Racebending

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Bongo Bill
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Re: Racebending

Postby Bongo Bill » Tue Feb 25, 2014 11:56 am

Well, there's always this issue.
...but is it art?

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TedBelmont
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Re: Racebending

Postby TedBelmont » Tue Feb 25, 2014 8:57 pm

I thought they retconned it so Manipulative Sociopath Reed was actually one of the evil Reeds from another dimension?

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Bongo Bill
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Re: Racebending

Postby Bongo Bill » Wed Feb 26, 2014 6:03 am

Could be, but it's not exactly an inspiring trait for a superhero to be One Of The Good Ones.
...but is it art?

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Thad
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Re: Racebending

Postby Thad » Wed Feb 26, 2014 10:43 am

TedBelmont wrote:I thought they retconned it so Manipulative Sociopath Reed was actually one of the evil Reeds from another dimension?


Ooh, is that like how when JMS quit in the middle of his Superman Goes for a Walk story, the writer who took over (Robinson?) explained that Superman was being mind controlled or something?

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Healy
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Re: Racebending

Postby Healy » Wed Feb 26, 2014 10:49 am

Thad wrote:
Ooh, is that like how when JMS quit in the middle of his Superman Goes for a Walk story, the writer who took over (Robinson?) explained that Superman was being mind controlled or something?

This is going up to the edge of my obsession with superhero comics a few years back, but as I recall, he was just suffering from depression. Like, not even a magic depression.
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Bal
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Re: Racebending

Postby Bal » Tue Mar 04, 2014 12:48 pm

So is Sue going to be black too? I'd have made Reed or Ben black, or whatever other ethnicity, because it doesn't impact half of the entire team. My knee jerk reaction on all title characters is to just leave them alone though. I mean, this obviously leads to some seriously white bread movies, but, like, I don't know. Those characters are white, they've always been white, and I'm not sure anything would be gained by making them anything else except some positive feedback on tumblr. You can mess with the whole rest of the cast though. Idris Elba as Heimdal is one of my favorite parts of both Thor movies.

I'm not sure there's a good solution. I want all the heroes to be faithful to their comic book appearance and background, but that means fucking everyone is white. I don't see us getting a Heroes for Hire movie any time soon (though I would watch the FUCK out of it) soooo, yeah.

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Classic
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Re: Racebending

Postby Classic » Tue Mar 04, 2014 1:49 pm

Are you telling us that you're OK with one member of the main cast being race-bent to an under-served group, but having two makes you uncomfortable?

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zaratustra
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Re: Racebending

Postby zaratustra » Tue Mar 04, 2014 2:23 pm

Image

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Bal
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Re: Racebending

Postby Bal » Tue Mar 04, 2014 3:48 pm

No, I'm saying that in general I don't like the main characters being race changed at all, and that if you must with the Fantastic Four I would prefer you do it to characters for whom it A: wouldn't change their background as much, and B: would change fewer of the characters overall.

Like I said, I get that this makes for a lot of white superheroes, and I have no good reason for this except that I like the character the way they are because I've been reading comics my whole life.

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TA
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Re: Racebending

Postby TA » Tue Mar 04, 2014 4:44 pm

How exactly would being black change the Storms's background?
のほも is such a good word?? the concept is kind of hard to fully get across in translation, but basically it means a feeling of pure, deep, platonic affection, and i think thats beautiful

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Bongo Bill
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Re: Racebending

Postby Bongo Bill » Tue Mar 04, 2014 8:32 pm

The strong family themes of Fantastic Four mean that if Sue and Johnny resemble each other less than most siblings, that discrepancy has to be explained, and the explanation will have symbolic connotations.

The siblings resembling one another underscores the fact that their powers represent divergent coping mechanisms for the same basic insecurity. Sue is afraid of really connecting with people so she hides from them behind barriers; Johnny is afraid of really connecting with people so he creates an over-the-top celebrity persona that burns too hot and bright to get close to and is unlike earthbound people.

If the Storm siblings are mixed-race but they appear to be of different races, that suggests that the relationship between them is characterized less by commonality and more by envy. Sue becomes invisible because she resents being the center of attention (due to being white and conventionally attractive or something), while Johnny, sick of being left out (because of being the target of racism), becomes a glowing flying symbol that everybody can see.

The two interpretations are neither incompatible with each other, nor do they require anything of the races of the actors portraying them. But they do have to be portrayed as natural siblings, because if one or both is adopted, or they're half-siblings or step-siblings, explaining the characters requires explaining their parentage, and if you start telling a story about the Fantastic Four's parents I think you have forgotten what genre you're supposed to be in.
...but is it art?

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Thad
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Re: Racebending

Postby Thad » Tue Mar 04, 2014 9:24 pm

It's not like it has to be a long-winded explanation or anything. A single line of expository dialogue would do the job.

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Brentai
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Re: Racebending

Postby Brentai » Tue Mar 04, 2014 10:00 pm

Man, it just struck me how this would look if we weren't talking about a long-standing and well-known character. A black person called the "Human Torch" whose power is to get lit on fire.

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TA
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Re: Racebending

Postby TA » Tue Mar 04, 2014 11:02 pm

He's taking it back!
のほも is such a good word?? the concept is kind of hard to fully get across in translation, but basically it means a feeling of pure, deep, platonic affection, and i think thats beautiful

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Bal
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Re: Racebending

Postby Bal » Wed Mar 05, 2014 2:45 am

Again, if they get good actors, whatever, I don't actually care. I just have a preference for classic looks because I'm used to them.

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Joxam
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Re: Racebending

Postby Joxam » Wed Mar 05, 2014 3:19 am

Bal wrote:I just have a preference for classic looks because I'm used to them.


The 1960s called, they want their argument for Jim Crow back.
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Bal
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Re: Racebending

Postby Bal » Wed Mar 05, 2014 4:09 am

Oh for fuck's sake, Joxam. Are you for real? This isn't an attachment to a way of fucking life that is objectively ethically wrong, it's a preference for the characters of my childhood staying basically the same. I know full well this makes for basically 100% white protagonists in A-list hero movies, and I get why that is a problem. Like I said earlier, I don't have a good solution to this. I don't think anyone is helped by arbitrarily race swapping a character rather than using an original, let's say, black character but unfortunately, when it comes to heroes that have the kind of branding that can sell movies to people, you're more likely to get a green character than a black one in the leading role.

As for Fantastic Four specifically, I of course would just like to see them left alone, but if you were to propose a black Hank Pym to me for Ant Man, I'd be more down with that. FF is all about all four characters basically being who they've always been, at least to me, but a slightly more obscure character like Hank, I think something really interesting could be done with that without anyone other than neck beards being the wiser. Actually, now that I think about all the shared history between the Richards and Storm families, and Ben Grimm, I'd rather they ALL be black than only the Storms. That would actually be interesting to me as a fan.

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Joxam
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Re: Racebending

Postby Joxam » Wed Mar 05, 2014 4:34 am

I honestly never REALLY thought we needed an emoticon for 'I'm making the obvious joke'...
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Bal
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Re: Racebending

Postby Bal » Wed Mar 05, 2014 4:57 am

Well I'm sorry that I have trouble taking "You are literally a racist" as a joke.

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Re: Racebending

Postby Niku » Wed Mar 05, 2014 11:56 am

have you tried being less racist
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