Batman (created by Bill Finger and Bob Kane)

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Thad
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Re: Batman (created by Bill Finger and Bob Kane)

Postby Thad » Tue Jun 23, 2015 11:29 pm

First scene ran really really well; just freakin' gorgeous. Thought for a minute there I was one of the lucky ones.

Haha, nope. Soon as the rain starts it turns into, well, pretty much what I've been dealing with with Witcher 3.

At least with this one EVERYBODY says it's running like sweaty balls. This way I don't have to waste time trying to find a fix; I'll just wait for the damn patch.

Sure glad I didn't pay for it.

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Re: Batman (created by Bill Finger and Bob Kane)

Postby Thad » Wed Jun 24, 2015 11:27 pm

Had a bright idea: hey, if it won't play at 1440p, maybe I could kick the settings down, run it at 1080p and stream it to the TV in my living room.

And it worked great, for about two minutes!

This seems to be the pattern, with both Arkham Knight and Witcher 3. Works great for a couple minutes then starts crapping out. I'm sure that suggests something, but I'm not entirely sure what.

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Re: Batman (created by Bill Finger and Bob Kane)

Postby Mothra » Thu Jun 25, 2015 12:19 am

Thad wrote:Had a bright idea: hey, if it won't play at 1440p, maybe I could kick the settings down, run it at 1080p and stream it to the TV in my living room.

And it worked great, for about two minutes!

This seems to be the pattern, with both Arkham Knight and Witcher 3. Works great for a couple minutes then starts crapping out. I'm sure that suggests something, but I'm not entirely sure what.

Relevant.

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Re: Batman (created by Bill Finger and Bob Kane)

Postby Thad » Thu Jun 25, 2015 12:51 am

Yeah, bullshit; the game's not playable at those "760" specs on my 970.

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Re: Batman (created by Bill Finger and Bob Kane)

Postby Grath » Thu Jun 25, 2015 12:54 am

Thad wrote:Yeah, santorum; the game's not playable at those "760" specs on my 970.

Relevant 2: Electric Boogaloo.

At least it was free, and this reconfirms "never preorder".

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Re: Batman (created by Bill Finger and Bob Kane)

Postby TedBelmont » Thu Jun 25, 2015 6:23 am

THIS POST REMOVED FOR INSUFFICIENT CONTEXT

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Re: Batman (created by Bill Finger and Bob Kane)

Postby Brentai » Thu Jun 25, 2015 11:37 am

The fact that they're so ready to suggest using the newly-implemented and controversial refund feature on such a high profile release makes me wonder if it was added in anticipation of this exact scenario.

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Re: Batman (created by Bill Finger and Bob Kane)

Postby Büge » Thu Jun 25, 2015 7:58 pm

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Re: Batman (created by Bill Finger and Bob Kane)

Postby Thad » Sat Jul 11, 2015 7:11 pm

...so the very first line out of the Arkham Knight's mouth is to address Batman as "old man".

And then everyone is all like "OMG who could this mysterious person possibly be?"

It's frankly a little insulting. Not just to the audience but to the World's Greatest Detective and the genius autodidact information broker who he is talking to on his radio.

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Re: Batman (created by Bill Finger and Bob Kane)

Postby Niku » Sat Jul 11, 2015 10:25 pm

I think there are a fair number of people playing the series who might not be familiar enough with Batman canon to really make the connections until it becomes very explicit at a later point where they're going with things.
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Re: Batman (created by Bill Finger and Bob Kane)

Postby Thad » Sun Jul 12, 2015 1:42 am

Yes, but Batman himself is familiar with Batman canon.

I understand that the majority of the several million people who've picked up the Arkham series of video games may not be well-versed in Batman's history, and as such may miss the beat-you-over-the-head obvious clues about the Knight's identity that are dropped literally from the moment he appears onscreen.

My point is that Batman should maybe be somewhat well-versed in Batman's history, and as such should not miss the beat-you-over-the-head obvious clues about the Knight's identity that are dropped literally from the moment he appears onscreen. And that the same goes for Oracle, Alfred, Tim, and friggin' everybody else who's ever set foot in the Batcave.

And really it's kinda got the same vibe as Star Trek Into Darkness trying to pretend Benedict Cumberbatch's identity was a mystery. Like, anybody who knew who Khan Noonien Singh was already knew Benedict Cumberbatch was playing Khan Noonien Singh, and anybody who didn't know who Khan Noonien Singh was, well, what the fuck is the point of making his identity a secret to people who don't know who that is anyway? Just fucking acknowledge who he is from the get-go and develop the narrative from there; don't build the whole thing around a reveal that is going to be obvious to knowledgeable fans and meaningless to casual ones.

And for God's sake don't write stories where Batman is a fucking idiot. Unless you're writing a comedy. Burt Ward's delivery of "P N Gwen...the Penguin!" is hilarious in the 1966 movie, but that level of brilliant detective work seems a bit out-of-place in this universe.



(Though talking of detective work, I just played through the sequence where Batman reconstructs the car accident using AR, and it was a fucking revelation; I have never seen anything like it in a game before and it...well it may have actually changed the way I look at what games are capable of and what technology might be able to do within the next few years (minus the Bones-style over-the-top crime scene reconstruction, obviously).

...pity it immediately devolved into a goddamn four-dimensional pixel hunt, but aside from that it really was incredibly impressive look-at-the-world-in-a-new-way stuff.)

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Re: Batman (created by Bill Finger and Bob Kane)

Postby Niku » Sun Jul 12, 2015 4:10 pm

I think I can roll with what's in the game largely because as far as Batman is concerned, Jason is dead dead ding dong dead. I'm not sure from what's presented in the game even he would immediately jump to the conclusion that it was all a red herring and now he's suddenly back years later. I agree it would be far more interesting for him to use his detectivin' brain to figure it out pretty quickly and work the narrative from there, but I don't think it's an outright "Batman is an idiot" story either.

I don't know, I have basically no interest in the Red Hood idea to begin with (which came first anyway, Winter Soldier or Red Hood?) so that entire thing was the least interesting part of the game as it was. I'm not sure telling it in different fashion would've made me like it anymore.


Also yeah, that entire car accident sequence was pretty fucking great. I don't think there's a moment like it that's better, mostly because so much of the detective work in the game does boil down to finding the glowy pixel on the screen.
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Re: Batman (created by Bill Finger and Bob Kane)

Postby TA » Sun Jul 12, 2015 4:14 pm

Niku wrote:I think I can roll with what's in the game largely because as far as Batman is concerned, Jason is dead dead ding dong dead. I'm not sure from what's presented in the game even he would immediately jump to the conclusion that it was all a red herring and now he's suddenly back years later. I agree it would be far more interesting for him to use his detectivin' brain to figure it out pretty quickly and work the narrative from there, but I don't think it's an outright "Batman is an idiot" story either.

I don't know, I have basically no interest in the Red Hood idea to begin with (which came first anyway, Winter Soldier or Red Hood?) so that entire thing was the least interesting part of the game as it was. I'm not sure telling it in different fashion would've made me like it anymore.


Also yeah, that entire car accident sequence was pretty fucking great. I don't think there's a moment like it that's better, mostly because so much of the detective work in the game does boil down to finding the glowy pixel on the screen.


The thing about that mystery, though, is depending how you count it, this is either the third or fifth time Jason has done this exact thing. You'd think the World's Greatest Detective might suspect the person for whom what is happening is their exact M.O.
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Re: Batman (created by Bill Finger and Bob Kane)

Postby Niku » Sun Jul 12, 2015 4:42 pm

I feel like the Arkham universe is pretty clearly its own little pocket thing that picks and chooses which stories it wants to tell, though. Whatever history they want this Batman to have had, he now has. I honestly can't remember if there was anything revolving around this in the prior games offhand.
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Re: Batman (created by Bill Finger and Bob Kane)

Postby Thad » Sun Jul 12, 2015 9:31 pm

NOTE: Not spoilertagging anything, because again, I think this is absolutely blisteringly obvious and anyone who doesn't get who the Knight is within seconds of his appearing isn't going to know who he is when it's revealed either.

Niku wrote:I think I can roll with what's in the game largely because as far as Batman is concerned, Jason is dead dead ding dong dead.


One: the previous game had Lazarus pits in it. Batman knows it's possible to return from the dead. He may not think it's likely, but he knows it can happen.

Two: Even if Batman doesn't think it's Jason, he should be spending the whole game saying "This is someone who really wants us to think he's Jason." I suppose that if you really wanted to you could handwave it as Batman being stoic and not wanting to talk about Jason (despite him spending a good big chunk of the game saying "I WON'T LOSE ANYONE ELSE" and, you know, clearly talking about Jason), but somebody else should bring it up if he doesn't.

Niku wrote:I feel like the Arkham universe is pretty clearly its own little pocket thing that picks and chooses which stories it wants to tell, though.


Yeah, that I don't have a problem with; we've already established that the backstory in these games isn't exactly the same as in the comics or whatever other version you want to go with. Because this is a universe where Batman has never previously encountered Azrael, Hush, or Man-Bat.

(As such, the Knight's costume being exactly like the New 52 Red Hood costume but blue and with pointy ears is a clue that we can reasonably expect Batman not to pick up on. However, the Arkham Knight's every line amounting to "LOOK AT ME I'M JASON TODD LOOK AT ME" is something he should at least comment on.)

We can reasonably assume that, in this continuity, he hasn't had any prior reason to believe Jason is still alive. That much I get. But despite his deadpanning, when Oracle asks who the Knight could be, that he's made a lot of enemies, the number who would address him as "old man" and taunt him about how he knows how he thinks is pretty small.

Again, even if he doesn't think it could possibly be Jason, he should be asking why someone would pretend to be Jason.

And if he doesn't say it out loud, Barbara or Alfred or somebody should.

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Re: Batman (created by Bill Finger and Bob Kane)

Postby Thad » Fri Jul 24, 2015 12:07 am

...you know, Two-Face repeatedly announcing that his coin has landed on tails is a really weird detail to get wrong.

It'd be like if the Scarecrow was releasing clouds of sadness toxin. Or Poison Ivy was committing acts of ecoterrorism for the sake of saving the animals. Or Harley Quinn was obsessed with the Penguin.

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Re: Batman (created by Bill Finger and Bob Kane)

Postby Thad » Mon Aug 03, 2015 1:07 am

Thad wrote:One: the previous game had Lazarus pits in it. Batman knows it's possible to return from the dead. He may not think it's likely, but he knows it can happen.


...except it turns out it's even dumber than that, because in this version of the story Batman never even actually saw Jason's body in person, and the only evidence he has that he died is a video sent to him by the Joker.

So the entire plot hinges on nobody -- not Batman, not Alfred, not Robin, not Nightwing, not Oracle -- ever raising the possibility that maybe the Joker was being less than 100% honest and forthright.


This game has the idiot plot to end all idiot plots. It is dumb, dumb, dumb.

I also really don't see ever playing through it a second time unless someone releases a mod that makes all the Batmobile sequences optional. Those last two vehicle fights with the Knight are a slog and I actually cheered when he blew up the Batmobile. The game's greatest sin isn't its plot (though that's probably #2), it's that it made the Batmobile suck.

It's not a bad game. And since I haven't played Arkham Origins I don't know that it's the worst in the series. But it's certainly inferior to the first two in damn near every way (though it gets points for having John Noble in it). It's pretty fun when it does stuff that the first two games already did, it's got a great cast, the graphics are gorgeous (even if the character designs are, as with the rest of the series, fucking terrible -- PUT SOME PANTS ON, IVY), and it's got a few brief flashes of brilliance in the detective sequences. And it's fun to drive around in the Batmobile when you're just using it for transportation instead of combat, chases, or obstacle courses. But all in all, man, this thing would be a disappointment even if the botched PC port hadn't made it a straight-up fiasco.

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Re: Batman (created by Bill Finger and Bob Kane)

Postby Rico » Tue Aug 04, 2015 12:13 am

I've barely put any time into Knight yet but I'm comfortable saying Origins is the better GAME, even though I can't really comment on the story yet. It has some great boss fights and doesn't overload you with mooks like Knight does.

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Re: Batman (created by Bill Finger and Bob Kane)

Postby TA » Tue Aug 04, 2015 12:24 am

Does Batman unambiguously murder quite as much in Origins as he does in Knight?
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Re: Batman (created by Bill Finger and Bob Kane)

Postby Thad » Tue Aug 04, 2015 1:07 am

I don't know how he could possibly unambiguously murder any more people than in Arkham Knight. Even in a Burton movie.

(Then again, he racks up a hell of a lot of people lying on the ground with broken bones or crushed windpipes throughout the course of the entire series, and it's pretty ludicrous to think they all survive. Knight's "That guy who just got flung 50 feet by the Batmobile tearing through the city totally got hit by an electric shock instead of the body of the car, which means he's going to be okay" asks for an even more flagrant suspension of disbelief, but not really that much more.)

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