Randomization

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nosimpleway
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Randomization

Postby nosimpleway » Sat Apr 18, 2015 10:59 am

So I tried a couple of the game randomizers from the Talking Time thread on the topic.

Here is a result:

Super Metroid, patched with the Super Metroid Door Randomizer v0.3a. As you may have guessed, the Door Randomizer randomizes where you go when you go through a door! How intuitive.

The first part of the game, from Ceres to the discovery of the Morph Ball and first missile battery, doesn't seem to get randomized. Only afterwards do the doors get shuffled. I have the randomization set to 100%, so no door will lead where it should, and the randomization is "global", so it'll warp anywhere between Crateria/Brinstar/Maridia/Norfair/Wrecked Ship. Tourian doesn't seem to be on deck.

Going back into a door you just came out of doesn't lead to the same room you just left. Otherwise the game would be theoretically unwinnable when every branch ends up leading to a dead-end.

As it is, it's only functionally unwinnable.

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Mothra
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Re: Randomization

Postby Mothra » Sat Apr 18, 2015 11:12 am

Every game becomes the Lost Woods

Wait so, at the very start of Super Metroid, when you're escaping the science facility and the timer is running down, you just run through the first door and suddenly you're in the ghost ship?

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nosimpleway
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Re: Randomization

Postby nosimpleway » Sat Apr 18, 2015 11:50 am

The path through Ceres station isn't randomized, nor is the direct path to the Morph Ball and first Missile upgrade. Should you backtrack along that path, you're also guaranteed the Bombs right where you expect them.

Beyond that, each door is has a percentage chance -- determined when you apply the patch -- to lead somewhere different.

So if you take the blue door you see in the first vertical shaft in Crateria, you're in random land without getting the Morph Ball, Missiles, or Bombs (normally it's a room that you need Bombs to clear through to get a missile pack). If you take the door I did, no Bombs for you.

I played a bit beyond this part, returning to the ship whenever I could to act as a save point, and ended up with the Grappling Beam, Wave Beam, and Screw Attack before I ran into too many dead-ends to continue. The game loves throwing you into hot Norfair rooms without a chance to get the Varia.

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zaratustra
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Re: Randomization

Postby zaratustra » Sun Apr 19, 2015 12:53 pm

Super Metroid Route Randomizer is more solid. (solider?) It links all rooms properly, and tries to assemble a cohesive world that you can get through from end to end.

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Caithness
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Re: Randomization

Postby Caithness » Sun May 10, 2015 2:01 pm

You could have used the power bomb to go down the shaft and get an energy tank in that dead-end room. I think.

EDIT: Oh, I didn't have annotations turned on.

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Re: Randomization

Postby Caithness » Sun May 10, 2015 2:05 pm

Reminds me of playing with the screen-skip glitch in Link's Awakening.

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nosimpleway
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Re: Randomization

Postby nosimpleway » Wed Jun 10, 2015 9:31 pm

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I'm lifting my self-imposed Pokemon ban because the Joey challenge sounded like an interesting spin. Nuzlocke is that you catch one mon per zone, and release it if it faints. Joey is that you have exactly one mon: a humble Rattata. Other mons are only available as HM slaves, as necessary. Rattata isn't allowed to evolve, but TM and Move Tutor moves are okay.

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Given the thread this is in, it may not surprise you to learn that I'm also running the game through a randomizer to switch up mons, trainers, and items. I gave the rival Riou a Dratini, because... well, because.

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I put in the National Dex as default, and all mons included in gen 3 are available. Here's a few of the wild encounters around routes 1 and 2.

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The rival fight on Route 22 has him pick up a Bagon to go along with his Dratini. Theme team much?

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Yeah, don't you forget it.

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nosimpleway
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Re: Randomization

Postby nosimpleway » Wed Jun 10, 2015 9:37 pm

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Wild Latiases roam in Viridian Forest. They make good training fodder for Brock's gym, because while their levels are quite low, they're still legendaries, and give legendary-appropriate experience for their level: more than the trainer battles with their crappy mons...

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...like Sunkern. Bug Catchers are still kind of pathetic.

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Rattata peaks early. Hyper Fang, at 80 attack and 90 accuracy, is his bread and butter.

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Thank heaven for small favors: Brock's gym is randomized into Not Rock Themed. The camper out front throws out Charmander...

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Brock himself is fond of Numel and Charmeleon.

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Liar!

The contents of TMs are also shuffled into random moves, and whether they work on each mon is equally random. Most TMs are now utter shit, and those that would be useful, Rattata can't learn. Oh well!

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Shit. Nothing I can do against this girl, her ghosts are immune to Tackle, Tail Whip, Hyper Fang, and Quick Attack.

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nosimpleway
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Re: Randomization

Postby nosimpleway » Wed Jun 10, 2015 9:41 pm

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The Magikarp Salesman hands off something rather more useful than a Magikarp.

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There's no telling which mons will be able to learn the HM moves I'll need to complete the game, so I pick them up and dump them in the PC when I can.

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Spoiler: this happens about sixty more times.

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Celebis replace Zubats in the top level of Mt. Moon, I run into dozens of them.

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Milotics prowl the lower reaches. I probably won't mention wild mons much, but suffice to say the guys I have listed as Seen in the National Dex is pretty thorough by the time I'm done.

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Yes, I am also in the cave.

(Why would my screencap software default to including the cursor? That's dumb.)

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I find some Leftovers near the end of Mt. Moon. TopPercent grabs on and never lets go.

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The Move Tutors outside the back end of Mt. Moon normally teach Mega Punch and Mega Kick, but that's been replaced by different stuff.

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nosimpleway
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Re: Randomization

Postby nosimpleway » Wed Jun 10, 2015 9:52 pm

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It's just a Rattata. Honest.

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The challenges in Rattatagame are myraid. Put simply, Rattata sucks. What would you expect from the poster-child of Com Mons? Speed and Attack are middlin' at best, and defenses and HP will always be terrible. Its default movepool doesn't give it much of a fighting chance against the Fighting-, Ghost-, Rock-, and Steel-types that will always give it trouble. Here we see TopPercentage laid low by a Mankey nearly half its experience level.

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It picks up Pursuit, which is... not great, as Ghost-killers go. Even on a crit it can't one-shot this Duskull.

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Misty has traded in Staryu and Starmie for a Nuzleaf and a Vileplume. As a reward, she gives the TM for Water Pulse Poison Gas. The person down the street who had a TM stolen by Team Rocket is the one with Water Pulse (rather than Dig).

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More lies, the Diglett's Cave is full of Azurills and the occasional Miltank.

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I catch a Torchic on Route 9 and teach it to Cut. Rattata's moves are already terrible, I'm not going to burden him with such a lousy move!

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Surge lets loose a Carvanha, Carvanha, Sharpedo. Their Rough Skin highlights another problem with Rattata's moveset: all its moves make physical contact, so abilities like Static, Cute Charm, or yes, Rough Skin will always have a chance to proc.

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The aides only looks at the Kanto dex when determining whether to give you the HM for Flash, or the ItemFinder or EXP Share or whatever. Oh well.

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nosimpleway
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Re: Randomization

Postby nosimpleway » Wed Jun 10, 2015 9:56 pm

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Between their Steel typing and their reliance on the nasty Take Down, Beldums prove to be a major pain for most of the game. They're oddly common, too.

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Eventually Torchic grows into a Combusken from fights like this.

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Th... that's no Eevee!

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Erika is electric-themed, with a party centered around Electabuzz.

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Jirachi's signature move, in TM form. And TopPercent can learn it! But honestly, virtually no fights go on long enough for that to be worthwhile. Rattata absolutely must sweep everything in one hit, or get KOed by the counterattack.

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Giovanni: fond of bugs.

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nosimpleway
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Re: Randomization

Postby nosimpleway » Wed Jun 10, 2015 10:00 pm

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Nice, now I can go get that Fearow.

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It's a rat, you dick!

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Figures. That'd be far too convenient.

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Sh... shouldn't Riou have evolved this guy by now?

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Lapras, Lunatone, what's the difference? (Oddly, the Lunatone was dumped into my party both Poisoned and Asleep. Normally that's not even possible.)

Giovanni still likes bugs. He's sticking to his theme better than the rival does.

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Sabrina and her entire gym are remodeled to be more like the Fighting Dojo next door. That's right, they're all type-advantaged against poor Rattata! Sabrina's got a Machamp, a Medicham, and a Heracross.

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This... does not go well the first time.

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nosimpleway
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Re: Randomization

Postby nosimpleway » Wed Jun 10, 2015 10:02 pm

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The ghost of Marowak was still a Marowak, by the way.

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Ho-oh-oh-oh-ho-lee shit that's not a Snorlax that's not a Snorlax

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It used Whirlwind to end the battle instantly, so I had to reload and throw my Master Ball at it.

What? Ho-oh was one of the mons I never had back when I played these games for serious. It's worth the novelty.

The other Snorlax is...

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...rather less threatening or interesting.

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You're not helping.

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He wanted a Jolteon.

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ummm excuse u

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nosimpleway
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Re: Randomization

Postby nosimpleway » Wed Jun 10, 2015 10:10 pm

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Look at that capybara motherfucker

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Koga has traded his Poison mons for Psychic ones. His Gardevoir has both Double Team and Calm Mind, making it extremely difficult.

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Dragonites roam wild in the Safari Zone.

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And Sudowoodos infest the watery areas nearby. I enjoy the irony; I'd have taught it Surf if it could learn it.

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Close! But this is the Old Amber, not the Helix Fossil.

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Blaine has traded Fire for Rock. That's a problem.

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Onix, Graveler, Golem, and... well, the last guy is kind of a bitch to get to, since both Graveler and Golem have SelfDestruct. That's enough to oneshot poor TopPercent, no matter what.

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Third or fourth try: last guy's Tyranitar. And it squooshes TopPercent with Rock Slide a couple of times.

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Christ finally.

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nosimpleway
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Re: Randomization

Postby nosimpleway » Wed Jun 10, 2015 10:15 pm

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No joke, after Blaine's terrible exploding rock team Giovanni is still throwing out Butterfrees and Beautiflys. The only thing that gives me any pause is his Scyther, which manages to Double Team and Swords Dance and Double Team and Swords Dance and then Slash for a one-hit KO. Sure wish I had some moves with better hit percentages than Hyper Fang!

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For the final trek into Victory Road, Riou has decked himself out with an all-ghost team. Well, almost all: he still finishes Dusclops-Sableye-Gengar-Gastly with a Dratini that really should be a Dragonite by now. If I had known he'd be locked out of evolving I'd have given him something that doesn't need evolving in the first place.

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Right. So not much of note happens in Victory Road, except...

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I pick up Lugia's signature move out of a TM.

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nosimpleway
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Re: Randomization

Postby nosimpleway » Wed Jun 10, 2015 10:18 pm

So let's wrap this up...


Shit.

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zaratustra
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Re: Randomization

Postby zaratustra » Thu Jun 11, 2015 6:58 am


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nosimpleway
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Re: Randomization

Postby nosimpleway » Sat Aug 06, 2016 10:04 pm

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Okay I picked up this new ROM looks p cool

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It's all in Japanese though so I don't understand any of the story or anything.

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The story starts with our hero getting out of bed and collecting his possessions before leaving the house, but all he has is a single arrow. Dude's like, super broke.

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Maybe he's got so little because he only woke up when this guy finished stealing all of the stuff in his house, so he chased him into the basement of some castle to get his stuff back once he passed out.

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While he's here he swipes just a shitton of money from the castle vaults. I guess he's a thief himself, or a freedom fighter sticking it to The Man or something.

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He even frees a prisoner from the dungeons

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although why she was locked up with a key to her own cell I don't really understand.

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Anyway they escape through more underground passages, guy finds some more money in chests, and a gem of some sort. He drops her off at a church and heads out. I still don't really know what's going on but the priest marked a spot on my map over in a nearby town so I guess that's where I'm going.

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nosimpleway
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Re: Randomization

Postby nosimpleway » Sat Aug 06, 2016 10:10 pm

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The guy finds some more money and some pieces of a heart amulet or something in these chests in town, so that's pretty cool I guess.

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Oh yeah I found a blue staff in the forest in what looked like a little mushroom patch or something, and picked up some boots in that basement. Down at the bottom of the well I found this... I dunno. Water sigil, maybe?

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This asshole took 100 of my money and gave me 50 back in change, maybe I got some enchantment or something but I didn't notice any passive effect.

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dude's all about them dolla billz

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I also find a lantern squirreled away in another cave somewhere. I mean there are probably a lot of dark passages in the game and the lantern gives me a little radius of light to work in, beats being in pitch-black darkness and stumbling around into monsters if I didn't snag it early on, which I guess is a thing that happens.

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I think this guy is another freedom fighter or something because his back room was stuffed with bombs. idk what he's plotting because he's never shown, like, blowing anything up.

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nosimpleway
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Re: Randomization

Postby nosimpleway » Sat Aug 06, 2016 10:18 pm

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The other freedom fighter lives in some ruins, and our guy explores them a bit to raid the vault inside.

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Partway through the dungeon I run into a monster that I can't kill with any tool I've found so far so I guess it's back outside to look around some more.

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Back in town this sleepy kid wakes up and gives me a glove that lets me pick stuff up, so that's cool.

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I'm not sure where to go next so I end up breaking back into the castle and getting into a side passage I couldn't get to before. There's a butterfly net in one chest, some ever-important money in the middle, but whatever was in the one on the left rotted and all I got was a handful of moldy fungus.

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And then there's this asshole, who took $500 and gave me back $20. So whatever effect it had, it damn well better have been important!

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Anyway I found this panel in the woods

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The town here is monster-infested but I played a game and won a book. Then I found a frog surrounded by stones.

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He follows me around but I guess he's scared of everything because I can't go into houses or caves anymore without him stopping me.

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All these monsters around are really tough and I end up dying.

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When I continue I'm back in my house but the toad is still there.

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There's something I missed near where I found him, I guess? So back on this weird tile thing since I still can't go into houses or anything

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Suddenly he turns into a dwarf. I'm not sure what the hap is fuckening but at least I recognize where he might go now.

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It takes another game over and continue to get back to my house, since I haven't found any way out of the, like, autumn world or whatever. Everything's brown there so it's as good as guess as any.

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Anyway the toad turned into a blacksmith and they give me a better sword than the one I had, which is nice.

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