Game of Thrones: The TV Show

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Esperath
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Re: Game of Thrones: The TV Show

Postby Esperath » Wed May 15, 2019 2:22 pm

Gummiw wrote:not at all humble brag, oh right something something game of thrones
pisa katto

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pisa katto

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beatbandito
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Re: Game of Thrones: The TV Show

Postby beatbandito » Wed May 15, 2019 2:24 pm

Did you click the link?

I'm scared.
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Esperath
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Re: Game of Thrones: The TV Show

Postby Esperath » Wed May 15, 2019 2:24 pm

Esperath wrote:
Gummiw wrote:not at all humble brag, oh right something something game of thrones


Oh never mind, you're just a bot pushing property links. To the Thunderdome with you.
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pacobird
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Re: Game of Thrones: The TV Show

Postby pacobird » Wed May 15, 2019 3:07 pm

Rico wrote:I proposed in a conversation with Paul earlier that we pass a law against creators giving completely unearned word of God about their properties, specifically recently targeted at GoT and Endgame but of course called the Rowling Act.


I am also a strong proponent of Death of the Author.
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Mongrel
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Re: Game of Thrones: The TV Show

Postby Mongrel » Wed May 15, 2019 3:55 pm

lol French Riviera what

That's a new one for a bot, I must say.
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beatbandito
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Re: Game of Thrones: The TV Show

Postby beatbandito » Wed May 15, 2019 4:49 pm

I did it, guys.

I bought foreign property online from a forum bot that looks for game of thrones discussions.

And it was the best decision of my life.
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Brentai
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Re: Game of Thrones: The TV Show

Postby Brentai » Wed May 15, 2019 4:57 pm

Please don't move this, I'm in love with the mental image of a retro beep boop silver robot in its underwear sadly watching the final episode of Game of Thrones all alone in its French Riviera beach house.

Chadbot all alone.

Why bitches not love Chadbot?
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pacobird
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Re: Game of Thrones: The TV Show

Postby pacobird » Fri May 17, 2019 8:38 pm

Brentai wrote:Why bitches not love Chadbot?


Because d and d cut out all the stuff about dragonbinders so chadbot is just a plot device to give the Lannisters a fighting chance
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Grath
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Re: Game of Thrones: The TV Show

Postby Grath » Fri May 17, 2019 8:45 pm

pacobird wrote:
Brentai wrote:Why bitches not love Chadbot?


Because d and d cut out all the stuff about dragonbinders so chadbot is just a plot device to give the Lannisters a fighting chance

Wait, there are trans dragons who want to bind their breasts in the books? Huh.

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pacobird
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Re: Game of Thrones: The TV Show

Postby pacobird » Fri May 17, 2019 9:50 pm

I would say read the books but HOT TAKE ALERT Martin's prose sucks

Basically Books Euron is an actual wizard
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Thad
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Re: Game of Thrones: The TV Show

Postby Thad » Sat May 18, 2019 10:47 pm

patito wrote:
Thad wrote:
beatbandito wrote:Haven't seen it yet, but had this unexpected cameo spoiled.

That coffee cup got more press coverage than the goddamn royal baby. "Burn them all" is a pretty good summation of how I feel about the American news media.



That's actually reasurring about the news media, because nobody should be giving any fucks about royal babies.

You misunderstand.

The baby got way too goddamn much coverage. And the coffee mug is an even less newsworthy thing that got even more news coverage.

ANYWAY!

Finally got around to The Bells and I'm with Paco: contrary to the consensus, it was good.

Everybody behaved in a way that made sense within the context of their character (except Jon for the first 45 minutes). I'm not saying they behaved rationally -- indeed, pretty much nobody did -- but I'm saying they behaved in a way that made sense given their history and past behavior.

Most of my complaints about this episode are actually complaints about previous episodes; they've been clumsily foreshadowing Dany's heel turn for ages but this time they finally took a moment to actually show her grieving and starving herself, and I really think that's what was missing up to this point.

I think a lot of the problems with the last two seasons are down to the demands of the format and the network. Friday said the other day that we could write the show better, and there are certainly places where I agree. But I don't know what could have been done about, say, episode 4. You could combine 1 and 2, but the Battle of Winterfell pretty much had to be an entire 80-minute episode (not necessarily narratively, but for spectacle's sake). And then the following episode winds up being mostly aftermath and then a completely baffling skirmish at the end, which is necessary to set up Dany's actions in the following episode but doesn't make a lick of damn sense -- not tactically, not tonally, and not in terms of pacing. (I'm still trying to figure out if Rhaegal's death was so abrupt and perfunctory out of sheer incompetence, or because it's going to turn out he's still alive.) I think all that shit had to get done, it realistically had to get done over the span of a single episode, and I'm kind of at a loss for how it could have been fixed given those constraints.

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beatbandito
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Re: Game of Thrones: The TV Show

Postby beatbandito » Sat May 18, 2019 11:05 pm

It made sense for the Hound to tell Aria that his journey was one to his own grave and that wasn't the life she wanted, so she should leave. It didn't make sense that moment came after a 2+ day journey sneaking into a city, sneaking into the keep, and waiting until it started to literally collapse.

It made sense for Daeny to go mad. It didn't make sense that moment came a week after most of her own army was wiped out, days after her best friend and second child were killed, hours after she used the most clear-minded strategy of the series to completely eliminate the only remaining threats to her, and right as the sign of total surrender was sounded.

There are lots of people saying that the story has been foreshadowing the moment for forever, and that the sexy eyeshadow was supposed to be our way of knowing she wasn't eating and was finally totally losing it so it was actually well done. But I can not accept that the actual moment and method makes sense. Not from a "all characters should be removed and rational" way, but because knowing the actions she takes, the stimulus, and the context, I can not fathom the exact thought or series of thoughts that could lead to that decision as it played out.

My alternate that could probably be done by anyone with an editor and the aired footage: Daeny sees the keep, maybe even Cersei through the window or whatever. She hears the bells and sees the gates to the red keep opening and thinks "no. Cersei can not just walk away after all she's caused" and immediately assaults the keep, where most of the innocent civilians were also taking refuge. But that's not what happens. She's safe, she's won, she starts with the random people closest to her, and gives Cersei enough time to escape if The Hound and Jaime hadn't slowed her down.
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Thad
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Re: Game of Thrones: The TV Show

Postby Thad » Sun May 19, 2019 12:17 am

I mean if you were expecting time to pass in any kind of way that made sense, I'm pretty sure that ship sailed by season 2 or 3.

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Re: Game of Thrones: The TV Show

Postby Friday » Sun May 19, 2019 3:16 am

I'm not against Dany-As-Mad-Queen in principle, but the way they executed it sucks and is nonsensical.

Here, I'll write it better.

We'll assume I can only change from the point Dany is on the wall looking over the city onward, so I can't go back and change things before that.

Dany is looking out over the city. She's been betrayed. Her friends are dead. Cersei is the architect behind a lot of that. She knows Cersei is there in the window. She knows the city is surrendering, but doesn't care. She wants blood.

She flies at the Red Keep. Drogon starts breathing fire. Cersei blanches and goes inside, escorted by Qyburn and the Mountain and her guard.

We cut to scenes of servants, handmaidens, being burned alive in the keep. Dany's fire is missing its target, she's killing innocents instead. They are the first non-military people Dany has killed in the fight. Long shots linger on them on fire, melting, screaming.

Outside, Dany is losing it. She's insane with grief and rage and the keep has become her outlet for it. She continues to pour fire into it, literally cracking the keep open. More people, soldiers, guards, servants, are shown inside being consumed by fire, crushed by stone.

The Hound shows up, kills guards, squares off with the Mountain, who does not kill Qyburn. Instead both he and Cersei leave, alone now. Cleganebowl happens as it did.

Cersei knows she's lost. She knows she's gonna die. But she's a vindictive bitch and she doesn't want Dany to rule either. She knows about the wildfire under the city. She knows Dany will take the blame for detonating it. She turns to Qyburn and orders him to detonate all the wildfire under the city. Qyburn is loyal. "As you wish, My Queen," he says.

Cut to Jamie, watching from the shadows. What a familiar scene for him.

He kills Qyburn, turns to Cersei, kills her. Then he dies from his wounds from Queen-Fucker the character.

Meanwhile Dany has not let up her assault. The Keep is aflame. People are running out of the keep. She sees them, sees mostly guards, burns them. More shots of burning soldiers, more shots of burning servants. A nearby cache of wildfire detonates, starting a chain reaction.

Meanwhile, the Soldiers who have surrendered in front of Jon and Grey Worm, witnessing the Dothraki raping women and Dany setting the keep on fire + wildfire, pick up their swords and start fighting again. Jon is sad but starts fighting. He tries to keep a Dothraki from raping a woman, has to kill him. He realizes he can't stop this fight.

Dany sees the fighting resume in the city. She's still crazy. He eyes have fire backlit in them. The troops that surrendered are fighting again? Tyrion fucked up again? Burn them.

She's targeting the soldiers but hitting civilians as well. Long lingering shots on dead, melted women, men, kids. More fire in Dany's eyes as she flies above. She smiles slightly. She's enjoying the power. She doesn't really see the dead innocents, only the armies melting at her whim.

Arya finds a random horse and leaves.

All outcomes the same.
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beatbandito
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Re: Game of Thrones: The TV Show

Postby beatbandito » Sun May 19, 2019 7:15 am

After making my post last night, my favorite GoT analyzer finally got their video up for this episode, and of course it's mostly about that choice. It presents what I think is the best (and only so far) argument for why that exact moment is the one where Daeny snaps. Even then, in the best case scenario 1) This is the breaker of chains and defender of innocents who has only ever warcrimed on lords or the equivalent, and 2)
Thad wrote:I mean if you were expecting time to pass in any kind of way that made sense, I'm pretty sure that ship sailed by season 2 or 3.

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Re: Game of Thrones: The TV Show

Postby Thad » Sun May 19, 2019 1:33 pm

Friday wrote:Here, I'll write it better.

While your version improves on D&D's in a number of ways (chiefly logistically), I disagree on one fundamental point.

I think it's essential that Dany's decision to slaughter everybody after they surrender is not the result of any confusion or misunderstanding. While misunderstanding is a ripe narrative vein (we are, after all, here because a couple of decades ago the Starks mistook an elopement for an abduction), I don't think it works here; I think it's vital that Dany is in possession of all the facts, understands them correctly, and based on everything she's seen and experienced she reaches a sober and clear-eyed conclusion that there will never be peace as long as a single person in King's Landing lives -- and that includes women and children. She tried sparing a woman once after a Dothraki conquest; how'd that work out for her?

This is Dany's homeland, but she's a stranger here. She's foreign to these people, and they to her. Everything's gone wrong since she came to Westeros; it wasn't the homecoming she imagined -- she hasn't, to coin a phrase, been greeted as a liberator. And every last Westerosi ally has betrayed her. She can't trust Those People. Not a one of them.

I had conversations with right-wingers during the Iraq invasion who spoke with no compunction about killing women and children -- "The children will just grow up to be like their parents." That mindset is fucking chilling. And it's where Dany is now.

All her life, she thought these were her people. But they're not. They never were.

Burn them all.

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Friday
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Re: Game of Thrones: The TV Show

Postby Friday » Sun May 19, 2019 1:50 pm

Agree to disagree, then. I maintain the execution was clumsy and far too "zero to one hundred" and the build up to her heel turn was rushed. Again, not mad that she's bad now, just irritated that it was done poorly.
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pacobird
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Re: Game of Thrones: The TV Show

Postby pacobird » Sun May 19, 2019 10:54 pm

DUNE ENDING CALLED IT
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Grath
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Re: Game of Thrones: The TV Show

Postby Grath » Sun May 19, 2019 10:59 pm

Friday wrote:Agree to disagree, then. I maintain the execution was clumsy and far too "zero to one hundred" and the build up to her heel turn was rushed. Again, not mad that she's bad now, just irritated that it was done poorly.

I mean, the problem with seasons 7 and 8 are that they ran out of character-driven writing, and instead they've got "well this is how I plan on wrapping it up" from GRRM, so they've been kludging the characters to hit the plot-points they were told to hit.

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Rico
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Re: Game of Thrones: The TV Show

Postby Rico » Mon May 20, 2019 2:07 am


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