Let's Play Suikoden 2!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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TA
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Re: Let's Play Suikoden 2!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Postby TA » Sat Apr 19, 2014 4:02 pm

nosimpleway wrote:Coming up in an update or two I'll have the chance to sneak into a late-midgame area and do a scenario there. I'll pick up two recruits we're not supposed to see in a while, and my party will shoot up to around level 40. The overall narrative of the game doesn't change, so it's not really a sequence break... just a sidequest that gives me a bloody goddamn lot of experience and money for where I'm at. Should I do it? Voting is up!


I'd say don't do it, because it's fun when bosses are hard. But it'd also be neat to see it. So ... two saves? Show us how it's done, then reload?
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Re: Let's Play Suikoden 2!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Postby Thad » Sat Apr 19, 2014 5:04 pm

Hm.

On the one hand, it's game-breaking and will make everything a lot less fun.

On the other hand, so does successful completion of Clive's sidequest, which, as I believe I mentioned in the old thread, I've only ever been able to complete by playing through every section of the game twice in a row (once to get the lay of the land and read the dialogue, and then a reset and a second run through as fast as I can go). Being able to Let Go from battles for the first half of the game would mitigate the issue somewhat (and make Stallion an even more trivial recruit).

Then again, if you're already running around for hours looking for rare drops, then it doesn't sound like you're concerned about completing that particular subquest on this runthrough anyway.

Course, I think it'd be entirely forgivable just to cheat and reset the clock on your save file, because that time requirement is bullshit.

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Re: Let's Play Suikoden 2!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Postby Thad » Sat Apr 19, 2014 8:00 pm

Thad wrote:...Since I think about it, it's almost odd that there hasn't been a fan retranslation project on this game. Almost, except that there are still several spinoff games that don't have English translations at all, I can see how those would be higher priorities.


Actually, a look around the Internet reveals that Suikogaiden Episode 2 and Card Stories have both received fan translations since the last time I checked, bringing the number of Suikoden games with no English translation down to just one. I still expect Woven Web of a Century is a better candidate for fan translation than the original games (and I bet we'll see the PS1 translations applied to the PSP version of the games before anyone tries retranslating them), but I wouldn't be surprised to see someone undertake the project within the next year or two.

(Speaking of: any plans on doing a playthrough of the fan translation of Swordsman of Harmonia?)


Or Card Stories?

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Re: Let's Play Suikoden 2!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Postby nosimpleway » Sat Apr 19, 2014 8:05 pm

I might. I've never played them before, so I'd be going in blind.

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Re: Let's Play Suikoden 2!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Postby nosimpleway » Sun Apr 20, 2014 7:06 pm

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Eilie: So that's where we part company...

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It is indeed!

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Tenzan Pass is just north of Kyaro, so if I wanted to go back to where the Unicorn Brigade got slaughtered, I... well, I can't, because it's blocked by Highland troops. So back to Kyaro it is.

Music: Homesickness

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Eilie: Wow, so this is your town? It's really nice.
Rina: This is where we say goodbye. It was fun travelling with you.
Eilie: So where do you live? Maybe we could drop by next time we're in town.
Jowy: Well my house is to the north where the road ends, and Muteiu's house is off to the west. Just take a left at that path.
Eilie: Okay, thanks. See you later.
Bolgan: Take care of yourselves.

Rina, Eilie, and Bolgan walk offscreen, back out of town. Eilie only stops for a moment to look back at Muteiu.

Jowy: Muteiu..... That leader of the mercenaries has got me worried. I'm going straight home. Nanami's probably waiting, so you should go home too. But be careful, okay. I'll see you later...

Jowy also leaves, so Muteiu's by himself for a bit.

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The townspeople here come in three flavors. Some whisper to Muteiu that he should leave before any trouble starts, and they don't really believe he's a spy. Some curse at him for betraying his hometown and his nation. And some others praise Rowd for his bravery in the State attack. It's not difficult to put together what's been going on since the Unicorn Brigade slaughter.

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Recognize this from the cutscene earlier? It's Muteiu's home, the dojo where he grew up.

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Out back is a tree that bears some investigation...

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Look at the tree three times, and Muteiu gets increasingly confused until he takes a walk around the trunk. And once he does...

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He gets a new party member: a flying squirrel in a red cape!

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The inside of the dojo looks well lived-in.

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Only to Muteiu! Other Suikoden works elaborate more on what a terrible cook Nanami is, to the point that Muteiu's taste for it is best described as an "immunity".

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Re: Let's Play Suikoden 2!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Postby nosimpleway » Sun Apr 20, 2014 7:13 pm

Music: Beautiful Morning

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This is a really well-animated scene, showing off a lot of the care that would have gone into the game if tight deadlines hadn't forced it out the door. Nanami's so excited to see Muteiu that she tries to get up and trips over her own feet.

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As she speaks this line, Nanami has grabbed Muteiu by the shirt and is shaking the everloving shit out of him.

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Give her a second, she's too busy emoting to pay attention to what's coming out of her own mouth.

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Re: Let's Play Suikoden 2!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Postby nosimpleway » Sun Apr 20, 2014 7:16 pm

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shake shake

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The rarely-seen-in-an-overhead-camera-JRPG stance: the three-quarters view.

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She actually helps him up from where she knocked him down in the first place. This sort of scene is why I wanted to make this a hybrid LP in the first place.

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Uh... off we go, then...

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Re: Let's Play Suikoden 2!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Postby nosimpleway » Sun Apr 20, 2014 7:19 pm

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Nanami bursts back outside with such enthusiasm that Muteiu is comically cratered into the far wall.

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Whew.

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Don't get in Nanami's way when she's excited. That dent in the rocks never goes away for the rest of the game.

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Re: Let's Play Suikoden 2!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Postby nosimpleway » Sun Apr 20, 2014 7:29 pm

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Nanami: Huh! What! No! No! No!

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Nanami: No! I won't let you take him!

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Nanami whips out a three-part flail and readies it in... well, the three-part flail doesn't really lend itself to normal battle stance. But Nanami surely knows what she's doing, she was raised in the same dojo Muteiu was.

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Aw yiss let's bust some skulls

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Muteiu and Nanami have a Unite attack, of course, having grown up training in the same martial arts. It can go one of two ways...


Either the two of them rush forward and do a multi-hit combo against an enemy for double damage, or Nanami lets Muteiu attack the enemy while she cheers him on, makes a pot of tea, reads a manga, and has a snack. In the first case, the pair do double damage against an enemy and Nanami is unbalanced. In the latter, Muteiu does his normal damage against the target and Nanami regains about a tenth of her maximum HP.

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Mukumuku helps too, in the way flying squirrel enemies typically attack: he rockets offscreen, pounces on an enemy, and lands with a loud "doink" sound back in the ranks of the party.

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Muteiu: No!!!!!
Rowd: We've got no choice. We'll have to get rough now!

Would you say you're getting... rowdy?

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It's a hopeless fight; there's no way out but to be taken into custody. Rowd is strong enough to KO Mukumuku or Nanami in one, maybe two hits, and has such Defense that even a Family Attack can't break single-digit damage. Throw in the Water Rune that lets him heal any damage he takes, and... yeah. Hopeless.

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If you cheat your levels up enough to actually beat Rowd, he just calls in another dozen soldiers to overwhelm Muteiu without going to a battle scene. There's probably a really good experience or monetary reward for winning what's supposed to be a story-loss fight, but by the time you can earn it, you don't need it anymore.

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Re: Let's Play Suikoden 2!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Postby nosimpleway » Sun Apr 20, 2014 7:37 pm

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Jowy: Well then, I guess you don't believe me......
Marcel: That's right. Once you were my unworthy son, but no longer. From this day on, you are no longer an Atreides.
Jowy: Why... why won't you believe what I say..... I... I'm your son, aren't I?... Or is the blood in my veins....

Jowy is actually Marcel's stepson, since his mother married up into the rich nobility as her second marriage.

Marcel: It hurts to look at you, Jowy I can't recognize someone who has committed treason as a member of the Atreides Clan.
Jowy: ...............

Lack of period Marcel's, not mine. Jowy makes up for it, though.

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Marco: Goodbye, big brother. You're not my big brother anymore Goodbye Jowy.

Incorrect punctuation is hereditary.

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Marcel: Rosa said she doesn't want to see you.....
Jowy: You lie!!! Stop! Let me go!!! I want to see my mother....

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Re: Let's Play Suikoden 2!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Postby nosimpleway » Sun Apr 20, 2014 7:49 pm

Music: Tension

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Nanami: We did our best....... But, why do they think you're spies?
Rowd: I'll tell you.

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Jowy: Why did you?... What was that State attack?... Who was that man?!
Rowd: I'm sorry, Muteiu, Jowy. That man, Prince Luca Blight of Highland, has great ambitions. And I have ambitions as well.
Nanami: Prince???
Jowy: Why would one of the royalty....
Rowd: Luca Blight needed a sacrifice to achieve his ambitions. The Royal Highland Youth Brigade was massacred by the State. This will be enough to whip the people up into a frenzy! So what do you think little girl? Aren't those City-State monsters just horrible?
Nanami: Th, that's....... If I thought that Muteiu and Jowy had been killed by the State... I could never have forgived them, but.... I didn't know...
Rowd: Exactly. And if it's not found out, a lie becomes the truth. Prince Luca needs to stir up the people to achieve his plans. And I have big plans too. I don't want to be captain of a bunch of kids. I want a job where I can make some real money.

Expanded works give Rowd a sick sister who needs expensive medicine for treatment, and that's why he's so driven by money.

Rowd: To do that, I need you two to die as a pair of treacherous spies. The truth of what really happened will die with you.

Why anyone thought any sort of justification would work to humanize Rowd is beyond me, though.

Nanami: That's...that's... You can't do that!
Jowy: For that.... for that you killed all my friends.... stole their lives....
Rowd: Forgive me...... That's all I can say.... Well, it's just about time.
Offscreen soldier: Captain Rowd. The preparations are complete.
Rowd: Well, you two.... It's going to be a painful death. For the little lady, too. Oh well, you can't fight destiny.

...is fate unchangeable?

Music: March of the King

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Coachman: They caught some State spies. They're taking them to the scaffold.

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Jillia: How can they be spies..........
Muteiu: We're innocent!!!
Coachman: How dare you!! How many lives were snuffed out because of your treachery....
Jillia: Silence!
Coachman: Princess.....
Jowy: Princess? Well, then remember this... Muteiu and I haven't betrayed this country. This country has betrayed us. I won't forgive this. I cannot.....
Coachman: What did you say!! Who do you think you're speaking to...
Jillia: It's all right. Let him speak. After all, he hasn't long to live....

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Stone cold, Princess Jillia.

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Re: Let's Play Suikoden 2!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Postby nosimpleway » Sun Apr 20, 2014 8:02 pm

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The music cuts out. There's naught to be heard but the sound of Muteiu and Jowy getting flogged, which continues for the entire cutscene.

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Rowd: Good. You've resigned yourself to death. Ah, look at that sunset. It's the last sunset you'll see.

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Rowd: Although I suppose my whole life will change after this sunset as well.

The guards beating Jowy and Muteiu really step it up. The sounds of brutality from just offscreen leave little to the imagination.

Rowd: Up until now I've been forced to babysit this bunch of kids. But my bad luck has come to an end. With this on my record, my future is assured. Soon I'll be captain of a real company in this area....

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Music: Rescue

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Heh heh heh. Or maybe instead of Jowy and Muteiu getting super-extra-flogged it was Flik singlehandedly fighting off every soldier in the execution site.

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With one easy slice, Flik cuts Muteiu and Jowy out of their nooses. With another, he unbinds their hands.

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Viktor: You shouldn't have run off like you did. I was so surprised.
Jowy: Why......
Viktor: Huh? You still don't get it? You two were my prisoners. I can't just give you up so easily.
Flik: This guy is real nosy.
Viktor: Maybe so. Pohl came begging me to pull your chestnuts out of the fire. Hey! Wait!

But it's too late. Rowd, stunned into silence at his quick turn of fate, has found his feet are faster than his tongue.

Viktor: Damn, he ran away! I could have caught him a few years ago.
Jowy: Wait, wait a minute. Nanami, my friend, is being held in the cell. We can't leave her behind.
Muteiu: Let's go save Nanami.
Jowy: Of course, Muteiu.

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Re: Let's Play Suikoden 2!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Postby nosimpleway » Sun Apr 20, 2014 8:08 pm

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The party is now Muteiu, Jowy, Viktor, and Flik. The last two are both at level 20, making them as badass against enemies ingame as the previous cutscene led you to believe.

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At the prison site...

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...Nanami charges through a half-dozen guards just as we arrive.

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She'll pound you guys into the wall without even noticing, so you might wanna...

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Yeah, run away.

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Nanami chases the guards past the party, stops at the edge of the screen, and turns back.

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Jowy: We came to... save you....
Nanami: Huh? What? That's funny. I was coming to save you guys, too.
Jowy: By the way, what was that move before?...
Nanami: Huh??? Oh! Don't worry about it. Let's just get out of here.

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Re: Let's Play Suikoden 2!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Postby TA » Sun Apr 20, 2014 8:28 pm

nosimpleway wrote:Image


One of these things is not like the other ...
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Re: Let's Play Suikoden 2!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Postby Thad » Sun Apr 20, 2014 8:55 pm

nosimpleway wrote:The party is now Muteiu, Jowy, Viktor, and Flik. The last two are both at level 20, making them as badass against enemies ingame as the previous cutscene led you to believe.


Bears adding that this is because you imported your save from the first game; otherwise, they start around the same level as everyone else (IIRC).

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Re: Let's Play Suikoden 2!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Postby Thad » Mon Apr 21, 2014 2:09 am

Also bears adding: Mukumuku is the first optional recruit in the game and one of the most vexing. There's really nothing to indicate that he's there, or that you're even looking for optional recruits this early (in the first game you don't start recruiting until after you've got the castle); basically, you're probably not going to find him unless you already know he's there.

Which wouldn't be so bad except that (1) he's required in order to recruit OTHER characters later down the line and (2) it's a very long time before you're allowed back into this town. (I don't remember if it's past the deadline for getting all 108 stars in time to get the Good Ending or not but it's possible -- I guess we'll get to that later.)

One of the later recruits is a detective who drops hints on all the characters you haven't recruited yet. I remember being pretty confused and frustrated by Mukumuku (and the other characters who you can't recruit without him).

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Re: Let's Play Suikoden 2!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Postby nosimpleway » Mon Apr 21, 2014 8:52 am

If you miss him here, you can get him the same unintuitive way you get the others.

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Re: Let's Play Suikoden 2!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Postby Thad » Mon Apr 21, 2014 10:24 am

Hm, don't know if I didn't know that or just forgot it. Pain in the ass either way.

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Re: Let's Play Suikoden 2!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Postby nosimpleway » Tue Apr 22, 2014 7:24 pm

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There's a bit where Nanami looks back with longing on her shithole hometown. :shrug:

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I've gotta go through North Sparrow Pass again, but with Viktor and Flik on the team there's no challenge whatsoever.

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There's a bit where Flik berates the State soldiers for trading a handjob for border access. :shrug:

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Flik: What? This junky fort?
Viktor: Watch your mouth. I like this place. It's got a certain charm. Right, Muteiu, Jowy?
Nanami: This place?... Hmmm... I wonder...
Viktor: Ha ha ha ha ha! A kid can't appreciate its greatness. Well, I'm gonna go relax for a while. You must be tired too, so take a nice rest. If you have questions, ask Leona. She's the woman who runs the bar.
Jowy: So we're prisoners, I guess.....
Viktor: Huh? Well, that's true, but..... as long as you don't make trouble, you're free to do what you want. Why don't you go find recruits? We always need more of them.
Flik: Take it easy here until things cool down. Meanwhile I'll think of a good way to get back to Highland.

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So... there's a bit of nonlinear play here. We're asked to go find recruits.

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The monsters in the area have taken a step up from what they were before. The bouncing furballs drop a Celadon Urn, so score for me.

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One small advantage of animal recruits -- yes, Mukumuku is a Star of Destiny too -- is that they don't need expensive weapon upgrades.

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In Ryube, there's a ronin who's nearly passed out from starvation. Feeding him...

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...is one recruit.

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Re: Let's Play Suikoden 2!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Postby nosimpleway » Tue Apr 22, 2014 7:37 pm

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This young woman lost her beloved pet, so the group joins her in exploring the forest to look for him.

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On the way, Muteiu stops to put a fallen baby bird back in its nest.

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There's a cabin at the end of the mountain path, but it's empty. Guess little Bonaparte didn't come this way.

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Kinnison the hunter and his wolf companion Shiro are impressed at our compassion for the tiniest of creatures, though.

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So that's two more recruits, one bow-hunter and another savage animal.

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Oh, there he is! Bonaparte runs away with a squeak.

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