Batman (created by Bill Finger and Bob Kane)

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Thad
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Re: Batman (created by Bill Finger and Bob Kane)

Postby Thad » Wed Aug 05, 2015 10:43 pm

The last act of Arkham Knight, from the Knight's unmasking onward, is actually pretty great, though it doesn't make up for the prior bullshit.

Also, it DOES have more tank bullshit, and some needlessly spammy combat sequences, and also I hit two nasty bugs that made me replay sections -- during the GCPD battle, I somehow managed to push a guy onto the other side of a fench where I then couldn't reach him and couldn't end the fight and had to reload and re-fight three waves of enemies; the second time, during the multi-Joker fight, I got a BSoD and had to sit through the damn unskippable cutscene leading up to it again. (Memo to developers: just because a player can walk around or move the camera does not mean it is not a cutscene and that it's okay to make it unskippable.)

Aaaand...to get to see Bad End I have to finish seven Most Wanted missions? Okay, I've got five, I think I can handle two more. Wish the game would be better about telling me where to look for the next Azrael or Opera Killing mission, though.

And to get Good End I have to do ALL the Most Wanted missions and find all the Riddler Trophies? Okay no there is absolutely no way I will be doing that.

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Re: Batman (created by Bill Finger and Bob Kane)

Postby Rico » Fri Sep 18, 2015 3:51 pm

"DC Entertainment and the family of Bill Finger are pleased to announce that they have reached an agreement that recognizes Mr. Finger’s significant contributions to the Batman family of characters. "Bill Finger was instrumental in developing many of the key creative elements that enrich the Batman universe, and we look forward to building on our acknowledgement of his significant role in DC Comics’ history," stated Diane Nelson, President of DC Entertainment. "As part of our acknowledgement of those contributions," Nelson continued, "we are pleased to confirm today that Bill Finger will be receiving credit in the Warner Bros. television series Gotham beginning later this season, and in the forthcoming motion picture Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice.""

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Re: Batman (created by Bill Finger and Bob Kane)

Postby Thad » Fri Sep 18, 2015 10:34 pm

Evanier has more. He notes that the press release (1) doesn't mention making any agreement with the Kane estate and (2) doesn't say the credit will read "Batman created by Bob Kane and Bill Finger", so it's reasonable to assume that it won't. So who knows what the credit will be, exactly (could be "Gotham City created by Bill Finger", or "Special thanks to Bill Finger", for example), but any credit is better than no credit. Definitely a step in the right direction, and suggests DC's working on trying to get the full credit he deserves.

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Re: Batman (created by Bill Finger and Bob Kane)

Postby Thad » Wed Sep 30, 2015 1:46 pm

Okay, I get that it's every entertainment site's job to write a complete article about every single tiny detail that trickles out about every major upcoming film, but how does "Live-Action Batman Movie Gets Same MPAA Rating As Last Seven Live-Action Batman Movies" qualify as news?

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Re: Batman (created by Bill Finger and Bob Kane)

Postby Thad » Fri Oct 02, 2015 12:32 pm

The latest issue of Batman '66 features a 1960's-style version of Bane.

Also, on the first page the Riddler shows up wearing a John Astin mask, with his real Frank Gorshin face underneath.

I love this comic.

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Re: Batman (created by Bill Finger and Bob Kane)

Postby Grath » Sat Oct 10, 2015 1:42 am

You know that upcoming The Killing Joke movie? The director got DC's permission to make it R-rated, although he's added that just because he's allowed to doesn't mean he will.

My only concern is... he's getting Mark Hamill and Kevin Conroy, right?

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Re: Batman (created by Bill Finger and Bob Kane)

Postby TA » Sat Oct 10, 2015 2:00 am

My biggest concern is whether he has DC's permission to shut it the fuck down, so we can stop pretending that story wasn't shitty and massively gross.
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Re: Batman (created by Bill Finger and Bob Kane)

Postby Thad » Sat Oct 10, 2015 1:20 pm

Grath wrote:My only concern is... he's getting Mark Hamill and Kevin Conroy, right?


I gotta figure that's the plan. Hamill's already said he wants to do it.

TA wrote:My biggest concern is whether he has DC's permission to shut it the fuck down, so we can stop pretending that story wasn't shitty and massively gross.


I'm not a big fan either (and, not for nothin', neither is the guy who wrote it), but I think it's kind of a dick move to say other people shouldn't be allowed to have a thing they want just because I don't like it.

It is, if nothing else, a pretty important and highly-regarded comic (with fantastic art, though Bolland's one of those guys you can't really adapt to animation). And while I really don't care for its gratuitous violence against its female protagonist, there are some really good ideas, scenes, and themes in there. I can understand its popularity even if I think it's a gross comic that had a serious negative impact on the genre.

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Re: Batman (created by Bill Finger and Bob Kane)

Postby zaratustra » Sat Oct 10, 2015 2:27 pm

Thad wrote:but I think it's kind of a dick move to say other people shouldn't be allowed to have a thing they want just because I don't like it.


"just because I don't like it" implies there isn't a valid reason for not liking it.

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Re: Batman (created by Bill Finger and Bob Kane)

Postby Thad » Sat Oct 10, 2015 3:40 pm

Which might be relevant if this were fucking Twitter and I had written that as a standalone statement instead of half a sentence out of a complete post, immediately followed by clarifying context.

Half-sentence quote taken out of context lacks sufficient context. Well, no fucking shit.

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Re: Batman (created by Bill Finger and Bob Kane)

Postby TA » Sat Oct 10, 2015 5:12 pm

Why should they be allowed to have that thing, though? Lots of offensive and disgusting things were influential at some point, but they don't get cinematic treatment decades later. The Killing joke was a bad, violently misogynistic comic that hurt the field in ways that we're still feeling the impact. Celebrating it with a film remake is fucking shameful.
のほも is such a good word?? the concept is kind of hard to fully get across in translation, but basically it means a feeling of pure, deep, platonic affection, and i think thats beautiful

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Re: Batman (created by Bill Finger and Bob Kane)

Postby Thad » Sat Oct 10, 2015 9:28 pm

TA wrote:Why should they be allowed to have that thing, though?


Free speech and free markets.

Or, alternate answer, because they're friggin' adults and don't need a nanny to decide what media they can and can't consume. I mean, "Why should they be allowed" is some pretty paternalistic language, dude. Why should they be allowed? Why should you be allowed to decide what programming is available for other people to watch?

TA wrote:Lots of offensive and disgusting things were influential at some point, but they don't get cinematic treatment decades later.


And lots do. There have been movies based on Battlefield Earth, Atlas Shrugged, and The Smurfs.

There have been plenty of people who have declared plenty of comics to be objectionable and unfit for public consumption; there was a Humble Bundle on that very theme just last week. What gives you, or me, or anybody else, the right to make that call? We've got the right not to like it, we've got the right to criticize it, we've got the right to boycott it, and we've got the right to wish it wasn't so damn popular and that there weren't a market for a direct-to-video animated adaptation -- and everybody who disagrees with us has the right to like it, to praise it, to buy it, and to be pleased that they got something they want.

TA wrote:The Killing joke was a bad, violently misogynistic comic that hurt the field in ways that we're still feeling the impact. Celebrating it with a film remake is fucking shameful.


You could say exactly the same things about The Night Gwen Stacy Died; I don't recall you being this outraged when they made Amazing Spider-Man 2. Which was, incidentally, a major Hollywood film and not a direct-to-video animated movie for a niche audience.

And, not to go all relative privation here, but there's a lot of shameful stuff going on in the comics industry at any given moment, much of which does harm to real human beings and not just fictitious ones. DC's currently using creative definitions of "creator" to avoid paying the creators of Caitlyn Snow; I think that's a hell of a lot more shameful than making a video out of The Killing Joke.

(And yes I am aware of the irony of linking to Gerry Conway's Tumblr right after excoriating a comic book he wrote.)

I dunno. I don't like The Killing Joke (though, again, I believe it's got some flashes of brilliance in-between all the nastiness). I will not be buying the adaptation. I am not a member of its audience.

But there is an audience. There are people (some of them prominent) who think it's a great work (and it certainly shows a tremendous quality of craft even if you don't like the content). Ultimately this is an entirely subjective question of taste. And I tend to object to the idea of somebody deciding his subjective opinion of the value and taste of a work should be imposed on everybody else, even if I share that opinion myself.

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Re: Batman (created by Bill Finger and Bob Kane)

Postby Thad » Tue Oct 13, 2015 3:44 pm

Thad wrote:Evanier has more. He notes that the press release (1) doesn't mention making any agreement with the Kane estate and (2) doesn't say the credit will read "Batman created by Bob Kane and Bill Finger", so it's reasonable to assume that it won't.


But it turns out it will. In fact, it's only one word off from that credit; Bleeding Cool has a photo of the new credit, which reads "Batman created by Bob Kane with Bill Finger."

There are people arguing about the choice of "with" instead of "and", but I think it's fine. Original idea was Kane's; development was Finger's; and anyway this is a lot better than what I expected.

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Re: Batman (created by Bill Finger and Bob Kane)

Postby Mothra » Thu Oct 15, 2015 3:18 pm

I'll take it!

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Re: Batman (created by Bill Finger and Bob Kane)

Postby Thad » Thu Oct 29, 2015 4:10 pm

So Arkham Knight's back on Steam, though it's got some ridiculous sysreqs. (For the record I played it fine on a computer with only 8GB of RAM. On the other hand, I'm one of the lucky people who the original version of the game worked mostly fine for, once I resolved that CPU overheating issue.)

More interesting for those of us who already bought the game (or anyone who buys it between now and November 16): they're giving away some freebies. (That link is from the Ars article; I do not know why the header and nav text is in Greek.)

To kick things off, we will be giving away FREE digital copies of games from the Batman: Arkham library. This means we will be giving away copies of Batman: Arkham Asylum GOTY, Batman: Arkham City GOTY, Batman: Arkham Origins, and Batman: Arkham Origins Blackgate. The Batman: Arkham library of games will be given to everyone who has already purchased or will purchase Batman: Arkham Knight for PC prior to 11:59 pm PDT, November 16, 2015. We’re actively working with our partners at Valve to make this happen as soon as we can, so watch your Steam Library. We are aiming to deliver all of the games by December.

Seeing as our community was a great help in getting the game up and running, Rocksteady will be creating a new "Community Challenge Pack” that will be given free to owners of the Batman: Arkham Knight game in January 2016. As thanks to the Steam Community, PC players will have access to the maps for a week before they hit the consoles. Stay tuned for more details on this in the Batman: Arkham Community and Social Channels.


Well, I've already got the PC version of Arkham City (and the Xbox 360 version of Arkham Asylum), but I've never played Origins (or Blackgate), so I guess now I will.

Well, not now, because they haven't shown up in my library yet. But whenever they do. Assuming I still get them even though I got the game for free with a graphics card.

Course, it's a sort of odd choice of rewards given that rather a lot of people who bought Arkham Knight on launch day already owned the previous games in the series. People in the comments section are, as you might expect, less than entirely sanguine about this situation.

I'm guessing, from the wording of the announcement, that these games are going to be automatically added to your library and aren't going to be download codes or what-have-you, so they're likely not re-giftable. (If it turns out that I can give them away, well, my brother gets first crack since I don't think he's played them, but if it turns out he has then I'll post in the Redundant Steam Key Giveaway Thread.)

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Re: Batman (created by Bill Finger and Bob Kane)

Postby TA » Thu Oct 29, 2015 5:59 pm

By all accounts it isn't actually fixed in any real way. They just waited until people mostly forgot about how bad it ran.
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Re: Batman (created by Bill Finger and Bob Kane)

Postby Thad » Thu Oct 29, 2015 6:43 pm

That's an exaggeration; I've seen people saying for the past six weeks that the last patch fixed their issues.

It's still an embarrassment, and it's going to live for years as Exhibit A in How Not to Do a PC Port. (And, not for nothin', the game is a mess even when it's working the way it's supposed to.) But it's not like they've been sitting on their hands for the past four months, either; they've released multiple patches and fixed a lot of the issues people were having with the game. Just not nearly as many as they should have.

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Re: Batman (created by Bill Finger and Bob Kane)

Postby Thad » Tue Dec 01, 2015 8:14 pm

If you bought Arkham Knight, check your Steam library; Arkham Asylum, Arkham Origins, and Blackgate all just showed up in mine.

No codes to redeem; no apparent way to gift the ones I already had. (I suppose I could always mail my Xbox 360 copy of Arkham Asylum to my brother, but shipping it to Hawaii would probably cost more than just buying the game new.)

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Re: Batman (created by Bill Finger and Bob Kane)

Postby Thad » Tue Dec 01, 2015 8:25 pm

On an unrelated note:

Paul Dini Revisits His Traumatic Past With 'Dark Night: A True Batman Story'

In 1993, the co-creator of Batman villain Harley Quinn (being played by Margot Robbie in next summer’s Suicide Squad) and winner of several Emmys for writing Batman animated shows, was walking down La Peer Drive in Los Angeles one evening when two men approached him and mugged him. It was so bad that parts of his head were shattered – his zygomatic arch, for one — while parts of his skull “powdered on impact,” according to the doctors. He needed surgery.

Now, more than two decades later, Dini is revisiting that traumatic event with a highly personal graphic novel. Coming in June 2016, the book isn’t an indie but rather hails from DC’s imprint Vertigo and features the Caped Crusader and his rogues' gallery as a kind of Greek chorus. Titled Dark Night: A True Batman Story, it is one of the most autobiographical books ever published by the company.

“What makes Batman and what makes other superheroes work is the myth that when life is at its lowest, and when you need a hero, a hero swings down and helps you,” Dini says over breakfast in Studio City, suddenly overcome by emotion and choking back tears. “And I didn’t have that."

“Here I am writing these stories for an audience that loves this form, in comics, in animation, but now I was saying to myself, ‘I can’t go on with this. I don’t believe in it anymore. There is no hero for me. Where is my hero?’ "

Dini composes himself and then says, “The answer is: You have to be your own hero.”


...wow. That sounds kind of amazing but a tough read.

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Re: Batman (created by Bill Finger and Bob Kane)

Postby Thad » Sat May 14, 2016 8:30 pm



...wow. I guess Warner must have said "Okay, we'll give you the R rating, but you're going to have to make it in Flash."

Hey, let's take the only part of The Killing Joke that everybody *likes* -- the visuals -- and make them suck.

Conroy and Hamill are great as always, at least.

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