Gamerbois Gone Wild(ly Racist)

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Joxam
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Re: Gamerbois Gone Wild(ly Racist)

Postby Joxam » Wed Mar 15, 2017 8:20 pm

Also, bigger issue is, in perhaps not pewdiepies case, but in most cases, these people are joking about this shit at literal primary schoolers.
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TA
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Re: Gamerbois Gone Wild(ly Racist)

Postby TA » Wed Mar 15, 2017 8:26 pm

Mongrel wrote:A friend of mine is legitimately upset because he's like "I have young kids... do I have to worry now that in watching seemingly harmless YouTube videos about video games they might be fed racist propaganda?"


The answer to that is no. You don't have to worry about this now. You've needed to worry about this at least since GamerGate, and probably since before then, but it should at least be obvious enough now that you shouldn't even need to ask this question.
のほも is such a good word?? the concept is kind of hard to fully get across in translation, but basically it means a feeling of pure, deep, platonic affection, and i think thats beautiful

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Friday
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Re: Gamerbois Gone Wild(ly Racist)

Postby Friday » Wed Mar 15, 2017 8:36 pm

Also, bigger issue is, in perhaps not pewdiepies case, but in most cases, these people are joking about this shit at literal primary schoolers.


Yeah, that's the worst part. Kids ape anything they think is "cool" which is how we end up with 13 year olds setting themselves on fire and shit. If you think kids won't copy racist jokes and behavior, man, they will literally set themselves on fire if they saw someone "cool" doing it. They are hardwired to copy adults and their peers. "Setting a good example" is not just a phrase, it's literally the ONLY way to teach children to be good people.

Also: regarding the "do I need to worry about the content my child is watching?" the answer has always been yes? Do you think some idiot making minecraft videos is going to filter his stupid (racist and otherwise) shit? What world do you live in where people are always thinking about the impact that their video about My Little Pony could have on kids?

Talk to your kids about racism? Holy jesus fuck, prepare them for what's out there before they wander into a PewPewHitler video at a friend's house. What the fuck are you even doing with your life where you don't talk to your children about racism and bad behavior?

It's not about censorship. Keeping your kids from playing Hotline Miami and watching PewPewJewKiller videos is all well and good and it's part of the solution. But the biggest part is arming your kids with the knowledge and morals. We teach kids not to hit. We teach kids not to talk back. Trust me, you can teach your kid that making jokes about killing Jews and Blacks is not okay.

You cannot block out the world forever. They WILL find PewPewKillTheJews. They WILL have someone tell them that Jews and Blacks are inferior. More and more I hear parents lamenting that they never would have thought that X would do Y, where Y equals "rich black people commit more crime than poor whites." We live in the REAL WORLD. I don't know what fucking world you live in, but the one I live in has racists in it. I know this shocks you, because I guess you have a massive brain tumor? I really don't know how people can seriously expect the world to be all puppy dogs and rainbows to their children.

I mean, my dad beat the shit out of me and my brother, so I recognize that I have a leg up in the "the world is shit, better arm yourself to deal with that" department over most people. (Not all.) But please, get chemo to treat that fucking tumor in your brain so you can recognize that the world is a dangerous place and you should tell your kids that. Maybe take 'em to a self-defense class, you know, prepare them for it. What a fucking concept.

Sorry, this got off-topic, but goddamn do I hate clueless fucking parents so goddamn much.

Again, the answer is not "forbid your child from watching any youtube, tv, or playing any video game." Selective censoring is good, and that can help, but you cannot insulate them from the world entirely. They will be exposed. Make sure they're ready.
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Re: Gamerbois Gone Wild(ly Racist)

Postby Mongrel » Wed Mar 15, 2017 8:59 pm

That would be my thinking too. Don't overinsulate, help set them up so they can recognize shit for what it is on their own.
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Re: Gamerbois Gone Wild(ly Racist)

Postby Mongrel » Wed Mar 15, 2017 9:00 pm

Friday wrote:Like, for example, I truly believe that Mongrel does not post enough.

I'm so confused.
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Re: Gamerbois Gone Wild(ly Racist)

Postby Brentai » Wed Mar 15, 2017 10:30 pm

In "defense" of PDP I can absolutely see him as the type who noticed he got a positive reaction from some viewers when he said certain things so he kept doing it and now he has no idea why people seem to have changed their mind about it.

JonTron is just the really really weird kid.

If you want me to make a meaningful contribution to the conversation at hand, well, see above. You can filter out the JonTrons semi-successfully but PDP is always going to be out there because it's not PDP himself doing it per se, it's whatever clown has taken the role of "says whatever works" today and that will always be the most popular clown in the room because, well, he says whatever works. Unless you're going to raise society's lowest common denominator overnight, you'd best be prepared for this to keep happening, in whatever form media has taken this generation, over and over again, forever, amen.

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Re: Gamerbois Gone Wild(ly Racist)

Postby Z%rø » Wed Mar 15, 2017 10:51 pm

So I think the lesson here is that normalizing edgy/shock value humor is actually a big problem, because at the end of the day, even if you're saying it AS A PRANK, BRO you're still saying it.

In the same way that, in the past, MAYBE, JUST MAYBE 4chan was about people making racist and nazi jokes, but then the actual and nazis moved in.
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Friday
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Re: Gamerbois Gone Wild(ly Racist)

Postby Friday » Wed Mar 15, 2017 11:39 pm

My point is that the 4channers making racist and nazi jokes were the actual racists and nazis all along, and after joking about it for awhile, they just stopped joking and started talking.

Your counter-example, that 4chan was just full of retards and then THE REAL BAD GUYS MOVED IN seems less likely to me, by several orders of magnitude.
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Re: Gamerbois Gone Wild(ly Racist)

Postby Bal » Wed Mar 15, 2017 11:49 pm

I'm probably still going to watch JonTron's video on Yooka-Laylee, the only subject on which I believe him to be an expert. However, I run ad-block on everything, so it won't exactly be support.

RE: Friday. I think it's both. There's been a clear normalizing of white nationalist sentiment over the last 15 years or so and I have no doubt that many budding young fascists learned it on the internet.

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Re: Gamerbois Gone Wild(ly Racist)

Postby Friday » Wed Mar 15, 2017 11:57 pm

Sure. And Zero's not wrong about the normalization thing. I just am trying to make clear that if you consistently make jokes about how shit X is, you probably hate X.
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Re: Gamerbois Gone Wild(ly Racist)

Postby Büge » Thu Mar 16, 2017 12:25 am

Bal wrote:RE: Friday. I think it's both. There's been a clear normalizing of white nationalist sentiment over the last 15 years or so and I have no doubt that many budding young fascists learned it on the internet.


I think South Park laid a lot of groundwork for that. It was edgy, it was juvenile, and it was peppered with casual antisemetism.

This whole conversation reminds me of an article that Film Crit Hulk built out of a series of tweets he wrote after the PDP revelation:

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And the article: P.C. Culture Vs. The Big Joke

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Re: Gamerbois Gone Wild(ly Racist)

Postby Z%rø » Thu Mar 16, 2017 12:33 am

Friday wrote:My point is that the 4channers making racist and nazi jokes were the actual racists and nazis all along, and after joking about it for awhile, they just stopped joking and started talking.

Your counter-example, that 4chan was just full of retards and then THE REAL BAD GUYS MOVED IN seems less likely to me, by several orders of magnitude.


That's fair, actually. But I think to putting the entire userbase under that label in 2003-2008 is probably not accurate. I mean, I remember when the usual targets for ridicule was the Religious, and Conservatives. Anyone who tried to push bullshit, obvious racism was sometimes called "Stormfags" and told "gb2stormfront".

So not 100% useful idiots, not 100% actual fascists.

Sidenote: A lot of the actual fascists are actually celebrating PDP's actions (and the consequences he's suffering) as "Redpilling his 50 million subscribers".
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Re: Gamerbois Gone Wild(ly Racist)

Postby Thad » Thu Mar 16, 2017 1:06 am

Büge wrote:I think South Park laid a lot of groundwork for that. It was edgy, it was juvenile, and it was peppered with casual antisemetism.


Of course, the crucial distinction that the antisemites in the audience missed (or ignored) is that Matt Stone is Jewish. There's a qualitative difference between a Jew making jokes about Jews and a goy doing it.

Chris Rock quit doing the "niggas vs. black people" routine for precisely that reason: he didn't like racist white people repeating it and not understanding (or pretending not to understand) the difference between him saying it and them saying it.

The "If they can say it, why can't I say it? It's not fair!" whining suggests a lack of empathy and a lack of understanding of context. Or just being willfully obtuse.

I don't really have anything else to add to that; it's not like these are fresh observations. As far as solutions? I can't really do any better than Friday's "talk to your kids." Kids are smarter than we give them credit for.

...maybe not the ones who set themselves on fire.

...actually, you know what? I knew a kid who set himself on fire. He grew up to work for the ACLU and last I heard he was a state senator in California. Frankly I feel pretty sheepish about all the years I spent making fun of him in dumb stories on the Internet.

So yeah, kids are smarter than we give them credit for. Even the ones who set themselves on fire. Maybe especially the ones who set themselves on fire.

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Re: Gamerbois Gone Wild(ly Racist)

Postby Z%rø » Thu Mar 16, 2017 1:13 am

Thad wrote:Chris Rock quit doing the "niggas vs. black people" routine for precisely that reason: he didn't like racist white people repeating it and not understanding (or pretending not to understand) the difference between him saying it and them saying it.


This reminds me of why Dave Chappelle quit doing the Chappelle show, too.

The third season hit a big speed bump in November 2004. He was taping a sketch about magic pixies that embody stereotypes about the races. The black pixie--played by Chappelle--wears blackface and tries to convince blacks to act in stereotypical ways. Chappelle thought the sketch was funny, the kind of thing his friends would laugh at. But at the taping, one spectator, a white man, laughed particularly loud and long. His laughter struck Chappelle as wrong, and he wondered if the new season of his show had gone from sending up stereotypes to merely reinforcing them. "When he laughed, it made me uncomfortable," says Chappelle. "As a matter of fact, that was the last thing I shot before I told myself I gotta take f_____— time out after this. Because my head almost exploded."
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Re: Gamerbois Gone Wild(ly Racist)

Postby Caithness » Thu Mar 16, 2017 1:17 am

So is the reason it's okay to "just joke" about eating babies that it's so obviously a joke?

I feel like that's the reasoning behind some of the racist/antisemitic humor, and it's just a commentary on society that you can't be 100% sure that it's obvious to everyone unless you're very selectively limiting your audience, and maybe not even then.

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Re: Gamerbois Gone Wild(ly Racist)

Postby Brentai » Thu Mar 16, 2017 1:48 am

Yeah at the moment I'm watching this thread wondering if you people think my body's going to crack open and a freshly pupated actual rapist is going to leap out any minute now.

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Re: Gamerbois Gone Wild(ly Racist)

Postby Mongrel » Thu Mar 16, 2017 2:25 am

There's clearly been a cultural shift in the past few years where a lot of things people say, for good or for ill, are being taken more seriously (see my story in the other thread about my dad telling my brother and we were going to be suicide bombers).

Slavoj Zizek has a story he tells about living in Yugoslavia right before it disintegrated into the Balkan Wars. He said, that when he started out, people there were comfortable telling jokes based on each others' backgrounds, that it was mostly taken in fun (I expect that like racist jokes, there were some people who put a smile on discomfort, but he describes an even playing field where everyone expected a fair give and take, so I'm willing to take the description at face value).

As political tensions rose, the jokes which came at the expense of others' groups were the first thing to go, replaced by cold distance, in fact people there became very sensitive to jokes in general. Humour was among the first casualties.

I'm not saying this as a way of justifying off-colour or inter-tribal jokes (hell, there's a whole can of worms in that old comedian's line about all comedy being someone else's tragedy), but when people start arguing about jokes, when sensitivity to them rises, it means the social consensus around the jokes is breaking down. Maybe this is okay, because it means society is questioning abuses which have gone on too long. But it might also be a signpost of a divided, even splintered society on it's way to deeper conflict.
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Re: Gamerbois Gone Wild(ly Racist)

Postby Friday » Thu Mar 16, 2017 3:16 am

So is the reason it's okay to "just joke" about eating babies that it's so obviously a joke?


It's absurd to the point of obvious absurdity, and I don't talk about eating Black babies, or Jew babies, or White babies. I don't mention that by killing black babies I'm improving the gene pool.

You might be able to argue that PewPewI'mHitlerIKillJewsLikeAndSubscribe dressing up as Hitler and wandering around killing Jew mobs is also absurd to the point of obvious absurdity, but he's targeting a specific people, specifically.

So, am I then saying that racist jokes are not okay, but jokes about murder and eating people, including babies, are?

Yes. With the following caveats, that is what I am saying.

Jokes about babies and killing and murder do actually trigger some people. That's fine. They're not for all contexts. I can make jokes about that shit here because they're fine in this context.

Even racist jokes are occasionally fine in certain contexts, like once in a while between friends when you're pretty sure you've known your friends long enough to know that they're not gonna laugh at those jokes in any more sense than "that's terrible".

Constant racist jokes are never okay in any context.

Yeah at the moment I'm watching this thread wondering if you people think my body's going to crack open and a freshly pupated actual rapist is going to leap out any minute now.


Brentai's meme has always been slightly over the line. That's probably why he hardly ever does it anymore. I don't personally have a problem with it, but constant joking about rape is, yes, not really okay. Again, he barely makes jokes like that anymore, and again, I don't have a problem with jokes about fucking anything if they're occasional enough.
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Re: Gamerbois Gone Wild(ly Racist)

Postby Friday » Thu Mar 16, 2017 3:18 am

But I mean, if anyone here was normalized to the thought of murdering a baby and eating it because of my 10+ years of joking about it, my apologies.
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Re: Gamerbois Gone Wild(ly Racist)

Postby Bal » Thu Mar 16, 2017 3:33 am

Fascism becomes increasingly less hilarious the more actual fascism takes hold in the world. Similarly nationalism, most often of the white variety, and often related.

Real talk, this is 16 years of fear, legitimate and otherwise, war, mistrust and ignorance playing out on an international stage combined with the greatest economic uncertainty since the 30's (oh dear god). So as discussed in the thread about punching Nazis, if someone happens to mention that their sympathies like in that direction, fucking believe them. This is no time to wait and see if they're serious or not. When it comes to some jackass like Pewdiepie, he probably needs calling out more than beating, because he's an idiot more than a bigot in my opinion, but it's still something that needs doing.

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