Game of Thrones: The TV Show

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Mothra
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Re: Game of Thrones: The TV Show

Postby Mothra » Fri May 23, 2014 4:43 pm

Thad wrote:io9: Meet The New Characters Who Will Join Game Of Thrones In Season 5

Pretty spoiler-free if you've caught up on the show; you'll get more out of it if you've read the books and know who these characters are.

Very Dorne-centric. There's a hell of a lot of Dorne stuff in the next two books and I reasonably assumed it would be one of the first things on the chopping block; I expect that the coming seasons won't be as ruthless in excising unnecessary material as the first few were, for the simple reason that otherwise we're going to catch up with the books pretty soon.

Meanwhile, in the current season: three episodes left. I expect we'll see trial by combat, the attack on the Wall, and then an episode mopping up. The mopping up will presumably bring Tyrion, Jon, Arya, and Davos to their respective positions from the end of book 3, and probably advance Dany and Theon's original-to-the-show subplots. And speaking of Theon, hey, we haven't checked in at the Iron Islands all season; wonder what's happening up there?

I expect it'll end with the same scene as the book, too, with a possible change of cast. I've seen some theorizing that Brienne will meet Stoneheart sooner in the show than in the books and I think that's a good idea.

I'm kind of wondering when this whole Theon Greyjoy plot is going to be over with. Started just skipping his scenes altogether this season.

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Re: Game of Thrones: The TV Show

Postby Thad » Fri May 23, 2014 5:06 pm

Depends on how many more detours they take. I think the remainder of his arc from book 5 could be woven through one more season pretty easily but, depending on the pace of everyone else's arcs, they might spread it out across two. The climax of his arc in the fifth book is pretty closely intertwined with a couple of other major characters', and I'd expect them to keep that in the show, but maybe not. The book pulls some Unreliable Narrator shit where some major revelations are made in a letter and may or may not be true; on the one hand, I don't think that kind of thing transfers well to the screen, but on the other, giving the audience more definitive answers would mean going beyond the end of the latest book and I expect they'll put that off as long as they can.

(Conjecture: letter will be replaced with messenger. Possibly topless.)

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Re: Game of Thrones: The TV Show

Postby Grath » Fri May 23, 2014 5:19 pm

Thad wrote:Possibly Definitely topless.)


Fixed that for ya.

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Re: Game of Thrones: The TV Show

Postby TA » Fri May 23, 2014 5:28 pm

I dunno, the way they did the letter at the end of Season 3 was pretty good, they could do things that way.

Part of the thing is that Theon's plot can't really progress all that much until Jon's and Stannis's have done a lot more.
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Re: Game of Thrones: The TV Show

Postby Thad » Tue May 27, 2014 5:58 pm

Spoilers up through the most recent episode:


All spoilertags below are for things from the books that haven't happened on the show yet. I've tried to keep them vague enough that they don't reveal much, but at a minimum they spoil certain characters surviving the end of the season, and ending up in potentially interesting and unexpected places. You probably shouldn't hover them if you aren't caught up on the books. All of them.

TA wrote:Part of the thing is that Theon's plot can't really progress all that much until Jon's and Stannis's have done a lot more.


That would be who I was referring to when I said "The climax of his arc in the fifth book is pretty closely intertwined with a couple of other major characters'," yeah. But there's some fairly major stuff that happens before that: the entire Winterfell/fake Arya sequence can get rolling, and Mance and his spearwives don't need to be there for the first part of it.

(And here's how much I missed when reading the book: I thought that the minstrel and his wives were Tom O'Sevens and members of the Brotherhood Without Banners, there on Lady Stoneheart's orders, instead of Mance and his spearwives there on Jon's. On the one hand, I guess I'm a little slow sometimes. On the other, that would have been interesting, and you would think the news about "Arya" would get her attention.)

Now, the show COULD skip that stuff entirely -- Jeyne Poole isn't even a character on the show, and it's not ENTIRELY necessary to Theon's arc -- but I expect they'll keep it, not least because we haven't been back to Winterfell in a few seasons but also because, as I noted, the show's likelier to keep unnecessary material now than it was even a year ago. Plus, it seems to be what the current Ramsay arc is building toward, with Roose demanding he prove his worth to earn his title, as opposed to the books where Ramsay's recognition as a true heir was a condition of Roose's deal with Tywin Lannister.

Actually, there's one more major character who plays a small but pivotal role in Theon's arc and needs to be moved into place before that can happen: Bran, speaking to him through the Heart Tree. Again, not necessary, but it would probably be a good idea to include, if only to give that character something to fucking do.

MEANWHILE:

The season finale is titled "The Children". My first thought was that we'd be going to Dorne and seeing Doran since "the children" is a phrase repeated throughout his chapters in the books, but seeing as he doesn't appear to be cast yet I would have to assume it's not actually a direct reference to that refrain. And there are plenty of children on the show as it is. I expect we'll be seeing some closure to Arya's Book 3 arc, and maybe more of Melisandre's search for King's Blood to sacrifice.

Oh, and further thoughts on next season's apparent Dorne-stravaganza: maybe all the Dorne side-story IS going to have a big payoff in the last two books. Young Griff may be pretty keen on making his own way for now, but he's bound to look to Dorne for support sooner or later.

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Re: Game of Thrones: The TV Show

Postby Mothra » Sun Jun 01, 2014 11:58 pm

Re: The Mountain and the Viper:

Holy fucking shit.

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Re: Game of Thrones: The TV Show

Postby pacobird » Mon Jun 02, 2014 2:49 pm

bros i am stoked for the grey worm character arc

dude is davos-level likable
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Re: Game of Thrones: The TV Show

Postby zaratustra » Tue Jun 03, 2014 9:23 am

I take Grey Worm isn't very well developed in the books? His wiki entry is just 'yah he's an eunuch' and that's about it.

Also from the wiki I see that Jorah's plot was hurried along at the end - in the books he's just a Nice Guy for so long Dani gets sick of it and sends him packing. Which would have been hilarious but oh well, THE HOUND YOU JUST GOT TROLLLLLLLLED makes up for it.

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Re: Game of Thrones: The TV Show

Postby pacobird » Tue Jun 03, 2014 1:54 pm

I take Grey Worm isn't very well developed in the books? His wiki entry is just 'yah he's an eunuch' and that's about it.


He's stoic (really, he's spent his whole life having his personality beaten out of him) and not a PoV character, so yeah the books don't really give you a lot of insight into his motivations or inner life, but I'm judging him on his actions/decisions, and he's basically the anti-Hound.

It would be really easy to let him fall by the wayside in favor of wittier characters, which Martin appears to have done. I'm glad HBO's correcting this; hopefully he'll get some tension via the Dedicated Soldier Finds Something to Lose, Has Doubt storyline.
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Re: Game of Thrones: The TV Show

Postby TA » Tue Jun 03, 2014 2:06 pm

Well, Martin sticks hard to that viewpoint character thing, which the show isn't bound by. So they can have things happen in Meereen that Danaerys doesn't personally witness, and such.
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Re: Game of Thrones: The TV Show

Postby Thad » Tue Jun 03, 2014 10:59 pm

Initial reactions:

While this episode all built up to Oberyn's big moment, the part that stood out to me was Sansa's scene. In fairness, that's because I already knew what happened in Oberyn's scene. Sansa's? That was new, and it spoke directly to what we've been talking about here. It even explained my question about her hair from a few weeks ago. (Well, from the writers' perspective. From Littlefinger's and Sansa's, it still doesn't make much sense that they didn't dye her hair before they made it to the Vale.)

But this is huge: this is Sansa starting to play the game. The books have hinted that's going to happen at some point, but this is the first we've ever SEEN it, in books or show. And, moreover, the books have suggested that Littlefinger's going to teach her how -- but this episode has Sansa showing her own initiative. He may have told her what to say -- she sticks to his suicide story, though we don't know what else is his suggestion and which is her decision -- but it's clear from their scene later that we're meant to take this as a moment where she takes her own destiny into her hands. She's lied to protect herself before, but it's always been meek and transparent, never this brazen. And in the books, she doesn't go around telling lords and ladies who she is. That's part of what's so expert about this -- her story is almost entirely true, which is what makes it such a good damn lie. The kid's a natural.

The bit with Robin is new too, and a good idea as it's going to give him, Littlefinger, and Sansa something to do next season.

The scene with Arya and the Hound was new too, and though brief I thought it was great.

Also, the bit in the beginning where the people at the brothel request The Rains of Castamere and then The Bear and the Maiden Fair? Even the show itself is starting to make fun of how there are only two songs in Westeros.

A brief weird moment: Daenerys refers to Robert as "the man who killed my father and stole my brother's throne". Shouldn't it be the other way around? I mean, I guess he waged a war against her father that LED to his death, and took the throne that WOULD have been her brother's if he hadn't killed him, but...while it kind of works metaphorically, "killed my brother and stole my father's throne" would be a whole lot more accurate.

Oh, and Tyrion's scene was great too. That search for meaning, the futile hope that somehow everything makes sense if you just try hard enough to understand it -- that's not only an essential part of Tyrion's character, it's an essential part of why he's the only modern man in this fantasy world. The latest goddamn mass shooting (something the show couldn't have predicted would be in the news right before it aired -- or, sadly, probably could have) is one more reminder of the senseless violence in the world and our tendency to try and construct some sort of narrative around it, to make it make sense. Because things just happening for no reason, people just doing evil things for their own sake -- THAT'S what's horrifying.

Martin's very measured in his creation of evil characters with no motivations -- even Joffrey is tragic and pitiable, after his own fashion. (As I've said before, he's probably got some bad genes but he's a product of his environment too -- a distant, alcoholic, occasionally violent father, and a mother who won't give him any boundaries of any sort and actively encourages his belief that everyone else is his plaything. He's a child given an immense amount of power and no guidance on how to use it -- there are plenty of indications he might just be a psychopath, but it's also possible that if he'd been raised differently he would have become a different person.) I would say there are really only two characters in the series who are just straight-up sadists with no redeeming or extenuating qualities -- and they both have big moments in this episode.


Responding to thread: Yeah, the Grey Worm subplot is a welcome change. And I like how it contrasts with Varys asserting in the previous episode that he was asexual even before he was castrated.

zaratustra wrote:Also from the wiki I see that Jorah's plot was hurried along at the end - in the books he's just a Nice Guy for so long Dani gets sick of it and sends him packing.


No, she finds out he's a spy in the books too.

Refresh my memory -- did the show give us the prophecy about Daenerys's three betrayals, or not? In the books, she's told she'll be betrayed once for money, once for love, and once for blood. She assumes this was the betrayal for money, but given that fantasy prophecies tend to come with a healthy dose of dramatic irony, I'm inclined to think she's wrong.

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Re: Game of Thrones: The TV Show

Postby Mongrel » Wed Jun 04, 2014 1:00 am

I'm just going to leave this here:

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Re: Game of Thrones: The TV Show

Postby Thad » Wed Jun 04, 2014 2:20 am

A couple I forgot to mention:

Petyr mentioning people dying while squatting on the privy. A bit much.

AND

Jaime's observation that there's no word for killing a cousin. Nice touch.

Jaime killing his cousin was original to the TV show. In the books he may be Kingslayer but he's no Kinslayer; slaying kin is rather a big fucking deal, but nobody on the show seems to know about it.

Other kinslayers of note on the show: Stannis killed Renly -- or ordered his murder, at any rate -- and was prepared to kill Gendry, and Lord Karstark gave that whole "Kill me and be cursed" speech right before Robb executed him, and they were only distant cousins.

And in book 5, we find out that Ramsay killed his brother.

I suppose you can count the Mountain as an honorable mention.

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Re: Game of Thrones: The TV Show

Postby Thad » Fri Jun 06, 2014 5:47 pm

Now available in the Google Play store: Hodor Keyboard, which does exactly what you think it does.

Extra bonus: If your passwords are Hodor, this is by far the fastest way to log in.

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Re: Game of Thrones: The TV Show

Postby Kayma » Sat Jun 07, 2014 11:14 am

From the store page:

-- Swipe right to delete a character (make sure you delete the ones everyone loves first!)


yuck yuck yuck

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Re: Game of Thrones: The TV Show

Postby TA » Tue Jun 10, 2014 1:22 am

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Re: Game of Thrones: The TV Show

Postby Büge » Tue Jun 10, 2014 11:06 am

Also don't read the books ahead of time.

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Re: Game of Thrones: The TV Show

Postby Thad » Thu Jun 12, 2014 5:13 pm


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Re: Game of Thrones: The TV Show

Postby TA » Sun Jun 15, 2014 7:23 pm

So, two things. First, this is an actual ad that aired. Spoilers presumably abound in the comments.


Second, holy shit this is airing on Father's Day and you just absolutely know what's gonna happen in this one, that's just too perfect.
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Re: Game of Thrones: The TV Show

Postby Mothra » Mon Jun 16, 2014 4:09 pm

I can't believe The Hound is fucking dead.

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