The Star Trek Thread

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Büge
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Re: The Star Trek Thread

Postby Büge » Sat Jun 20, 2020 11:15 am

ha ha Trip is suddenly moody and hormonal and acting like the Engineering bay is unsafe for children

ha ha he got violated by an alien and now he's acting like a pregnant lady

ha ha it's funny when it happens to men
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Brentai
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Re: The Star Trek Thread

Postby Brentai » Sat Jun 20, 2020 12:48 pm

JD wrote:Earth is revealed to be only 80 hours away from the Klingon homeworld at Warp 5 yet they have somehow never gone to war.


Klingons are all about consent.
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JD
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Re: The Star Trek Thread

Postby JD » Sun Jul 05, 2020 7:18 am

Let me tell you about a really dumb Enterprise episode I just watched called Dear Doctor:

So Enterprise is set pre-TOS, meaning it has a great opportunity to establish things like what horrible consequences must have occurred for Starfleet to not only create a strict policy of non-interference in pre-Warp cultures, but make it their literal number one rule, and enforcing that rule even if it means allowing millions of sentient beings to die of preventable disaster.

Now, Voyager actually did this really well in its last season with the episode Friendship One, about a civilization which destroyed itself with antimatter technology acquired from an early unmanned ship sent from Earth in 2067. The thing is, Earth never found out about this until Voyager discovered it over 300 years later.

The writers of Enterprise therefore had a great opportunity to do a great episode establishing the need for the Prime Directive, either where the lack of such a rule leads to disaster, or where refusing to interfere ultimately saves the day. Instead, they wrote an episode called Dear Doctor. It goes like this:

Enterprise encounters a pre-warp race suffering from a mysterious illness. The Prime Directive hasn't been invented yet, so Captain Archer immediately has his doctor start work on a cure. It turns out this race is exploiting another less advanced humanoid species on their planet, something which the humans find distasteful, but Doctor Phlox thinks it's fine by his moral standards.

This is until he discovers that it's a genetic condition: somehow, the entire species has suddenly evolved shitty health, and will probably die out within a few generations. The non-dominant species, the Menk, are suddenly evolving to become more intelligent, so that once the dominant all die out, the Menk will inherit the earth.

Phlox was happy to maintain the status quo when the thought it was a virus or something, but now that it's a genetic illness, he decides it's only natural and right for the dominant aliens to all die painfully, and to cure it would be playing god. Phlox isn't acting on the taboo on genetic engineering we see in chronologically later Star Trek or anything; the Federation doesn't even exist at this point. His bizarre moral argument is that if he does nothing, one race would die out while another thrives; therefore, he must do nothing to avoid changing the fate of an entire species.

Now, in the original script, the episode was going to be about Phlox was disobeying his Captain on moral grounds. However, at the last minute the higher-ups at Paramount put out an edict that the crew needs to be unwaveringly loyal to their Captain. This may have something to do with the fact that they were working on this episode in October 2001, right after 9/11, which may also be why later episodes follow a plotline where alien terrorists attack Earth and Enterprise takes on soldiers.

So in order to avoid this conflict, there's a scene where Archer has a change of heart and decides to agree with Phlox, even though in another episode set about a month earlier he deliberately refused to adopt the Vulcan non-interference policy. His logic is that maybe one day, mankind will adopt a non-interference policy - he literally pauses and says "directive", just so that we the viewer know what he's talking about, and it is one of the dumbest lines in Enterprise - he decides that he's going to have to just ad-hoc adopt a non-interference policy in the meantime, for this one specific case, just to appease Phlox's dumb logic.

According to extended universe material, nobody else ever develops a cure for the disease. Their species join the Federation around the time of Star Trek: Discovery, and by the end of Voyager there are fewer than a million of their species left. This is despite the fact that Phlox actually succeeded at developing a cure; he just refuses to give it to them.

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mharr
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Re: The Star Trek Thread

Postby mharr » Sun Jul 05, 2020 12:19 pm

What I'm hearing is the new hyper-capitalist dystopian Federation of Picard isn't really all that new and was gradually retconned into existence over many years and series'.

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Friday
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Re: The Star Trek Thread

Postby Friday » Sun Jul 05, 2020 12:36 pm

The decline started with Voyager (well, technically with DS9, but they did it smartly) and has gradually worsened with each new Star Trek they made. I remember when Enterprise was the "This isn't Star Trek" before the new movies weren't, then Discovery was the absolute bottom of the barrel, then Picard just kept digging under the barrel.
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beatbandito
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Re: The Star Trek Thread

Postby beatbandito » Sun Jul 05, 2020 12:54 pm

DS9, Voyager and Enterprise were all a new generation from tos and tng without Roddenberry.

From what I know (mostly from third-hand YouTube lore videos) it seems like the dominion war is pretty directly responsible for the shittier world and starfleet in Picard, and I guess Discovery.
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Friday
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Re: The Star Trek Thread

Postby Friday » Sun Jul 05, 2020 1:33 pm

Roddenberry is an interesting influence on Trek, because holy shit antisemite and a bunch of other terrible shit, but also he would never have allowed Trek to degenerate into ninjas decapitating people.
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Mongrel
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Re: The Star Trek Thread

Postby Mongrel » Sun Jul 05, 2020 2:36 pm

Brentai wrote:
JD wrote:Earth is revealed to be only 80 hours away from the Klingon homeworld at Warp 5 yet they have somehow never gone to war.


Klingons are all about consent.

Look man, you're not fucking Lursa or B'Etor unless they want you to.
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