Game of Thrones: The TV Show

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Rico
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Re: Game of Thrones: The TV Show

Postby Rico » Tue Apr 26, 2016 10:21 pm

I don't see what's so hard to understand about Martin having trouble getting the next book together. This thing is a motherfucking Gordian knot.
Well he's pretty fucking good at cutting things with swords!!!

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Re: Game of Thrones: The TV Show

Postby Thad » Mon May 02, 2016 11:21 pm

Shit I did not care for in last night's episode:

  • "Throw them in the dungeon, where they belong." There's really no excuse for this except that the opening scene of next week's episode is Jon executing Thorne and everybody else involved in the mutiny. This series has been pretty clear regarding the subject of insubordination among the Watch.
  • Roose Bolton goes down like a bitch. I mean, okay, it may have been viscerally satisfying, and I may have blurted out "The Lannisters send their regards, motherfucker," but Roose isn't that fucking dumb. He knows what his son is; there's no way he should have let that happen.
  • Davos is totally cool with Melisandre and her magic now.
  • Closing credits over Torgo's theme.

The highlight of this episode was the sound mix. I first noticed it during the sept scene; when the Sparrows started to enter I actually wondered what the fuck was happening to the right wall of my living room. The rest of the episode was just as impressive.

I brought my dog in the house partway through because she was barking. She started to get nervous during a thunderstorm scene, and freaked right the fuck out at the kennel scene. If my dog were still writing reviews, this episode's would be "let me out let me out let me out let me out let me out." So I let her back out. And then went and got a beer out of the fridge, because you know what, she's right, the kennel scene was fucking rough.

(She is barking again now. Fucking dog.)

For all my griping, I enjoyed this episode rather a lot. There were some very good pairings that haven't happened in the books and might never happen in the books the way things are going, such as Jaime/Tommen and Jaime/High Sparrow.

I was also quite pleased to see the show pick up the Greyjoy thread; I'd heard it was coming but it's still good to see the execution. I'm glad they're not skipping the Kingsmoot; I'll grant it's a bit dry compared to most of the politicking in this series, but (as you might expect) I like the electoral politics angle, and in a genre that's overstuffed with birthright succession I like seeing the occasional society that holds democratic elections.

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Re: Game of Thrones: The TV Show

Postby Mothra » Tue May 03, 2016 1:05 am

I was reaaally taken aback by how cordially Davos treated the Red Witch. I expected him to angrily want her dead after what she caused with the girl who taught him to read.

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Re: Game of Thrones: The TV Show

Postby Thad » Tue May 03, 2016 1:26 am

Yeah, that was one of those really sour notes that occasionally come up when the show consolidates multiple storylines and plows ahead. (And I say this as someone who conceded that putting Sansa in the gets-raped-by-Ramsay role was a pretty elegant piece of narrative streamlining, unpleasant though it was from an emotional perspective.)

I don't remember if you're up on the books or not, but yeah Davos isn't even at the Wall at the end of Dance (and, for that matter, Shireen is still alive). I expect things will play out similarly in broad strokes when Winds of Winter finally arrives, but the details are obviously going to be different.

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Re: Game of Thrones: The TV Show

Postby Mothra » Tue May 03, 2016 6:53 am

I haven't read any of the books.

Am I the only one disappointed that they used regular ol' magic to revive John Snow? Seemed to come out of nowhere, narratively speaking. I was honestly convinced it was going to be the Whitewalkers that brought him back.

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Grath
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Re: Game of Thrones: The TV Show

Postby Grath » Tue May 03, 2016 9:55 am

Mothra wrote:I haven't read any of the books.

Am I the only one disappointed that they used regular ol' magic to revive John Snow? Seemed to come out of nowhere, narratively speaking. I was honestly convinced it was going to be the Whitewalkers that brought him back.

What I'd heard suggested before the episode was Melisandre somehow summons the Lord of Light into Jon Snow so he's like, half god somehow. What I think is more likely is that this is possibly taking over for some of the Lady Stoneheart storyline maybe since GoT doesn't want to thoroughly devalue death (but they probably couldn't kill Melisandre and obviously Beric Dondarrion wasn't at the wall so he couldn't give up his life for Jon Snow's to maintain that somebody has to die, and that person has serious magical power, in order to revive people.)

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Re: Game of Thrones: The TV Show

Postby Thad » Tue May 03, 2016 10:55 am

Mothra wrote:Am I the only one disappointed that they used regular ol' magic to revive John Snow? Seemed to come out of nowhere, narratively speaking. I was honestly convinced it was going to be the Whitewalkers that brought him back.


I think it's all tied up in the R+L=J theory. Melisandre's spent this whole time looking for someone with king's blood, and not realized that it's Jon, who is actually the son of Lyanna Stark and Rhaegar Targaryen. The magic wouldn't necessarily have worked on anybody else besides Jon Snow.

Speaking of which, was "Hodor's tragic origin story" on anybody's list of plots that desperately needed to be explored?

Speculation: Hodor was there at the Tower of Joy, and we're going to see what happened to Lyanna through his eyes. Making Meera Reed even more redundant.

(In the books, Ned Stark and Howland Reed, father of Jojen and Meera, are the only survivors of the Tower of Joy. Jojen and Meera -- both of them, because Jojen's still alive -- know what happened and have been dropping hints, but still no confirmation.)

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Re: Game of Thrones: The TV Show

Postby Grath » Tue May 03, 2016 12:12 pm

Thad wrote:
Mothra wrote:Am I the only one disappointed that they used regular ol' magic to revive John Snow? Seemed to come out of nowhere, narratively speaking. I was honestly convinced it was going to be the Whitewalkers that brought him back.


I think it's all tied up in the R+L=J theory. Melisandre's spent this whole time looking for someone with king's blood, and not realized that it's Jon, who is actually the son of Lyanna Stark and Rhaegar Targaryen. The magic wouldn't necessarily have worked on anybody else besides Jon Snow.

Speaking of which, was "Hodor's tragic origin story" on anybody's list of plots that desperately needed to be explored?

Speculation: Hodor was there at the Tower of Joy, and we're going to see what happened to Lyanna through his eyes. Making Meera Reed even more redundant.

(In the books, Ned Stark and Howland Reed, father of Jojen and Meera, are the only survivors of the Tower of Joy. Jojen and Meera -- both of them, because Jojen's still alive -- know what happened and have been dropping hints, but still no confirmation.)

It could be that they're showing Hodor's Tragic Origin Story as an easter egg while showing the other parts of that story.

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Re: Game of Thrones: The TV Show

Postby beatbandito » Tue May 03, 2016 5:04 pm

Yeah that seems like the most obvious thing for Hodor given the age / time period we explored with them. I'm too lazy to go back and look but I remember at some point his grandmother? mother? whoever that was mentioned that he could speak as a child and gave a general statement about how it that changed.
Image

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Re: Game of Thrones: The TV Show

Postby Grath » Wed May 04, 2016 12:52 am

beatbandito wrote:Yeah that seems like the most obvious thing for Hodor given the age / time period we explored with them. I'm too lazy to go back and look but I remember at some point his grandmother? mother? whoever that was mentioned that he could speak as a child and gave a general statement about how it that changed.

Old Nan, his great-grandmother, is like "yo he used to be able to talk and his name was Walder" in the first book (but for some reason they didn't want yet another Walder floating around the TV show.)

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Re: Game of Thrones: The TV Show

Postby zaratustra » Thu May 05, 2016 11:03 am

GM: OK let's recap where everyone is because you guys... split the party a bit.
JAIME'S PLAYER: hey I did get back to King's Landing
GM: Yeah nobody else is in King's Landing and your niece is dead.
JAIME'S PLAYER: damn
GM: Tyrion shot his girlfriend and his dad and hid on a boat and then got captured by Dany's sidekick and now he's at Mereen
TYRION's PLAYER: railroadiiiing
JAMIE'S PLAYER: Wasn't I in Mereen
GM: No you were in Dorne. Mereen is like across the ocean.
ARYA'S PLAYER: I'm in Mereen
GM: No, but you're at least in the same continent, but you're blind because you decided to go into the basement of the house of Black & White despite basically EVERYONE telling you not to
ARYA'S PLAYER: Man I told you I'm chaotic neutral now gotta get through my killings list
GM: We're not using alignments. ANYWAY Tyrion was gonna meet Dany But Dany's not there anymore because she decided to FLY AWAY IN A DRAGON into a corner of the map I don't have the books for
DANY'S PLAYER: I AM THE QUEEN OF DRAGONS
GM: Bran's been training in the old man's cave but now that his player's back we can hopefully get him with the others
BRAN'S PLAYER: can I train some more? I want to know Hodor's backstory
GM: NO. and finally Sansa and Reek escaped the Bolton castle, awesome, and they met with Brienne, DOUBLE AWESOME
BRIENNE'S PLAYER: do you remember how i stabbed all those dudes man
REEK'S PLAYER: I helped
GM: so now they're going to meet with Jon Snow up north
JON'S PLAYER: cool
GM: EXCEPT Jon managed to make his entire crew mutiny and got himself murdered
JON'S PLAYER: THEY WEREN'T BEING LAWFUL GOOD
GM: WE'RE NOT USING ALIG-- fuck this. Jon, Melisandre revives you.
MELISANDRE'S PLAYER: I can resurrect people?
GM: Yeah whatever. Anyway all you guys are now going north and then we can hopefully get the others in track.
REEK'S PLAYER: Yeah I'm leaving. I'm going back to my castle
GM: fuck
TYRION'S PLAYER: what happened to winter coming
GM: shut up
TYRION'S PLAYER: i want to fight some zombies
GM: YOU'RE NOT EVEN IN THE SAME CONTINENT ANYMORE SHUT UP

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Büge
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Re: Game of Thrones: The TV Show

Postby Büge » Thu May 05, 2016 1:58 pm

Dany's player is nine years old. Her older brother, who was babysitting her, was in the campaign, but he tried to powergame his way into commanding the Dothraki by minmaxing his stats and choosing the Noble background. He was subsequently killed by DM fiat and left in a huff.

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Re: Game of Thrones: The TV Show

Postby Grath » Mon May 09, 2016 5:28 pm

In this season's continuing trend of increased equality: Gratuitous Jon Snow butt.

Also, either R+L=J is true or they are trolling the fuck out of everyone who believes it.

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Re: Game of Thrones: The TV Show

Postby Destynova » Mon May 09, 2016 10:16 pm

Sigh, Ramsey has become this Marty Stu with his endless wins. No doubt Osha will be sacrificed for yet another scene showing how evil Ramsey is. He'll die eventually, but it won't be like Joffery's endless stupidity and cruelty that brings him down. Joffery's scenes made it quite clear that the only reason King's Landing didn't have Stannis on the throne was due to Tyrion's actions. Ramsey will probably have a face to face fight with Jon and then a quick stab and dramatic sky sky of his body.

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Re: Game of Thrones: The TV Show

Postby Thad » Mon May 09, 2016 11:05 pm

No real gripes this week. I can't say I'm terribly interested in Dany's plot, but everybody behaved more-or-less in-character and there were some good character meetups.

The return of Kevan Lannister to establish the new status quo between Cersei and the Small Council was quite good.

Spoiler for ending of latest book/conjecture for thing that could happen on show: I suppose we can expect him to meet his end much the same as in the book, with Qyburn in place of Varys, with the Mountain presumably being the actual trigger-man.

The Winterfell scene was the biggest departure from the books in this episode. I wasn't sure what to make of it when I watched it but it's growing on me the more I think about it; it was certainly the biggest "oh shit" moment of the hour.

The last scene bothered me at first; Jon should absolutely be beheading the oathbreakers, not hanging them -- but then the ending totally validated it. If Jon's no longer the lord of the castle, then he's not bound by the obligations his father taught him. Strictly speaking, he kept his oath, seeing as he did serve the Night's Watch until his death -- but I can't help thinking he's the oathbreaker referred to in the title. Though of course for book fans, the word "oathbreaker" has another meaning.

The sound mixers are, once again, the unsung MVP's of the episode. I had it turned down kinda low because my wife was asleep in the other room, but even with the volume down the ship scene sounded fantastic. Has the mix always been this good and I just didn't notice, or possibly just had downloads that downmixed to stereo MP3? I don't think it's just my new speakers, because I only have two of them; I'm really noticing the side channel and those speakers are the same ones I've had for years.

Dog got barky and had to be brought in about halfway through. She was mostly okay with this episode; she seemed to like the scene with Tommen, but not the scene with Arya.

Oh also I am glad Hodor was not at the Tower of Joy after all.

Destynova wrote:Sigh, Ramsey has become this Marty Stu with his endless wins. No doubt Osha will be sacrificed for yet another scene showing how evil Ramsey is. He'll die eventually, but it won't be like Joffery's endless stupidity and cruelty that brings him down. Joffery's scenes made it quite clear that the only reason King's Landing didn't have Stannis on the throne was due to Tyrion's actions. Ramsey will probably have a face to face fight with Jon and then a quick stab and dramatic sky sky of his body.


If anybody's earned a quick and ignominious end, it's Ramsay. Facing Jon Snow in battle is too good for him; he'll be stabbed in the back by his own men and then fed to his own dogs. There's nobody loyal to him, just people who haven't been given enough incentive to make an attempt on his life yet.

The direwolf head makes it pretty unlikely that Jon Umber is a secret Stark loyalist who's just waiting for a chance to strike. But I could see him or anyone else killing Ramsay at the first available opportunity.

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Re: Game of Thrones: The TV Show

Postby Thad » Tue May 10, 2016 11:42 am

Another thought:

Arya's training montage wound up being a pretty elegant way to dump a little exposition and remind casual viewers that (1) Rickon is a character who exists and (2) there is a mystery surrounding Jon Snow's parentage.

But she didn't just talk about her siblings. She also talked about the Hound.

And it occurs to me that this is the second time in three weeks that somebody has recounted the circumstances of the Hound's apparent death.

I've got a feeling we'll be seeing him again sooner than later.

Conjecture: the show's already told us that Cersei's going to be subject to trial by combat, and Ser Gregor will be her champion.

And there's only one person we've ever seen defeat Ser Gregor in combat.

Precisely what Sandor would be doing with the Sparrows is an interesting question, and it would seem awfully out-of-character. And yet, a violent, angry man living a life without purpose, nearly dying, and being nursed back to health by a stern but charismatic leader, who gives him religion and the sense of belonging and purpose he's always lacked? That's not such a farfetched story.

Plus he really, really wants to stab his brother.

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Re: Game of Thrones: The TV Show

Postby Grath » Tue May 10, 2016 12:37 pm

Thad wrote:Another thought:

Arya's training montage wound up being a pretty elegant way to dump a little exposition and remind casual viewers that (1) Rickon is a character who exists and (2) there is a mystery surrounding Jon Snow's parentage.

But she didn't just talk about her siblings. She also talked about the Hound.

And it occurs to me that this is the second time in three weeks that somebody has recounted the circumstances of the Hound's apparent death.

I've got a feeling we'll be seeing him again sooner than later.

Conjecture: the show's already told us that Cersei's going to be subject to trial by combat, and Ser Gregor will be her champion.

And there's only one person we've ever seen defeat Ser Gregor in combat.

Precisely what Sandor would be doing with the Sparrows is an interesting question, and it would seem awfully out-of-character. And yet, a violent, angry man living a life without purpose, nearly dying, and being nursed back to health by a stern but charismatic leader, who gives him religion and the sense of belonging and purpose he's always lacked? That's not such a farfetched story.

Plus he really, really wants to stab his brother.

One of the storyline divergences:
While trying to find Arya, Brienne went to a monastery where everyone is under a vow of silence, where the one person allowed to speak confirmed that Sandor Clegane is dead and pay no attention to the half-crippled gravedigger who is coincidentally taller than Brienne and has his face covered in a monk's hood thing.

Also, the name for what you're suggesting (which is a popular fan theory alongside R+L=J) is "Cleganebowl".

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Re: Game of Thrones: The TV Show

Postby zaratustra » Tue May 10, 2016 1:06 pm

Destynova wrote:Sigh, Ramsey has become this Marty Stu with his endless wins. No doubt Osha will be sacrificed for yet another scene showing how evil Ramsey is. He'll die eventually, but it won't be like Joffery's endless stupidity and cruelty that brings him down. Joffery's scenes made it quite clear that the only reason King's Landing didn't have Stannis on the throne was due to Tyrion's actions. Ramsey will probably have a face to face fight with Jon and then a quick stab and dramatic sky sky of his body.


Westeros rewards cold bastards, and Ramsey is the coldest bastard there is.

It does kinda make sense that there wasn't anyone interested in going into Icecap Zone to get him down a peg, but if Jon meets Sansa suddenly they will have very many reasons to do whatever they can.

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Re: Game of Thrones: The TV Show

Postby Thad » Tue May 10, 2016 10:03 pm

Grath wrote:One of the storyline divergences:
While trying to find Arya, Brienne went to a monastery where everyone is under a vow of silence, where the one person allowed to speak confirmed that Sandor Clegane is dead and pay no attention to the half-crippled gravedigger who is coincidentally taller than Brienne and has his face covered in a monk's hood thing.


Right; I've read the books but wasn't prepared to get into that.

Grath wrote:Also, the name for what you're suggesting (which is a popular fan theory alongside R+L=J) is "Cleganebowl".


I'm pretty confident they'll have it out in the books but I don't know if it'll be under the same circumstances as in the show. Seeing as Brienne and Jaime's stories have both been changed pretty much entirely.

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Re: Game of Thrones: The TV Show

Postby Destynova » Wed May 11, 2016 1:02 am

Yea, they might as well had the banners strung out for Cleganebowl. I do hope we see some Sparrow cleaving by Mountain just to showcase his strength.

Differences between book and show of course but having Ramsey start becoming a bundle of fail because he doesn't have the likes of Twyin,Tyrion or Cersei to actually run things while he froths and shoots hookers would be good to see. BookRamsey was sneaky and relied on being surrounded by his father's men while he hacked away to win. Think of him as the W+R1 Pyro who was being propped up by a Medic.

I really don't want to see Osha or Rickon flayed, if they gotta do that then just show the after effects.

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