Venture Bros.

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Thad
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Re: Venture Bros.

Postby Thad » Mon Jan 12, 2015 11:20 pm


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Re: Venture Bros.

Postby zaratustra » Tue Jan 13, 2015 6:27 am

Thad wrote:There's probably a dissertation somewhere in comparing Dr. Venture's "Brock, am I...a bad person?" (not from this episode but pretty relevant to it) to Wreck-It Ralph's "You are bad guy, but this does not mean you are bad guy" to Moffat-era Doctor Who's play with the question of whether the Doctor is a good man.


I believe the fundamental difference is that Dr. Venture leads mostly an unexamined existence, coasting into whatever he feels like doing because he is the Hero, the Man of Action, the Great White Man who is morally superior. This he believes despite any action on his part: Dr. Venture is the embodiment of privilege, not only in physical possessions but moral purpose despite any lack of action that would justify this morality.

The Doctor is kind of the opposite in that while Dr. Venture is a man of inaction, the Doctor is a man of overaction. The Doctor is a kind of drama vortex that pulls the entire plot towards him: where he goes, problems will get solved, empires will be toppled, things will change. And so the Doctor must constantly employ this for the sake of the oppressed.

So you could reduce the philosophy of both to this: If you have sufficient power, even a neutral/selfish stance is morally wrong, because with sufficient power, you hurt others without noticing.

Wreck-it Ralph shares with Dr. Venture in that both have mostly theatrical roles. Dr. Ventrue is assigned the role of Action Boy and super-scientist but doesn't really want to be anything. Ralph is assigned the role of Villain, of destroyer in a perpetually regenerating and cycling world: hating Ralph is as pointless as hating the wind. Yet he tries to fight his fate, and that's why he's a 'hero' and Dr. Venture is an invertebrate.

(insert something about privilege and the untouchable castes here)

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Re: Venture Bros.

Postby Thad » Tue Jan 13, 2015 12:43 pm

Oh, absolutely. What's poignant about "Brock, am I...a bad person?" is that this moment of introspection and self-examination is forced on Doc. He doesn't go looking for it (though he certainly invites it when he makes his deal with the devil). He's confronted with it, forced to stare it down, and left literally naked and vulnerable.

I made a similar point about the episode where Hank and Hatred phony-kidnap Doc and demand to know why he's made Dean his protege and left Hank out, and he says it's because Hank's too much like him and doesn't want or deserve the burden.

Doc's so self-centered and self-deluding (and so consistently blames everyone else for his own failures) that when that's stripped away and he says something honest and insightful about his failings, it's something that you sit up and notice.

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Re: Venture Bros.

Postby Thad » Tue Jan 20, 2015 11:54 pm

Welp, that threw a couple interesting curves.

Sure seemed to imply that Sovereign and Jonas Jr aren't coming back, though of course it's the kind of show where anybody can come back no matter how final the demise may seem.

Big shakeup in the Thirteen -- and does this mean Gary's going to be a member now?

And I'm curious how much they're going to play with the damage to the Venture compound -- will they have to move in somewhere else for season 6, or will they just be finishing up the repairs when the season starts?

Course, Lord only knows when season 6 will actually kick off in earnest. But nice to get something new anyway.

Also nice to get Colbert back. Wonder if they'll use him any more in the coming season -- it's not like he's got a TV show for the next eight months.

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Re: Venture Bros.

Postby Classic » Wed Jan 21, 2015 1:49 am

I think Sovereign is coming back sooner rather than later. Venture Bros. explores the tension between reality and compelling storytelling. Sometimes that means honoring the outlandish. Sometimes it means lamp-shading tropes. Sometimes it means outright violating them. I'm betting the big reveal is going to be that that eagle was just an eagle, and the Sovereign was way clear of the site 4 minutes before that explosion. And that'll learn the audience for buying into the language of film storytelling.

Agree that Jonas Jr. and Traester are 110% offed though... Unless JJr. got some magic out of the investors before the noble sacrifice. But... I don't think so? Why do the blaze of glory thing if he was going to get some immortality? When would there have been time for the final dealing to occur?

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Re: Venture Bros.

Postby Thad » Wed Jan 21, 2015 2:40 am

Classic wrote:I think Sovereign is coming back sooner rather than later. Venture Bros. explores the tension between reality and compelling storytelling. Sometimes that means honoring the outlandish. Sometimes it means lamp-shading tropes. Sometimes it means outright violating them. I'm betting the big reveal is going to be that that eagle was just an eagle, and the Sovereign was way clear of the site 4 minutes before that explosion. And that'll learn the audience for buying into the language of film storytelling.


Oh, it's absolutely a possibility. On the other hand, I'm not sure what the point would be; I feel like his arc (such as it was) has run its course and there was nowhere else for him to go. I think a new status quo without him in it is inherently more interesting then bringing him back.

But then again, I've thought "well, that's run its course and I don't see any more potential there" so many times about so many different threads on this show, and been so frequently wrong, that I wouldn't put much stock in my instincts. If Publick and Hammer have an interesting angle I haven't thought of, then I'm sure I'll be pleasantly surprised as always.

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Re: Venture Bros.

Postby Thad » Thu Jan 22, 2015 12:34 pm

Oh hey, and here's an epilogue.



Sure seems to be implying they won't be coming back to the Venture Compound for awhile.

And that no Gary is not on the Council.

That earlier promo sure indicated pretty strongly that the Monarch would be taking on a new costumed identity and killing a bunch of Guild members. Which will probably maybe still happen? It is not at all clear how we're getting there from here, but of course this show likes to throw curves and invert alliances all the time.

And on the one hand, yes Sheila is on the Council now, but on the other, Phantom Limb is back on too, so there's some immediate potential motivation for the Monarch to fuck with them. Plus, I doubt we've seen the last of the Guild's internal strife and infighting.

ALSO: I want an MP3 of that accordion funeral rendition of Mmmm Mmmm Mmmm Mmmm.

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Re: Venture Bros.

Postby Mothra » Thu Jan 22, 2015 2:16 pm

Just watched Gargantua 2. Really liked it, particularly Dr. Girlfriend's arc.

Psyched for season 6.

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Re: Venture Bros.

Postby Thad » Mon Sep 07, 2015 4:12 pm


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Re: Venture Bros.

Postby Thad » Wed Oct 28, 2015 6:49 pm


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Re: Venture Bros.

Postby Mothra » Thu Oct 29, 2015 12:56 pm

Hnnngggggg

Love how far Dean is past giving a shit about the small stuff. He's like Dr. Venture in his more confident moments.

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Re: Venture Bros.

Postby Thad » Mon Feb 01, 2016 9:09 pm

I don't really have much to say about the new episode except that man I sure missed this show and it's great to have it back.

(And okay I love Brown Widow's needlessly verbose Stan Lee internal monologue, but it was already in the trailer.)

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Re: Venture Bros.

Postby Lottel » Tue Mar 01, 2016 4:08 am

I'm just going to spoiler this whole thing.

So this is this the season where they reveal that Rusty and The Monarch are the titular Venture Brothers? First it was Hank and Dean, but that gave away to Rusty and Jonas Jr. Now with the latter dead, they're moving on to the other Brothers. Rusty and the Monarch.

Everyone confuses Blue Morpho for Rusty, sure, and I know it sounds silly to say they really do have the same chin hair so they must be related (even though that was the only thing Rusty shared looks-wise with Jonas Jr.) But we saw the original Blue Morpho and Jonas Sr. in that tape and that tape was very, very interesting. Not only does it foreshadow the falling out of BM and JSr. in a very telling way, it also shows those two are connected in sexual activities as well. JSr. mentions he likes how BM is disgraced and no one trusts him, we also know that JSr. is impressed by BM's inventions.

At the same time, the sexual connection between Jonas and Blue Morpho matter. If you go back and look at the photo of young Monarch and young Rusty hanging out together (from the episode where the Monarch poses as a beaver exterminator), you see Jonas laughing and touching Ms. Blue Morpho as Blue Morpho stands nearby. It's a reach to say that Jonas and Ms. Morpho have an affair but seeing as Jonas and Blue Morpho have sex on tape with two different women moments after Jonas shows his jealousy towards Blue Morpho's inventions, maybe it's not that far of a reach.

I'll assume down the road that JSr. steals one of BM's inventions, the affair is revealed, they fight, and I'm going to say Jonas has a hand in Morpho's death (knowingly or not) and that's the real reason The Monarch hates Rusty.
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Re: Venture Bros.

Postby Büge » Tue Mar 01, 2016 9:41 am

Lottel wrote:I'm going to say Jonas has a hand in Morpho's death (knowingly or not)


I suspect it's the other way around.

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Re: Venture Bros.

Postby Thad » Sun Mar 13, 2016 2:13 pm

So that was it, right? Just six episodes this season, no season 4-style split season going on? Oh well, was fun while it lasted.

Relatively low-key for a season ender. So was the last one, really, but then we got Gargantua-2 to do the customary "let's blow everything up" routine.

No payoff on the Monarch/Rusty hints, but the cliffhanger sure indicates that their resemblance to one another is going to continue playing a big part in the story going forward.

ETA: Oh, guess there are two more? Well, silly me, then. Guess we'll come back in a week and see if any of this is still accurate.

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Re: Venture Bros.

Postby Mothra » Mon Mar 14, 2016 10:38 pm

Been catching up - on ep 4 of the latest season. This has been just fantastic so far. Easily my favorite season in a long time.

Also, looks like the T-shirt of the month club is back? Didn't realize it was going to keep going!

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Re: Venture Bros.

Postby Mothra » Tue Mar 15, 2016 5:19 pm

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Re: Venture Bros.

Postby Thad » Thu Mar 17, 2016 12:43 am

I don't think the laughs have been as good this season but the storytelling is the tightest it's ever been. The show's always had pretty complex arcs, but it's never told a story this focused before.

Making the Monarch the main character this season has made things pretty fascinating, too. And I dig the subversion of the Green Hornet premise (Green Hornet was a hero pretending to be a villain; Blue Morpho is a villain pretending to be a hero).

Some solid one-off villains, too, as usual. I liked the Andy Warhol/Legion of Doom mashup.

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Re: Venture Bros.

Postby Mothra » Mon Mar 21, 2016 1:38 am

Wait, THAT was the season finale?

Guess they're taking the "we're not even gonna try to shave this down" approach, which... I guess I want, it's just gonna suck waiting another two years to see resolution.

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Re: Venture Bros.

Postby Thad » Tue Mar 22, 2016 12:19 am

Thad wrote:So that was it, right? Just six episodes this season, no season 4-style split season going on? Oh well, was fun while it lasted.

Relatively low-key for a season ender. So was the last one, really, but then we got Gargantua-2 to do the customary "let's blow everything up" routine.

No payoff on the Monarch/Rusty hints, but the cliffhanger sure indicates that their resemblance to one another is going to continue playing a big part in the story going forward.

ETA: Oh, guess there are two more? Well, silly me, then. Guess we'll come back in a week and see if any of this is still accurate.


Everything except the reference to the episode 6 cliffhanger.

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