The Star Trek Thread

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Thad
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Re: The Star Trek Thread

Postby Thad » Mon Nov 02, 2015 9:32 pm

Well, and the last two Star Trek movies, most notably.

Dude's got a really mixed resume. Sleepy Hollow, Scorpion, Fringe, Cowboys and Aliens, The Island, Alias, Hercules and Xena, and also the Locke and Key pilot (which I haven't seen but I heard was really good). Hell, even the last two Star Trek movies fit the "That's good! ...that's bad." pattern. (Though I guess every pair of consecutive Star Trek movies does.)

I mean, we don't know who else is going to be working on the show, or even what the premise is going to be, when it's going to be set, what characters and actors will be in it, etc. I think it's fair to assume it'll have its good episodes and its bad ones, same as any of the others.

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Re: The Star Trek Thread

Postby Thad » Mon Nov 02, 2015 9:42 pm

TA wrote:This is the first major project he's done without being attached to Roberto Orci, the deranged 9/11 truther. So I would expect it'd be a step above.


I don't really see how that's pertinent, unless we're talking about plot points that specifically relate to being a 9/11 truther (like Into Darkness's plot about false-flag terrorist attacks intended to ignite a war with the Klingons -- which wasn't even close to being the worst part of that movie). Being a 9/11 truther doesn't automatically make you a bad storyteller; neither does not being a 9/11 truther automatically make you a good storyteller.

There are a lot of stories I like by people whose political views I don't agree with, and a lot of stories I don't like by people whose political views I do agree with. (Hell, speaking of 9/11 truthers, I still love me some Rick Veitch.) Extrapolating that Kurtzman is the more-talented partner simply based on his not (to our knowledge) buying into any ridiculous conspiracy theories is a bit of a stretch.

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Re: The Star Trek Thread

Postby TA » Mon Nov 02, 2015 10:00 pm

Thad wrote:Well, and the last two Star Trek movies, most notably.

Dude's got a really mixed resume. Sleepy Hollow, Scorpion, Fringe, Cowboys and Aliens, The Island, Alias, Hercules and Xena, and also the Locke and Key pilot (which I haven't seen but I heard was really good). Hell, even the last two Star Trek movies fit the "That's good! ...that's bad." pattern. (Though I guess every pair of consecutive Star Trek movies does.)

I mean, we don't know who else is going to be working on the show, or even what the premise is going to be, when it's going to be set, what characters and actors will be in it, etc. I think it's fair to assume it'll have its good episodes and its bad ones, same as any of the others.


It's hard to tell how much of Star Trek 2009 was Abrams, how much was Orci, how much was Kurtzman. Into Darkness being a thinly veiled expose about how bush did 9/11 certainly implies it's much more of Orci's baby.
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Re: The Star Trek Thread

Postby Thad » Mon Nov 02, 2015 11:24 pm

That's mostly just the first act, though; the last half-hour was pretty much just "Hey, remember Wrath of Khan? Huh? Huh?"

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Re: The Star Trek Thread

Postby Smiler » Mon Dec 14, 2015 2:49 pm




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Re: The Star Trek Thread

Postby Mongrel » Mon Dec 14, 2015 3:03 pm

Star Trek really is gone, isn't it?

;___;
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Re: The Star Trek Thread

Postby Mothra » Mon Dec 14, 2015 3:19 pm

The introduction of an alien race seems like it could be a good direction for the series to take! Maybe we'll get a TNG-style mediation of two disparate cultures, with Federation ideals explored in an engaging real-world conte-

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Re: The Star Trek Thread

Postby Mongrel » Mon Dec 14, 2015 3:43 pm

^ Basically 1:52 sums it up.
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Re: The Star Trek Thread

Postby Büge » Mon Dec 14, 2015 4:23 pm

And here I thought Guardians of the Galaxy 2 wasn't coming until 2017.

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Re: The Star Trek Thread

Postby Spooky Skeleton » Mon Dec 14, 2015 6:03 pm

In January 2015 after Orci's departure, Simon Pegg and Doug Jung were hired to rewrite the screenplay . . . On the original draft by Orci, Pegg commented that Paramount "had a script for Star Trek that wasn't really working for them. I think the studio was worried that it might have been a little bit too Star Trek-y." For his role as the primary screenwriter, Pegg had been asked to make this new film "more inclusive", stating that the solution was to "make a western or a thriller or a heist movie, then populate that with Star Trek characters so it's more inclusive to an audience that might be a little bit reticent."


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Re: The Star Trek Thread

Postby beatbandito » Mon Dec 14, 2015 6:24 pm

Well, if Star Wars keeps up with the pace of the prequels then the two franchises may have just swapped themes.

I'm seriously disappointed that Simon Pegg is not only being a part of this, but actively adding to it.
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Re: The Star Trek Thread

Postby Mongrel » Mon Dec 14, 2015 7:10 pm

Spooky Skeleton wrote:
In January 2015 after Orci's departure, Simon Pegg and Doug Jung were hired to rewrite the screenplay . . . On the original draft by Orci, Pegg commented that Paramount "had a script for Star Trek that wasn't really working for them. I think the studio was worried that it might have been a little bit too Star Trek-y." For his role as the primary screenwriter, Pegg had been asked to make this new film "more inclusive", stating that the solution was to "make a western or a thriller or a heist movie, then populate that with Star Trek characters so it's more inclusive to an audience that might be a little bit reticent."


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Re: The Star Trek Thread

Postby Thad » Tue Dec 15, 2015 12:21 pm

Welp, serve me right for thinking that Orci leaving and Pegg co-writing the script were good signs.

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Re: The Star Trek Thread

Postby TA » Tue Dec 15, 2015 4:16 pm

I can't blame anyone for not wanting the new film to be "too Star Trek-y". You want a movie that's really, really "Star Trek-y"? Watch Star Trek: The Motion Picture, and try not to kill yourself.

We have Orci and especially Lindelof nowhere to be found. Simon Pegg is on script. Justin Lin is directing. These are all very good things that tend to suggest a smart, well-put-together, and enjoyable movie. And the trailer does absolutely nothing to contradict that.
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Re: The Star Trek Thread

Postby Thad » Tue Dec 15, 2015 5:04 pm

It does absolutely nothing to support it, either.

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Re: The Star Trek Thread

Postby Spooky Skeleton » Tue Dec 15, 2015 11:23 pm

Mongrel wrote:Star Trek really is gone, isn't it?

;___;


It was gone around the time they made Nemesis. I could feel it going around the time that the Borg queen started appearing on Voyager. First Contact was the last time it could have been good, and that was pretty crap. DS9 stayed interesting for a while, but the last time Star Trek was really great was the series finale for Next Generation.

That said, Enterprise was starting to grow on me when they decided to cancel it.

Max Landis described the death of Star Trek by holding up his phone and going, "Look, this is a tricorder and a communicator all in one device and it's smaller than both." Now, that's being a little flip about it maybe, but I think he's on the right track. Star trek has over stayed its welcome. It was great science fiction when it was originally conceived and it's core idea of a wagon train through the stars where men and women of all races come together to do great things is wonderful. The problem is, Voyager being basically the same show as the original series shows a lack of imagination and indicates that it's time for Star Trek to end.

Something else needs to replace it, something with the same optimistic spirit and sense of wonder, but with a context that is willing to look further into the future than a ship of scientists and engineers with neat gadgets hooked to their belts.

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Re: The Star Trek Thread

Postby Mongrel » Wed Dec 16, 2015 12:17 am

I don't disagree with your first paragraph, I just think some of us thought that there was a slim chance of Trek coming back with the reboot.

The first reboot movie certainly had issues and was silly in many ways, but it was miles better than drek like Nemesis. Into Darkness pretty much confirmed any rebooted series was going to be poorly-written action-crap, but this movie's change of writers and directors offered sort of one last extremely faint gasp of hope.

I don't even know that anyone would even buy a series full of hope and wonder anymore (also as a vehicle to tell interesting science-fiction short stories - another crucial aspect of Star Trek and TNG was that they essentially functioned as a television version of Analog Magazine, only with a recurring cast and more-or-less fixed universe), but we don't even get the chance to find out because no one with a budget is making one. That's why someone like me might cling to the unreasonably slim hope that Star Trek might possibly somehow revert to classical form - because there's no alternative at all right now, no matter how faint.
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Re: The Star Trek Thread

Postby Thad » Wed Dec 16, 2015 12:56 pm

The closest thing I can think of is Doctor Who, which has the hope-and-wonder thing going on, but it's as soft as soft sci-fi gets; it's got the spaceships-and-lasers trappings but it's not speculative or aspirational and it doesn't try to be.

There's still a new Trek TV series coming, which I think is likely to hew a little more closely to the previous TV iterations than to the movies, in terms of tone and approach. We'll see.

There are a lot of good, solid SF shows coming out now too (I just started Orphan Black), but futuristic utopias are passe. The post-apocalypse is what seems to be speaking to our generation, for reasons that are probably obvious, and I've linked before to Charles Stross's Not a Manifesto, where he argues that urban fantasy is the ideal metaphor for modern-day life in much the same way that space travel was back in the '50's and '60's. (Space operas are making a resurgence in theaters, with Guardians of the Galaxy and the new Star Trek and Star Wars, but again, nothing that really seems interested in being hard SF.)

Your mention of anthology magazines brings up a good point; there's a Twilight Zone relaunch coming, so we'll see if that's any good or if it's just warmed-over retreads of the original series' plot beats and twists, as Twilight Zone relaunches unfortunately have a tendency to be.

Also, given the recent trend toward prestige series that tell a complete story in ten episodes and then move on to something else next season (Fargo, True Detective, American Horror Story, etc.) I think it's only a matter of time before we see something like that set on a spaceship.

(I haven't watched that show with Halle Berry on it or that other one with Adam Baldwin on it, but I guess there are at least two spaceship series on American TV right now.)

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Re: The Star Trek Thread

Postby Thad » Fri Dec 18, 2015 12:18 am



Okay, I may be willing to give that face the benefit of the doubt.

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Re: The Star Trek Thread

Postby Brentai » Fri Dec 18, 2015 12:32 pm

Maybe it'll be like Tangled where the movie is actually really good and the trailer guy just took all the most memey lines and slapped a pop music track over it and made it look like Dreamworks garbage.

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