Election 2020 - Here we go again

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Re: Election 2020 - Here we go again

Postby Newbie » Sun Jan 26, 2020 2:28 am

A friend on another forum pointed out the irony of the Democratic establishment pushing so hard for Biden under the myth that he's going to pull votes from the right in the general election, but as soon as those right-leaning voters start endorsing Bernie, suddenly it's a problem.

I agree that Rogan's platform has thus far done more harm than good, and acknowledging the endorsement the way Bernie did was probably a mistake since that's suddenly all the conversation seems to care about. I would really appreciate it if Rogan's audience suddenly gained a collective interest in intersectionality, or in—hell, even the basics of doing right by minorities and the underprivileged. That said, Rogan's casual racism and transphobia is an early step in the process of moving young white dudes toward the extremist fringe, so if he's doing anything to push his audience toward the left, that seems like an improvement and an important first step.
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zaratustra
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Re: Election 2020 - Here we go again

Postby zaratustra » Sun Jan 26, 2020 7:50 am

I'm not worried about Rogan endorsing Bernie.

I'm worried about Bernie endorsing Rogan in turn.

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Re: Election 2020 - Here we go again

Postby Joxam » Sun Jan 26, 2020 11:51 am

Thats exactly my point. As I've said on twitter, all Bernie had to do was nothing and Rogan's endorsement would mean exactly the same thing for Rogan fans, but the campaign cut a video lauding his endorsement, and that has to signal acceptance of it. Also, all of this being said, Bernie is still the best man for the job. I'm still going to vote for him, he's still my guy, but we can ask our guy to do and be better.
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Re: Election 2020 - Here we go again

Postby Brentai » Sun Jan 26, 2020 1:44 pm

Sometimes I hate it when the sig is appropriate.
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Upthorn
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Re: Election 2020 - Here we go again

Postby Upthorn » Sun Jan 26, 2020 5:36 pm

I shouldn't have posted my response in ignorance. I haven't actually seen the Sanders Campaign's response video to the Rogan endorsement, and have been assuming that it's more about:

"Hey look! I peeled off a somewhat big name right-winger! Maybe think for a second about that before you make any more electability arguments!"
How fleeting are all human passions compared with the massive continuity of ducks.

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Re: Election 2020 - Here we go again

Postby Büge » Sun Jan 26, 2020 8:16 pm

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Re: Election 2020 - Here we go again

Postby Thad » Mon Jan 27, 2020 2:36 pm

Upthorn wrote:This guy on twitter said it better than I can:

Does it, though?

Supporting Sanders on his economic policies doesn't make somebody not a racist. It just means that they put a higher priority on healthcare than racism.

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If this poses an opportunity to change Rogan and his listeners' minds on social issues, that's great, but it very much remains to be seen.

One of the most common criticisms against Sanders is that he's dismissive toward social issues ("identity politics") and only cares about economic policy. He's gotten much better about calling out racism, but stuff like this certainly plays into the narrative that he's not as sensitive to bigotry as he should be.

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Re: Election 2020 - Here we go again

Postby Thad » Tue Jan 28, 2020 7:53 pm

538's tracker is now showing Sanders as the favorite to win Iowa. Not by much (they're giving him a 37% chance compared to 35% for Biden), and all the usual caveats apply about state polls being less reliable than national ones, caucuses being less predictable than primaries, where John Kerry was polling before the Iowa Caucus, etc.

But this is a very good position for Sanders to be in: less than a week before the caucus, showing clear momentum across multiple reliable polls, plus the nature of caucuses playing to the strengths of candidates like Sanders with a devoted following.

Cautious optimism.

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Re: Election 2020 - Here we go again

Postby pacobird » Tue Jan 28, 2020 9:24 pm

One of the most common criticisms against Sanders is that he's dismissive toward social issues ("identity politics") and only cares about economic policy. He's gotten much better about calling out racism, but stuff like this certainly plays into the narrative that he's not as sensitive to bigotry as he should be.


This is true and I kind of hate it, because somebody who is dismissive of social issues - like Rogan - could come to a candidate like Sanders based on his economic/power message with no regard for his social politics whether those social politics are pronounced or not. Sanders' positions on justice issues just don't enter into his calculus, because he doesn't care (except marijuana).

Like, Rogan might think SJWs are annoying because they don't share his priorities, but that doesn't mean he's actively opposed to their goals. I mean, he's not a chud, is he? He's had some enormously shitty guests, but he's honestly too dumb to intentionally be the Trojan Horse people accuse him of being. retracted. I apologize. I was unaware how much he sucks. He sucks.

Somebody called him the Oprah of Dumb White Dudes and the guileless, no-reading-beforehand curiosity of his interview style tracks. If Oprah endorsed Sanders would everybody be all "But Dr. Phil"?
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Re: Election 2020 - Here we go again

Postby Blossom » Tue Jan 28, 2020 9:48 pm

pacobird wrote:
One of the most common criticisms against Sanders is that he's dismissive toward social issues ("identity politics") and only cares about economic policy. He's gotten much better about calling out racism, but stuff like this certainly plays into the narrative that he's not as sensitive to bigotry as he should be.


This is true and I kind of hate it, because somebody who is dismissive of social issues - like Rogan - could come to a candidate like Sanders based on his economic/power message with no regard for his social politics whether those social politics are pronounced or not. Sanders' positions on justice issues just don't enter into his calculus, because he doesn't care (except marijuana).

Like, Rogan might think SJWs are annoying because they don't share his priorities, but that doesn't mean he's actively opposed to their goals. I mean, he's not a chud, is he? He's had some enormously shitty guests, but he's honestly too dumb to intentionally be the Trojan Horse people accuse him of being. retracted. I apologize. I was unaware how much he sucks. He sucks.

Somebody called him the Oprah of Dumb White Dudes and the guileless, no-reading-beforehand curiosity of his interview style tracks. If Oprah endorsed Sanders would everybody be all "But Dr. Phil"?


I mean, the New York Times endorsed Warren, and nobody went "but all the wars, and Bret Stephens".

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Re: Election 2020 - Here we go again

Postby pacobird » Tue Jan 28, 2020 9:59 pm

I don't know how well it relates, but one thing people mention re: his transphobia is calling Fallon Fox a man, which is transphobic of course, but the only reason he got hot about it was it involved MMA. The broader justice issues just don't register.

Yeah, it's Gamergate all over again; the question is not whether there are elements who wish to use the platform to pursue a broader agenda (of course there are) but whether the guy himself is actually smart enough to consider the context and implication of his visceral reaction. He's pretty clearly not, and at the core of this I see a lot of frustration over just what to make of the reach of a guy who simply lacks the ability to graft a series of opinions and reactions into a coherent ideology and built an empire around it.

Somebody said, "what about the Proud Boys? Will they deliver votes?" and the answer is, of course, "not nearly enough." Most people just don't think that hard about this kind of stuff and don't want to!
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Re: Election 2020 - Here we go again

Postby Friday » Tue Jan 28, 2020 10:11 pm

So, I've known Joe Rogan was a chudbro for years, because I can read people people broadcast who they are by the way they dress, hold themselves, and speak.

I've listened to a few clips from his podcasts and I understand just from his stupid fucking face that he's, at best (and this is at best) AT BEST (again, AT FUCKING BEST) a fucking clown asshole dipshit who nobody should listen to at all, ever. He's indistinguishable from a fratboy both drunk and high and playing Halo and yelling the N-word and then going "but I don't mean it in a racist way" when confronted about it.

All that being said, can one of you more informed people list his specific crimes?

What I mean is, do you have clips or transcripts of him saying bad shit? I'm asking because I have friends who think he's pretty cool and want to actually show them evidence without having to, you know, comb though his fucking podcasts myself, which would cause me to put a shotgun in my mouth.
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Re: Election 2020 - Here we go again

Postby Mongrel » Tue Jan 28, 2020 10:56 pm

Meanwhile, back at Camp Biden, Joe implements his daring new slogan, "Vote for someone else".


As it turns out, the guy getting his jacket grabbed is Ed Fallon, a long-serving former Democratic state representative... from Iowa. Oops!

And then this happened:


(to be fair, there are many people saying that their dog likes that sort of thing. There are also many saying theirs doesn't. Either way, this particular dog did seem to be alright with it... but the owner also seems to be reassuring them throughout.)
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Brentai
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Re: Election 2020 - Here we go again

Postby Brentai » Tue Jan 28, 2020 11:37 pm

Joe Rogan is Howard Stern on the internet.

The problem with Joe Rogan isn't actually Joe Rogan as much as the problem with Howard Stern was never actually Howard Stern.

i.e.: People acting in bad faith (or who want to) are going to point to this Shock Celebrity and say "Why can't I act just like THAT GUY does on international media?" and the answer is of course because THAT GUY is a fucking character on a show, he's every bit as real as Homer Simpson and shouldn't ever be considered a standard of acceptable anything. But nobody can see that distinction any more because the ascendant Democratic Presidential nominee just accepted the endorsement of this reality show character to help him win an election against a President who is his own reality show character and there is no such thing as a regular-ass polite human being who doesn't get into an awful misadventure every week any more.
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Re: Election 2020 - Here we go again

Postby beatbandito » Wed Jan 29, 2020 5:25 am

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Re: Election 2020 - Here we go again

Postby Mongrel » Wed Jan 29, 2020 5:31 am

I guess that answers the question about the dog shake.
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Re: Election 2020 - Here we go again

Postby Thad » Wed Jan 29, 2020 11:39 am

You know, if you'd pointed to the various hosts of The Man Show and told me "Three of these guys are going to be prominent right-wing douchebags, and one of them is going to be an eloquent advocate for affordable healthcare," I probably wouldn't have guessed the guy in blackface.

...OK, actually I probably would have, but mostly by process of elimination.

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Re: Election 2020 - Here we go again

Postby pacobird » Wed Jan 29, 2020 1:56 pm

beatbandito wrote:


I am 90% sure Bloomberg's campaign is being run by weird Twitter leftists who signed up for a fat paycheck and to tank the campaign
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Re: Election 2020 - Here we go again

Postby Thad » Wed Jan 29, 2020 2:00 pm

Ah, the Gravel Maneuver.

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Re: Election 2020 - Here we go again

Postby Mongrel » Wed Jan 29, 2020 2:29 pm

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