Game of Thrones: The TV Show

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beatbandito
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Re: Game of Thrones: The TV Show

Postby beatbandito » Tue May 14, 2019 1:45 pm

I've been trying to think of a way to easily wrap up the most glaring criticisms, since I think we can all agree that this is far past the point of serious study and critique, and think I finally got it.

Your Grandma wrote this season.

Your Grandma knew that Jon didn't want to be King last season, so she makes him go against all his moral to continue following Daeny.

Varys wanted what was best for the kingdom, so he was incredibly blatant about his plan to depose the queen whose castle he lived in to live by that one trait.

Euron wanted to make a name for himself by killing someone important like Jaime. Since then Jaime's reputation and name is worthless and Euron is commander of the most feared navy in the world and father of the next king of Westeros, but, like, he totally still needed that one specific thing.

Daeny said she would burn the keep if she wasn't given a choice so... after completely disarming the enemy without a single innocent casualty and the enemy capitulating she decides to just fucking kill everyone, even though now that's only innocents and her army.

She remembers how much we cared about these things, and no man can tell Grandma she got it wrong.
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Mothra
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Re: Game of Thrones: The TV Show

Postby Mothra » Tue May 14, 2019 1:50 pm

I laughed so hard when Euron stumbled out of the sea, drenched from his long swim to shore, knife in hand as he terrorizes Jaime Lannister with lunges of the poker.

[Skeletor voice] "HAA! IT'S ME, JAIME! EURON GREY-JOY! I'M GOING TO FUCK YOUR SISTER AND THERE'S NOTHING YOU CAN DO TO STOP ME!! ATTACK, MY MINIONS!!"

Dozens of shambling crab men pour out of the sea as Jaime heroically cuts them down.

"BUNGLERS!!! BRING ME THE HEAD OF JAIME LANNISTER, MY SWORN NEMESIS!"

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Grath
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Re: Game of Thrones: The TV Show

Postby Grath » Tue May 14, 2019 2:54 pm

Hey so who's hyped for the Star Wars trilogy D&D is in charge of once they get Game of Thrones out of the way?

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beatbandito
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Re: Game of Thrones: The TV Show

Postby beatbandito » Tue May 14, 2019 3:06 pm

Someone has to kill these giants before new life can spring.
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pacobird
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Re: Game of Thrones: The TV Show

Postby pacobird » Tue May 14, 2019 3:20 pm

I...kind of thought it was a good episode? Despite all the problems with S8, oh, the many, many problems, Dany is actually growing as a character in a way none of the others are: she is learning from past experiences and realizing what it means to be queen. She's not going insane, no matter what D&D think. Torching KL, including civilians, only seems irrational if you don't consider how monarchy works, which seems like a weird oversight for the audience to make when following a story that was explicitly written to explore how fucked up High Fantasy politics are.

She tried being nice, seeking a third way, and what did it get her? The only ally that hasn't died or betrayed her is Grey Worm, and now she realizes Olenna was right when she told her she had to be a dragon.
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Rico
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Re: Game of Thrones: The TV Show

Postby Rico » Tue May 14, 2019 3:25 pm

I proposed in a conversation with Paul earlier that we pass a law against creators giving completely unearned word of God about their properties, specifically recently targeted at GoT and Endgame but of course called the Rowling Act.

I do still disagree a bit with your take, but it's certainly a hell of a lot more sensible than Benioff and Weiss' "forgot about the fleet" and "decided to make it personal" absolute fucking nonsense.

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beatbandito
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Re: Game of Thrones: The TV Show

Postby beatbandito » Tue May 14, 2019 3:26 pm

pacobird wrote:I...kind of thought it was a good episode? Despite all the problems with S8, oh, the many, many problems, Dany is actually growing as a character in a way none of the others are: she is learning from past experiences and realizing what it means to be queen. She's not going insane, no matter what D&D think. Torching KL, including civilians, only seems irrational if you don't consider how monarchy works, which seems like a weird oversight for the audience to make when following a story that was explicitly written to explore how fucked up High Fantasy politics are.

She tried being nice, seeking a third way, and what did it get her? The only ally that hasn't died or betrayed her is Grey Worm, and now she realizes Olenna was right when she told her she had to be a dragon.
wat?

not to be dismissive of your opinion, but please explain how her decision in the context it was made was "only irrational if you don't consider how monarchy works". Please explain how the ruler with the claim by blood, claim by marriage, and claim by force had to decide to kill innocents after completely disarming a hated monarch who had no actual claim to the throne and is most known for being shamed by the religion of the land, blowing up the high church of the religion of the land, and fucking her brother.
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pacobird
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Re: Game of Thrones: The TV Show

Postby pacobird » Tue May 14, 2019 3:27 pm

Danaerys spent 7 seasons trying to be loved. How has that worked out for her?

Literally every Westerosi ally she had either betrayed her or died before they got the chance. They've all clearly demonstrated she can't trust a single one of them, so what does she have to lose by slaughtering everybody and starting with a clean slate?

lease explain how the ruler with the claim by blood, claim by marriage, and claim by force had to decide to kill innocents after completely disarming a hated monarch who had no actual claim to the throne and is most known for being shamed by the religion of the land, blowing up the high church of the religion of the land, and fucking her brother.


We know the two possible outcomes of the game of thrones, and in order to win, Dany has to make sure everybody - everybody - else "loses". These were always the stakes, and it took Episode 4 (which was nevertheless a mess) to set up the situation necessary for her to understand it.
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pacobird
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Re: Game of Thrones: The TV Show

Postby pacobird » Tue May 14, 2019 3:40 pm

EDIT: would it make more sense if I said this is basically the ending of Dune?
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zaratustra
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Re: Game of Thrones: The TV Show

Postby zaratustra » Tue May 14, 2019 4:28 pm

You know how one strategy to win Werewolf is to remain as quiet as possible so no one can hold anything against you?

Let's talk about Jon Snow.

Niku
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Re: Game of Thrones: The TV Show

Postby Niku » Tue May 14, 2019 4:46 pm

the show doesn't have the budget for bigwolves much less for werewolves
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Friday
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Re: Game of Thrones: The TV Show

Postby Friday » Tue May 14, 2019 4:55 pm

Personally, while Dune did cross my mind, I think it's more like "I used the nuclear bomb because it actually SAVES lives" justification that the united states used and still uses and will always use and right now one of you is going to post and use.

Sorry, no. Nuking cities with bombs/dragons is a war crime, and all it takes to realize that is to be on the losing side and have the winner hold you accountable.
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pacobird
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Re: Game of Thrones: The TV Show

Postby pacobird » Tue May 14, 2019 5:11 pm

I wouldn't say she was justified, just that there's a logical thread to this heel turn that resonates really well with the central theme of the story regardless of whether D&D understand it well enough to make it clear.

On the subject of the dragons being WMD, one thing I liked that I don't think was intentional was that it made perfect sense how easily Dany bypassed the scorpions this time: long-range artillery has a really straightforward solution - take the risk to charge in close before it can hit you - but in order to do it she had to stop thinking about Drogon as her child rather than a weapon.
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Friday
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Re: Game of Thrones: The TV Show

Postby Friday » Tue May 14, 2019 5:31 pm

Oh, I know you didn't mean it was justified. I meant in her own head she justified it. She says so while on her throne "so that future generations will never suffer under a tyrant again" or something like that.
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pacobird
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Re: Game of Thrones: The TV Show

Postby pacobird » Tue May 14, 2019 5:41 pm

That's, like, kind of the point, though? That's what tyrants always say!
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Brentai
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Re: Game of Thrones: The TV Show

Postby Brentai » Tue May 14, 2019 5:52 pm

Friday wrote:Personally, while Dune did cross my mind, I think it's more like "I used the nuclear bomb because it actually SAVES lives" justification that the united states used and still uses and will always use and right now one of you is going to post and use.


Not even knowing what the fuck you're talking about I'm sure the same followup question still applies: "How does that explain your decision to do it in the middle of a major civilian population center?"

Wait a minute... Jon *ow... the princess is a nuclear allegory... WAIT A MINUTE...
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Friday
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Re: Game of Thrones: The TV Show

Postby Friday » Tue May 14, 2019 5:59 pm

That's, like, kind of the point, though? That's what tyrants always say!


No, I agree! I was just offering my take on "why she did it."

"How does that explain your decision to do it in the middle of a major civilian population center?"


Exactly. There's no excuse for using a WMD on a civilian target. And, well, since there's not really any military target that would require a WMD to destroy...
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Büge
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Re: Game of Thrones: The TV Show

Postby Büge » Tue May 14, 2019 10:12 pm



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beatbandito
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Re: Game of Thrones: The TV Show

Postby beatbandito » Wed May 15, 2019 5:19 am

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Gummiw
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Re: Game of Thrones: The TV Show

Postby Gummiw » Wed May 15, 2019 1:43 pm

Last episode was epic, I didn't expect that the town will be destroyed so much. When final episode will be aired I will be here in my French Riviera property and will have to watch it alone as nobody in my family there doesn't like this TV show for some reason, they didn't even watch it for 5 minutes. It's a pity because it's worth the time spend on it.

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