Game of Thrones: The TV Show

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Thad
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Re: Game of Thrones: The TV Show

Postby Thad » Wed May 06, 2015 10:05 pm

Well, THAT escalated quickly.

Pretty sure the book took a little bit longer before making it clear that Cersei had made a big mistake. As in, at least more than a single scene.

In fact, I kinda feel like I gotta call bullshit on her putting Tommen in danger like that; that's really out-of-character.

But it looks like we've got an answer to TA's question about how the plot would go with (book spoiler) Margaery apparently ineligible for being (TV/book spoiler) imprisoned by the Sparrows and my question about a certain character whose arc hasn't gone anywhere lately.

We finally got a little bit of Melisandre and her search for kings' blood, but we also got a pretty clear indication that she's going to be heading south with Stannis, which is a divergence from the book. Stronger grist for my supposition that (book spoilers) Maester Aemon will die before Sam heads south and Sansa will take the place of Mance.

Further divergences from the books: there's really nothing negative to say about more Bronn.

As for the last scene: I think it's pretty clear that (show spoilers) Grey Worm is going to be okay. (Show and book spoilers) Ser Barristan is a little more ambiguous; while that character is still alive in the books, it wouldn't be the first time the show's killed somebody off who isn't dead in the books.

Lastly: There was some really important exposition this episode.

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Re: Game of Thrones: The TV Show

Postby Mongrel » Wed May 06, 2015 10:35 pm

Thad wrote:Ser Barristan is a little more ambiguous; while that character is still alive in the books, it wouldn't be the first time the show's killed somebody off who isn't dead in the books


I don't watch this, but I wanted to mention this isn't ambiguous: The actor has made a statement recently about how long he's signed to play the character. You can google it if you want to know the answer.
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Re: Game of Thrones: The TV Show

Postby TA » Tue May 12, 2015 6:33 pm

"Less enemies for us!"
"Fewer."
"What?"
"Nothing."
Giggling so hard right now.
のほも is such a good word?? the concept is kind of hard to fully get across in translation, but basically it means a feeling of pure, deep, platonic affection, and i think thats beautiful

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beatbandito
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Re: Game of Thrones: The TV Show

Postby beatbandito » Tue Jun 09, 2015 7:00 am

The latest episode (Dance of Dragons) has me confused on one pretty major point, that maybe I missed an explanation for, or maybe it's just in the books. But...

During The Battle of Blackwater Bay Stannis clearly still trusts Davos. Stannis follows Davos' plan, and leaves Melisandre on the sidelines. After they get fucked up by Wildfire Melisandre claims that had Stannis trusted in her and followed her plan the Lord of Light or whatever wouldn't have let the fire burn them. That seemed to be when Stannis completely gave in to her and stopped trusting Davos.

Cut to Today, and Melisandre is just standing around as the camp burns and no one seems to question why she couldn't stop it.


And about the ending the only consequence of Daenerys' actions I'll accept is if she returns to a city even more pissed at her for letting a dragon just do its thing and hurting innocents along with the Harpies, and with everyone she just abandoned there dead. Because seriously, they were still surrounded and Daenerys just took the only thing left holding them back and peaced out.
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Re: Game of Thrones: The TV Show

Postby Joxam » Tue Jun 09, 2015 8:49 am

I normally don't get into fandom debates because they're terrible but I have no idea why anyone in the TV (I haven't read past the second book so I would have no frame of reference for the books) fandom actually thinks Danny is good at either of these 'being a leader' or 'being an adult' things.

She strikes me as a kid who was abused terribly and has no idea how to adult, ADD to that the fact that she also has very black and white KID ideas about morality and right from wrong and we basically have what I can only really describe as a child playing queen somewhere off in the desert just far enough away from the rest of the powers in this universe that no one has thought it worth their while to deal with her yet.
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Thad
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Re: Game of Thrones: The TV Show

Postby Thad » Tue Jun 09, 2015 10:24 am

beatbandito wrote:Cut to Today, and Melisandre is just standing around as the camp burns and no one seems to question why she couldn't stop it.


No, there's not really any explanation for this. Though I think it's clear at this point that most of Stannis's people aren't going to question Melisandre, most likely out of fear.

Davos clearly still doesn't trust her or believe in her power but he probably doesn't feel it's worth forcing the issue over something like this -- he has no idea what Stannis is plotting, of course, or he WOULD speak up, no matter the consequences.

As for Stannis himself, I've always gotten the impression that he doesn't believe in the Lord of Light or any of the other gods, doesn't have a working idea of how Melisandre's powers actually work (and frankly I don't think she does either) but just knows that up to this point when he's trusted her she's gotten results. I can see how he could reconcile her not being able to stop the raid with her still being his last best chance of surviving.

beatbandito wrote:And about the ending the only consequence of Daenerys' actions I'll accept is if she returns to a city even more pissed at her for letting a dragon just do its thing and hurting innocents along with the Harpies, and with everyone she just abandoned there dead. Because seriously, they were still surrounded and Daenerys just took the only thing left holding them back and peaced out.


I see it as making the best bad choice available to her. But yeah next week when it turns out Tyrion and everybody else is okay without any further explanation I think that's going to count as a pretty noticeable plot hole.

Whether it's still possible to salvage Meereen is an open question. That sequence plays out similarly in the book but the details are significantly different. Not least because in the book Ser Barristan is still alive to try and run things in her stead.

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Re: Game of Thrones: The TV Show

Postby TA » Tue Jun 09, 2015 1:17 pm

Thad wrote:Whether it's still possible to salvage Meereen is an open question. That sequence plays out similarly in the book but the details are significantly different. Not least because in the book Ser Barristan is still alive to try and run things in her stead.


And because the assassination attempt is just some poisoned snacks, and Drogon's lured in by the sounds and smells of the pit. There weren't hundreds of Harpies butchering people for Daenerys's crew to be left to deal with.

I am pretty fucking pissed at the whole Stannis thing. It's completely bullshit, ridiculously out of character, and just reeks of the showrunners being desperate to make bad things happen to the girls on the show. Saw it put well on Tumblr:

what she says:i'm fine
what she means:stannis letting melisandre sacrifice shireen to the lord of light was not only a hideous representation of d+d's misogyny, but grossly out of character for stannis who burned a man for treason for even suggesting shireen marry a bastard and told one of his men that, in the event of stannis's death, he should have his army avenge his death and seat shireen on the throne
のほも is such a good word?? the concept is kind of hard to fully get across in translation, but basically it means a feeling of pure, deep, platonic affection, and i think thats beautiful

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Grath
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Re: Game of Thrones: The TV Show

Postby Grath » Tue Jun 09, 2015 1:35 pm

TA wrote:I am pretty motherfucking pissed at the whole Stannis thing. It's completely santorum, ridiculously out of character, and just reeks of the showrunners being desperate to make bad things happen to the girls on the show.

Reportedly, via the timestamp linked to in this youtube video containing spoilers (duh), this was dictated by George R.R. Martin and not D+D.

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Re: Game of Thrones: The TV Show

Postby Thad » Tue Jun 09, 2015 6:44 pm

Right, but there's a pretty significant difference in the books: Melisandre, Selyse, and Shireen stay at Castle Black when Stannis marches south. Or at least Melisandre does; it's been awhile since I read Dance and I'm not entirely sure about Selyse and Shireen.

While it's entirely possible that the books are building toward the same result, I don't see how it's possible for Stannis to be the one who makes that call.

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Re: Game of Thrones: The TV Show

Postby Grath » Thu Jun 11, 2015 9:42 am

I think this is technically spoilers, but from minor events that started happening in Season 3.
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Re: Game of Thrones: The TV Show

Postby pacobird » Mon Jun 15, 2015 6:36 pm

Well, that was it. I am no longer invested in this story. I get that its appeal is supposed to be its willingness to break romantic storytelling conventions and pull the rug out from under you, but the shaggy dog bodycount is getting too high. What is there to look forward to? Who is there to cheer for? Are we just going to clear the table so the audience has no alternative to Dany?
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Re: Game of Thrones: The TV Show

Postby Esperath » Mon Jun 15, 2015 7:24 pm

I haven't seen the TV series, but it's interesting to look at the body count. Almost everyone who died in Season 5 was still "possibly alive" at the end of A Dance With Dragons.
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Thad
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Re: Game of Thrones: The TV Show

Postby Thad » Mon Jun 15, 2015 10:27 pm

Well, we've still got Tyrion, Davos, Jaime, and Brienne. And Bran's still out there, though his newfound power to talk to trees is likely to be even more boring on television than in the books.

And, all appearances very much to the contrary, I'm pretty confident that Sansa and Jon are going to turn out to be okay. It's going to require some pretty fucking heavy suspension of disbelief and/or actual resurrection (which has been used pretty sparingly up to this point, but has happened a couple times, including once in this episode), but that's where my money is.

As much as this series gets off on shockingly killing off main characters, I don't buy that Jon Snow is out of the picture before that particular narrative arc is resolved. Killing off Ned and Robb and any number of other characters made for a better story than if they had lived; killing off -----Jon----- doesn't.

There's rather a lot tied up in that particular plot point in the books that's really only been hinted at a little bit in the show. I went into it in some detail over in the Song of Ice and Fire: The Books: Massive Spoilers & Rampant Speculation thread on the old boards. I suppose we can continue that discussion over this way, but I think it would require a whole lot of spoiler tags; the show's basically caught up with the books at this point, but that thread DOES reveal some major plot points from the books that haven't happened on the show and may never happen on the show.

(A couple of updates to my thoughts as shared in that thread: (1) I'm not so sure Melisandre knows about Jon; she certainly doesn't on the show, though I expect she's about to learn; (2) the reference to Tom O'Sevens is entirely my own misunderstanding, as the mysterious minstrel at Winterfell in the books was quite clearly Mance, not Tom; (3) I'm a lot more inclined to think that the letter about what happened in the battle between Ramsay and Stannis was telling the truth given that that's what we just saw on the show; (4) okay I'll concede that Joffrey probably sent the assassin after Bran, not Littlefinger, though I still think it would work better if Littlefinger had done it.)

-- OR --, leaving aside all the convoluted shit from that thread, here's a version of the theory that only uses stuff that's been on the show:

We've already seen a priest of the Fire God bring someone back from the dead. And there has to be some sort of narrative purpose for Melisandre fleeing before Stannis's forces were wiped out and showing up at the Wall just in time for Jon to come down with a serious case of stabbed-repeatedly-in-the-gut.

Granted, the show's killed off a number of characters who are still alive in the books (including at least one in this episode). But I think this is going to be one of those rare occasions where it pulls a death cheat.

tl;dr Hey, new True Detective next week.

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Re: Game of Thrones: The TV Show

Postby Grath » Tue Jun 16, 2015 10:11 pm

My (very Catholic) roommate finally caught up on Game of Thrones.

Get to the atonement scene.
Roomate: Body double.
Me: Yep. Lena Heady's boobs aren't that big.
Roommate: I think this is one situation where I can honestly say I don't know.
Me: 300.
Roommate: Damn.


Edit with On why the Lord of Light didn't save Stannis:
Melisandre didn't get naked, that's why the spell failed. (During Episode 9, also tonight, he observed that the solution to most of Stannis's problems was to have Melisandre get naked and set something on fire.)

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Re: Game of Thrones: The TV Show

Postby beatbandito » Wed Jun 17, 2015 6:23 am

pacobird wrote:Well, that was it. I am no longer invested in this story. I get that its appeal is supposed to be its willingness to break romantic storytelling conventions and pull the rug out from under you, but the shaggy dog bodycount is getting too high. What is there to look forward to? Who is there to cheer for? Are we just going to clear the table so the audience has no alternative to Dany?


Pretty sure this reaction was exactly the plan, babykins. It was obvious that Jon was far too much of a hero this season to live. Honestly, I was expecting Olly to do it on his own, all the screen time he got to use mulling over his feels about the whole thing. Besides, everyone knows at least one Stark dies every other season. They wanted it to look like Sansa this season, but then they had the weak last second Reek turnaround and Jon was all that was left. He had to go sooner-or-later, anyway. He was clearly a 'lead' character. R.R. has already spoken at length about how he feels about those.

Grath wrote:On why the Lord of Light didn't save Stannis


Cuts away before the final blow? He's still alive.
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Re: Game of Thrones: The TV Show

Postby Thad » Wed Jun 17, 2015 8:28 pm

Technically they cut away before Ned's execution, too.

They waited until the opening of the next episode to show his severed head.

Still, this definitely leaves it open, as do...really most of the deaths in this episode, aside from Selyse, Myranda, and Jon. The last of whom is the one I'm most certain is going to turn out to be a fakeout.

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Re: Game of Thrones: The TV Show

Postby TA » Wed Jun 17, 2015 8:51 pm

Well. For those who've seen the finale, Vanity Fair has a partial list of confirmed deaths and survivals. Finale spoilers and probable book spoilers abound.
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Re: Game of Thrones: The TV Show

Postby zaratustra » Sun Jul 05, 2015 6:34 pm

Man this show is working some really rough chuckles lately.

Noted how the approach to a lot of the 'sexy' on Season 5 is "fine, we'll show it, but you're a fucking horrible person if you enjoy it in any way" It's almost becoming a commentary on itself. BLOOD AND TITS ARE YOU NOT ENTERTAINED YOU FUCKHOLES?

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Re: Game of Thrones: The TV Show

Postby Mothra » Sun Jul 05, 2015 7:13 pm

Welp, finally all caught up. This felt like the first half of a season, with a million disappointing loose ends and no resolution. Like a good number of my friends, I'm considering dropping this show, but I imagine I won't feel quite the same when the new season is out. We'll see.

I'm hoping the apparent death of Reek means the end of the Ramsey plot, but I know this show a little too well for that. It has not been even remotely enjoyable or dramatically interesting watching that guy find new and exotic ways to be evil.

Jon Snow's death was obviously pretty shitty, if for no other reason than that there are zero other characters at Castle Black who could take his place. I don't see Davos rising up through the Crows any time soon, so, ┐('~`; )┌ w/e

My reaching prediction is that the crowned Whitewalker who was watching Snow during his slaying of the other Whitewalker commander is going to resurrect Snow as a replacement for the one he slew. Considering how few major characters are in the north, I'm thinking they're going to need to bring Jon Snow back somehow, and that's the only reasonable way.

Stannis burning his daughter was pointless, and like other people said, pretty damn out-of-character. That story was tedious and went nowhere after 5 seasons.

Jorah's story was fun though! Too bad he's gonna die soon.

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Re: Game of Thrones: The TV Show

Postby Thad » Tue Apr 26, 2016 11:26 am

Well, that was a perfectly decent premier, and about what we expect from this show at this point. Some good drama, some pulse-pounding violence, and a hell of a lot of characters and subplots really bogging everything down. And this is the version that's pared down and focused! Like, the Winterfell, King's Landing, Wall, and Meereen plots are all streamlined way the hell down from the latest book, with multiple examples of characters and subplots composited together.

I don't see what's so hard to understand about Martin having trouble getting the next book together. This thing is a fucking Gordian knot.

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