Star Wars

[Mongrel]

Yeah, like the underlying IDEA behind the prequels is just fine. It's just told so amazingly horribly badly.

[Brantly B.]

You'd have to scrub more than just the poor moviemaking to make the prequels a satisfying lead-in to Episode 4. You'd basically have to change every character's backgrounds, motivations, ideologies and methods.

[Mongrel]

Well, that's not so hard to do as all that. After all they're already muddy enough in the movies. Anakin for instance would be fine as a workable character - "talented, popular, charismatic guy who is insecure, covers it with ego and cockiness, might've turned out good if he kept his head, but loses his shit and goes bad" is still perfectly doable. That's a classic tragedy archetype right there.

Ideologies need to be changed, sure but that'll be noticed the least of all the changes, though Anakin as a budding fascist is actually very workable and makes perfect sense.

I'm not sure the backgrounds need to be changed much other than Amidala's which is sort of a hilarious car crash. Palpatine has no revealed background in the movies (and his background seems fine anyway) and Anakin can still be a deliberate creation by Palpatine's or his predecessor*. Maybe Qui-Gon is a bit of a boat anchor, not sure how to clean him up, but I don't think it would take extreme measures and he's not as important overall except to Obi-Wan's development. Obi-Wan seems fine as just a newer guy who overreaches himself after his own master dies early - that's fine as a background. By far the most important character backgrounds are Anakin and Palpatine, and the existing material seems easy to work with there. Most of the other villains are paper-thin as characters so you can do whatever you want with them.

Really if the films are properly centred around Anakin such that he really is the main character, and you make him genuinely likeable for the first two films, you're 80% of the way there already.

*The backstory, which is very faintly alluded to in the movies but in no way made clear, is essentially that the good old sith rule of 2 has been plodding along for centuries, when along comes Palpatine's predecessor, Plagueis. Plagueis was a bit out of the ordinary for a Sith lord, being more of a kooky mad scientist type, only with the Force, and that whether it was Palpatine or Plagueis who did it, Anakin was the result of this research. Plagueis' kookyness also enabled Palpatine, allowing him to start off earlier and in better shape than most Sith lords would have otherwise. I think that you can rework that as a simple genetic experiment using DNA from force-sensitives. That's a bit "science-y" but I think it works fine without mentioning midichlorians at all. Powerful family lines being strong in the Force is an established and uncontroversial thing, and having it be some sort of DNA experiment could just be Dr. Frankenstein moment. There are probably lots of ways you could spin it and have it be just fine, though Anakin as a good-looking, charismatic, Frankenstein's monster makes for a pretty damned compelling narratibve.

[Blossom]

I think you need to keep Qui-Gon as an exemplar of how the Jedi Council has lost its way, rendering them unable to deal with Palpatine's rise. If he'd raised Anakin there wouldn't have been a Vader.

[Mongrel]

Yeah, that sounds fine. Seems like a structural revision would do good work.

If you were to remake the three movies, the first might show him being adopted, but growing to a young man (so, sort of including part of Ep II), maybe he's found at first (qui-gon might be dead before this or maybe not?), then you let some time pass, and Anakin becomes old enough to become an Apprentice. Obiwan takes him on, and the main thread of the movie culminates in them taking on a sith threat and beating it, bonding with obi-wan and probably Amidala buddy movie style. Maybe Amidala has a whole new origin. This should be a really upbeat movie like episode 4, with maybe a "buddy movie" thing going on. Obi-wan as the 20-something trying to act like an older, wiser leader and Anakin eager to prove himself for the first time.

The second could show Anakin's rise as a leader in his own right, with the Clone Wars starting 1/3rd or 1/4 into the movie. Anakin should still be very likeable, but play more of a Captain Kirk type, railing at rules and regulations. Amidala is a senior republic commander or political leader and you can have the romance begin here. Maybe the separatists have a big push using a surprise attack and they're pushing very hard for the capital and core territories (thanks to intel and resources supplied by Palpatine of course), so the end-of-movie victory in a revised Ep II would be to turn back their attack in a "Gettysburg" battle, with Anakin as a big hero using unorthodox tactics. Sometimes people ask what the Jedi are doing for them, skeptical about the order, and Anakin still strives to prove them wrong and show that the Jedi are a force for good. Maybe Obi-Wan is even a little resentful of how popular his apprentice is. Palpatine should still become chancellor in the second movie; it's a good time for that to happen.

Then in the third, the Clone Wars is going so-so but not great, and Anakin pushes for some increasingly ruthless Consequentialist strategies to allow the Republic to win. His tactics work, but he has alienated his friends who are now afraid of him a bit (or a lot). There are uncomfortable tones of abuse in his relationship with Amidala, which also worsens close friends' view of him. He responds to this new isolation with disillusionment and feelings of betrayal. leading to a FINE! LET ME BE A MONSTER THEN! moment where he denounces the Jedi, framing himself as a "maverick hero" and whistleblower, using his popularity with the general public to help turn the public against the Jedi. Even then, at first this is purely limited to stripping the Jedi of their privileges and perhaps arresting them. You can even have some Jedi go along with this and allow themselves to be arrested to seem like good citizens who uphold Republican laws, under a misapprehension that they will be dealt with fairly and to try and prove the "maverick" Anakin wrong. Those who flee or refuse to be arrested have to question themselves as they are now lawbreakers - so who is right? Them or Anankin? This should all be prior to the war ending, so that it looks like Anakin is a hero for winning the war and justifying the removal of the Jedi "obstacles" to a final victory. This is where Palpatine planning comes in - he stops sabotaging the republic's efforts and instead has the separatists crippled at a key moment, which he can do because he's just been pulling strings all along. Anyway, Amidala leaves Anakin, afraid of him, which unbalances him further and this combined with Palpatine's manipulations (maybe Paplatine reveals his origin in a sideways manipulative way), he can finally go full monster where he goes nuts killing the Jedi who have "kidnapped" his wife while Palpatine officially outlaws the Jedi, who have (in this version) at least had some good long build up to being hated.

I mean, this is all pipe-dream stuff sure, but it's very possible to take the basic building blocks of the prequels and tell a very good story with them. There's wars, betrayals, schemes, mighty heroes, evil emperors, great families, falling empires, coups, assassinations, laser swords, explosions... holy crap to screw that up you gotta be George Lucas.

[Büge]

Just as long as Amidala doesn't die of a broken heart. That was a cringingly melodramatic cherry on top of the trilogy.

[Mongrel]

That was a metaphor for the fans' association with Lucas.

[Thad]

I think playing up Qui-Gon's, Obi-Wan's, and Anakin's disagreements with the Jedi would be a good idea. Qui-Gon was defined largely in terms of being a maverick who disagreed with the Council but barely shared screen time with them, Obi-Wan was too much of a kiss-ass, and Anakin was too whiny.

For their part, the Council never showed any evidence of being worth a shit; all of them were consistently wrong about absolutely everything, all the time, and really the only thing that established them as the good guys was that they were the ones not murdering schoolchildren. The Jedi Council needs more shading, more indication that they actually might be right instead of just a bunch of incompetent old men who can't recognize a Sith Lord when he is literally standing right the fuck next to them.

Actually the Topher Grace cut sounds really promising; I'm surprised I haven't seen a fan cut try to duplicate it.

[Mongrel]

All of those are solid points, completely agree.

The main thing I keep coming back to is that for the story to work on any level, the main character absolutely be Anakin. And, at least for the first two movies, the audience needs to want to like him. Without that, the whole prequel story arc is completely meaningless.

[Classic]

So...
What if Star Wars was Good is old hat?

[Mongrel]

Star Wars IS good.

Just not the prequels >:3

[Thad]

Or most of Jedi.

[Mongrel]

And now the nerd debate.

Jedi is fine. It's not perfect, but it's fine. It has more than enough excellent parts to stand with the original trilogy over being lumped in with the prequels.

[Brantly B.]

One of these days when I have enough spare time* I'd like to do a video about it, but it's my honest belief that Episode V is really what "ruined" Star Wars for most people. The premise basically boils down to this:

Episode 4: Schlocky space opera.
Episode 5: Epic, character-driven saga with deep spiritual messages that explores the nature of good and evil.
Episode 6: Schlocky space opera.
Episode 1: Schlocky space opera.
Episode 2: Schlocky space opera.
Episode 3: Schlocky space opera.

If you ask most people what they think of Star Wars, they'll probably say it's a fun, but ultimately kind of schlocky space opera.

If you ask a Star Wars fan what they think of Star Wars, they'll probably say it's an epic, character-driven saga with deep spiritual messages that explores the nature of good and evil.

Episode 6 is basically the start of a trend of people getting increasingly upset that most of Star Wars isn't actually anything like The Empire Strikes Back.

* Never.

[Classic]

I more meant this pair of youTube videos by this excited beardman:

[Büge]

Yeah, if they could have left Boba Fett, C-3P0, R2-D2 and Chewbacca out of the prequels, it would have been nice.

Actually, scratch that. If Threepio and Artoo showed up anywhere, it should have been in Bail Organa's retinue. Which brings me to another thing: Bail should have had a larger role in the prequels, like Lando did in the original trilogy. Someone who, for example, Obi-Wan goes to help out in the middle of the second film, and then has a larger role in the third, possibly as a fall guy for Palpatine.

[Thad]

Jedi is fine. It's not perfect, but it's fine. It has more than enough excellent parts to stand with the original trilogy over being lumped in with the prequels.

On the one hand, it had the big confrontation with Luke, Vader, and the Emperor.

On the other, it had teddy bears and a second Death Star.

It was probably a better movie than Episode 3. But not for lack of trying.

[Mongrel]

Jedi is fine. It's not perfect, but it's fine. It has more than enough excellent parts to stand with the original trilogy over being lumped in with the prequels.

On the one hand, it had the big confrontation with Luke, Vader, and the Emperor.

On the other, it had teddy bears and a second Death Star.

It was probably a better movie than Episode 3. But not for lack of trying.

Sure. For me, personally, the superstructure chase/battle (probably the best choreographed space battle scene on film) , 'Return of the Jedi' (the minute preceding and four minutes following artoo throwing Luke his saber at Jabba's Palace), and the confrontation (especially every last bit of Palpatine's dialogue, and "I am a Jedi, like my father before me.") absolve a lot of crimes.

I can't point to even one moment in the prequels equal to any of those.

[Büge]

(link to huge)

[Esperath]

So uh, A New Hope with Dreamworks smirk.