazi would be an abused partner beholden to the presumed Moral Avenger.

Oh please, please say you're going to try to unpack that.

Richard Spencer and Dylan Roof and Sam Hyde and all his anime nazis didn't start prepping for RaHoWa because somebody actually beat their asses.

[Mongrel]

Nah. That would just get silly.

[Mongrel]

Look, if you want to talk about the Alt-Right trending towards violence, WaPo already had a very good article last year.

It is notable that they specifically talk about solutions which have been shown to work in other instances of radicalization and extremism (Islamic Terrorism, for instance). These solutions are time-consuming, distasteful to some, and do not involve punching people.

Because that's what we need to be looking at. Not the jackbooted Hugo Boss Nazis of 1939, but the terrorists and radical communities of 2017.

[Thad]

Within Twitter’s radicalizing alt-right community, we identify those “authentic voices” by scouring the network for nodes, or users, who are unusually influential. (The 10 most important/influential have been colored red in the diagram below.) From there, we can identify important users who are less radicalized than is typical across their network.

That's the trick. Some people can be reasoned with, some can't, and it's not always easy to tell which is which.

The guy in the video, though, doesn't seem like he's one of the former.

[Rico]

So, did Mongrel move to the US at some point or is he just completely taking over a relatively targeted thread for masturbation?

[Mongrel]

I'm not sure what you're getting at - do you think Nazis and responses to them are an issue only Americans need to think about or discuss?

If, on the other hand, my views seem irritatingly inconsistent, it's because I've been considering and reconsidering them as the discussion progresses. I've also been looking for guidance, reading and rereading old advice from people who're a lot more intelligent and courageous than I ever will be. Though, if anything, those are pushing in the direction of being more opposed to the consensus here rather than "bringing me around". They might even make a filthy peacenik of me yet.

I have to say that I'm not comfortable with the "If you're not with us, you're with the Nazis" vibe of hostility I've gotten today. I mean, no one's said that outright, but it sure seems like that subtext is there. I'm on your side guys, you can put the pitchforks away.

[zaratustra]

Well, Richard Spencer should be glad he is in a country with such an obsession about unrestricted speech.

Because, frankly, if -I- had the chance I wouldn't use fists. I'd use a tire iron.

Not to the head, of course, I'm not an animal.

[Wheels]

I have to say that I'm not comfortable with the "If you're not with us, you're with the Nazis" vibe of hostility I've gotten today. I mean, no one's said that outright, but it sure seems like that subtext is there. I'm on your side guys, you can put the pitchforks away.

It's less social pressure and more bewilderment.

Let's reframe and consider this a moment, Mongrel. If you, as in you personally, walked by a jackass that catcalls your wife as ludely as possible and then calls her a dumb cunt for ignoring it... Wouldn't you punch him?

Speech can and *absolutely* is a cause for a justified violent response.