Perfect Porkchops

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beatbandito
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Re: Perfect Porkchops

Postby beatbandito » Wed May 09, 2018 1:01 pm

zaratustra wrote:
beatbandito wrote:I mean, fuck, Pearl was always and kind of still is just following orders. I'm not really expecting them to fully follow this thread, but it kind of makes Pearl not a Crystal Gem in the philosophical sense that everyone else is.


Well she does say this to the very first gem that comes along trying to re-enslave her - "I didn't fight a thousand-year war for this planet's independence to take orders from the likes of you!" So she has *some* skin in the game. Er, some nacre in the game.

Which is similar to how Yellow Pearl reacts to Peridot trying to order her. Also Perry is basically telling Pearl that since Pearl's master is gone Perry will be her knew one, which doesn't rule out Pearl still feeling like she's following her master.

But also when looking back into that stuff I remembered that Yellow Diamond ordered Y and B pearls to doing backing vocals for her song to Blue Diamond, but there's pretty much a whole song about Peridot learning what music is on Earth, so I'm back to not going quite as hard in the theories.

Ultimately I expect the next episode to be the standard third act fight between the main characters, possibly followed by a steven bomb's worth of hurt feelings before something happens that brings them all back together in time for the season finale.


Really the best thing happening for this show right now is not knowing how episodes are going to be airing and in what batches, so it's a little bit harder than the classic Law & Order "we're still on the order part at 40 minutes, is this guy going to kill himself or get let off by a corrupt system?"
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Re: Perfect Porkchops

Postby Niku » Wed May 09, 2018 5:53 pm

Supposedly there are some spoilers out there potentially dealing with the series finale, so I feel like this might be it -- the final countdown. (It's also why I clarified I was talking about the most recent episode, and everyone else has been too.) Granted, that could mean this year, or next year, orrr ..
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Re: Perfect Porkchops

Postby zaratustra » Wed May 09, 2018 6:34 pm


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Re: Perfect Porkchops

Postby Newbie » Wed May 09, 2018 8:38 pm

Niku wrote:Supposedly there are some spoilers out there potentially dealing with the series finale, so I feel like this might be it -- the final countdown. (It's also why I clarified I was talking about the most recent episode, and everyone else has been too.) Granted, that could mean this year, or next year, orrr ..


I've seen 'em, and I'm skeptical.

I think some people are arguing that this stuff is final endgame material because they've invested too much faith in a specific potential ordering of expected future events, and this leak would appear to undermine that, if the events it depicts take place prior to the series finale. But it's ambiguous: we may not be seeing what we think we're seeing. And even if we are, this series could simply take a different shape than the one some fans were expecting.

Personally, I think it's likely that the leaks are from the beginning of season 8, with the series finale at the end of that season, because the Golden Ratio suggests that's how many episodes we'd need for A Single Pale Rose to be the major climax of the series.
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Re: Perfect Porkchops

Postby TA » Sat May 12, 2018 2:34 am

I thought they'd been saying that the fifth season would be the final one.
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Re: Perfect Porkchops

Postby beatbandito » Tue Jul 03, 2018 3:33 pm

I haven't seen any new episodes yet, but apparently Lars is Filipino and it is the most important reveal of the series.
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Re: Perfect Porkchops

Postby Newbie » Sat Jul 07, 2018 2:15 am

There was an episode tonight.

Reunited.

If you haven't seen it, you need to fucking catch up immediately. This is the best, gayest, craziest, most arc-fulfilling episode of Steven Universe to exist. You liked "The Return"? Okay, double or triple that. The status quo has been—excuse the pun—shattered.
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Re: Perfect Porkchops

Postby Niku » Sat Jul 07, 2018 10:13 am

Did I hear right that there has been a sixth season confirmed after this season?

Because hooooooooooooooly.
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Re: Perfect Porkchops

Postby beatbandito » Sat Jul 07, 2018 11:32 am

Apparently the Filipino thing was from a cake he made in Lars and the Cool Kids. What a terrible article.

Anyway Reunited felt so good. After letting this bomb wash over me the only thing that sticks out as an annoyance is the cluster completely removing itself as an issue. I understand that Steven's influence calmed it down, but I thought the original point was that the sheer mass of it would destroy the core when it formed, never mind the constant hell any of the shards that are a part of it experience. But evidently it ends up being about the size of a large boat, is totally together and united in its motivations, distracts yellow for as long as the plot needs then goes right back to sleep. And a little bit of "no, Bismuth, I'm not the gem that didn't totally follow your plan to destroy the diamond, I'm the diamond you wanted to destroy. Anyway let me sit riiight next to this lava with you while you digest that".

But otherwise it got a lot of plot done while keeping character motivations and situations pretty pure. Also bonus points for the best reaction shot of the bomb going to the Maheswarans during the ceremony.
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Re: Perfect Porkchops

Postby beatbandito » Sun Jul 22, 2018 7:58 pm

pink's ship has an ass
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Re: Perfect Porkchops

Postby Newbie » Mon Jul 23, 2018 4:03 am

Now that a bunch of long-foreshadowed truths are finally coming out, it seems terribly fitting that we should now find a bunch more mysteries heaped upon us.Namely, what the FUCK is up with WP/WD? Why does WP's gem placement imply she should have belonged to PD, and why vice versa?

I did like the analysis I read on MetaFilter that concludes that the Diamonds are basically a WASPy family: Yellow, the longsuffering and dutiful first child, Blue, the middle child who's emotional and overshadowed by her elder, Pink, the rebellious youngest child calls out the family for being hypocrites, and White, the mother-knows-best matriarch who refuses to engage with the behavior she disapproves of and is the perfect embodiment of the concept of rigidity. Steven Universe is a coming out story.
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Re: Perfect Porkchops

Postby beatbandito » Tue Jan 22, 2019 11:52 pm

I can't believe the series ends with Steven fucking all his moms.
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Re: Perfect Porkchops

Postby Mothra » Wed Jan 23, 2019 1:16 am

That finale was absolutely wonderful.

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Re: Perfect Porkchops

Postby beatbandito » Wed Jan 23, 2019 2:25 pm

Okay, I want to start actually laying out my thoughts about the series. The ultimate story being told was not really what I wanted or hoped to get out of the series, but even considering that I feel the total number of messages and themes really get jumbled at the end when trying to tie a bow around everything. I tend to loop around myself when I try to lay everything out at once, so one point at a time:

Personal accountability is nonexistent. My favorite single episode is still Cat Fingers, which actually works well for this point also, but too late because my example is already from when I commit myself to the series story, Mirror Gem / Ocean Gem. Lapis isn't really developed enough that I can say I like her as a character yet, but I loved her characteristics, and her story. She wasn't corrupted or blinded by rage or vengeance, and she seemed to really like Steven, not just because he set her free and healed her. But she absolutely had reason to hate the crystal gems. This was the first (and really only) time that gray morality comes up. She knows that Steven likes the gems, and she doesn't say they're evil, that he's sided with the enemy, but that they're not good people and shouldn't be trusted, which is TOTALLY TRUE. Even with the little background knowledge we had at this point we knew that the crystal gems were responsible for war and genocide. Lapis was an example of the unfortunate consequences of the gems' actions that they had to face, but... never do. Once we learn more about homeworld and the early earth colony it's just assumed that their actions are justifiable because the other option was continued oppression of gems and total oppression of earth, plus they're not cracking the corrupted gems, even though they have no means to actually undo anything. We go on to learn that the entire reason behind the war was basically so that pink diamond could have fun. Instead of choosing to stand up to her sisters/mother/whatevers directly she plays around and protects herself. Up to Steven's birth it's still clear from her personality that she's still just playing around, excited and curious to see the consequences of her actions. This never coming up again was a pretty crushing blow to my expectations of the series. Cut forward to the final bomb and Steven is basically just emo jesus. The gems had no choice but to rebel because they were oppressed by the diamonds, blue and yellow had no choice but to oppress because they were pressured by white, white had enforce the system because of... societal expectations? Feel bad about what you've done, but don't think too hard about why you've done it, because if it's really bad, Steven will be there soon enough to forgive you and wash away those sins.

If you hated all those run on sentences, just wait until the next post about why I think Pink Diamond's story essentially ends like this:

Guess you can't embed youtube timestamps
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Re: Perfect Porkchops

Postby Newbie » Thu Jan 24, 2019 11:32 am

It's a good thing we've got another season and a movie, because I agree that some folks are certainly not off the hook for what they've done. I am going to wait to see whether and how the extant crimes against life are to be addressed before I pass judgment, though.
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Re: Perfect Porkchops

Postby beatbandito » Thu Jan 24, 2019 1:42 pm

Welcome to part 2 of my TED talk on a children's cartoon: Rose Quartz Was A Bad Mother/Sister/Lover/Friend Because The Show Forgot To Make Her A Good One.

I'm not spoiler tagging this time since it's entire series spoilers, but it goes through the finale.

We're first introduced to Rose Quartz directly in Lion 3: Straight to Video, and it's fucking heartbreaking. But really, we've already been introduced to Rose. Not as a real... person(I honestly don't even really want to know if there's like a 'furson' alternate for gems, person is gempersons, human is meatpersons going forward) but as a legend, a mythos, really, from the way her and her actions are related by the rest of the crystal gems. Before viewers, or Steven, get a chance to be wooed by her own words Rose is established as a great figure owed respect. Of course the video was beautiful, everyone cried during that episode, but, it's a video of a mother saying she loves her future son. In the context of the series at that point it was more about Steven finding his own independent value through Rose, something that we've since established was a good step for his growth, but not what he needed ("I'm me... I've always been me" is some New Home Mirror shit). The issue is, it feels at the end like this is we're supposed to see Rose the way the gems and Steven did up to and including the video, and ignore everything we learn after.

Let's take it from the chronological top (bottom?). Long before any of the original show's events Pink had the pebbles and the worm thing from Change Your Mind. Based on their reactions to her, it's safe to say that she did have a level of empathy for other living things you don't see much of in the other diamonds. This seems to be meant to imply an altruism or sympathy and care that we see in Steven, but Pink's relationships are never seen to go that far. In a nebulous time somewhere presumably prior to the earth colony Pink is in a relationship with her Pearl. This isn't explicitly stated, but we see them dancing around and being playful in a way that isn't seen between other diamonds and their pearls, and we know that White diamond takes control of pink pearl and leaves her physical form (representation of a gem's personality, not the actual pearl) cracked. Next we see Pink is on earth, taking an interest in humans and other living things. The zoo was originally a bigger part of my argument, but looking back that could have been less Pink's zoo in that it's the zoo she made and more the zoo the other diamonds made for her like "here, you like green plants, you like walking meat, perfect, right?". Regardless, Pink's initial interest in earth is clearly curiosity, exploring a new world and new ideas. It's also implied she fucked cavemen.

Rose Quartz was invented on a whim, but now the gemsona (damnit I said I wasn't doing that, but it works here) Pink used to explore freely becomes more than she was ever intended to be, becoming a kind of folk legend. Pink leaned into this and started putting on flashy productions to enthrall what were essentially all still her court (I don't know how the diamond color authority works on colonies, but based on what we hear about Yellow's colonies, I'm considering any gem on earth to be part of Pink's court prior to the war). Another tangent that's not super important to this point, but in general I think could be is that Pearl is 'The Rogue Pearl' not 'Pink's Rogue Pearl' or anything like that, Pink might have a thing for Pearls, or just REALLY had a thing for her Pink pearl she wasn't over yet. I don't think Pearl was assigned to Pink as much as ended up with her. Now, full of their own antics and with trouble brewing from homeworld, Pearl is still hoping to end these games, and Pink might have, if it weren't for Garnet. Garnet is actually probably the most important part of the Crystal Gems, the earth rebellion, and Rose Quartz's continued existence. We know from the other diamonds that Pink has had issues with the way things are run, and this may just be that's it's being told from the perspective of older sisters, but the complaints prior to earth were more selfish. Pink had her own way of things, but she didn't seem to be trying to change the way things were, she just wanted more recognition and responsibility. Ultimately so the things she did would be more recognized, but still more about having issues with her standing in the world than the world itself. My belief that most of Pink's actions are guided by a selfish curiosity are cemented when she decides to get rid of Pink Diamond forever. Pink's decision in A Single Pale Rose is selfish, I can't read the situation any other way. When presented with an ultimatum to step up as a diamond and use her authority to stand up for herself, she doubted herself and didn't want to risk a return to the way things had been. She liked being Rose Quartz more than Pink Diamond, and on another whim, decided she wouldn't go back.

So Pink starts a war to try and hold on to what she made on earth. She may have legitimately believed that she would lose everything if she went back to being Pink and defended herself and her actions, but it wasn't an altruistic defense of the culture Rose represented, she was sacrificing the lives of those that believed in her cause to protect earth. We know the offcolors exist on homeworld, and they were so unaware of what earth's independence meant that they were offended by Garnet's compliments. This could come down to chastising what's supposed to be a relatively young and naive person for making the wrong choice, but it goes on. The corruption happens and time moves forward. Again we're limited in our understanding of Rose's intentions as they come to us through the rest of the crystal gems, but all we know is that Rose poofed and bubbled any corrupted gems she could find, even though she wasn't able to do anything to restore them. We hear from Garnet and Pearl that Rose was filed with sorrow and love for all of them and that's all well and good, I do think she had empathy, but we know the perspectives of the people telling us these stories are colored a specific way. I'm sure there's some existing phrase that would work particularly well about how the way the others view Rose's actions and seeing them almost distorted as through Glasses that I'm not thinking of. What we know for hard fact is that Rose was inserting herself into human affairs major and minor, and removing homeworld artifacts that were considered too dangerous for the humans. She was still very much interested in earth and humans, with no direct mention of fusion, offcolorness or anything that it seemed to represent to the crystal gems and her other followers. We also hear from Pearl that she fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuucks.

Most of the previous paragraph covered the time between the homeworld occupation and Rose meeting Greg, but is relayed in or after Story for Steven, where Greg meets Rose for the first time. The crystal gems are still collecting artifacts, but they don't seem to have been as active in direct human intervention for a while until Greg. Pearl and Greg both agree that he's nothing special. We all love Greg and wish he was our dad, but really, from what we see this is true. Rose has a lot of fun with Greg, but she was also having fun with the natives back before the war, with others since as we've heard from Pearl and Pearl herself. We're never given a moment where this is realized though, it just seems to have been implied by other people's feelings for Rose, that she must have shared the love and awe they felt towards her. Something that Pearl learns many time through the series wasn't necessarily true. The completely truthful and pure connection Pearl felt for Rose certainly wasn't shared, the exact extent can only be assumed. But based off everything we've seen of Pink / Rose's actions up to that point, Steven feels like just another whim. Now, there's no way to know if Rose knew she was giving up her self in a very real way to create Steven, or even what those consequences really meant. Consequences have never been her concern, only an interest. Something to observe in wonder. And so, as she feels she's seen all earth has to offer and isn't ready to return to homeworld yet, Rose goes on another adventure. And I do think she had a real excitement, and even love for what she was creating. But I do not believe any of the evidence we've been given shows that she chose to give herself up out of a true love for Greg, or fear of homeworld, or anything that implies there was a specific reason that here and now was the chance for this to happen. It was just another whim, another chance to see something new.

So we're left with one video of Rose saying she loves Steven and what he'll represent, backed up by the crystal gems knowing Rose and knowing that her love was true and pure. Then we get 4 seasons of the crystal gems learning they didn't really know Rose at even the most basic levels, and we see the real choices Rose was making in the time, and all of them seem to be for the sake of novelty. But still the show is written and acted out like that first bit wasn't supposed to be recontextualized in the least by the rest of it.

so tl/dr, I think Rose created Steven with this mindset
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Re: Perfect Porkchops

Postby beatbandito » Thu Jan 24, 2019 1:45 pm

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I don't know what the movie will bring, but all I've heard about the next season is that it was implied from a cartoon network announcement that there would be "more to come" before they announced the movie. With all the shoehorning they did in that last episode though, I can't imagine what an entire extra season would even start to cover that's on topic with the themes of the show up to that point. Which I may bring up more directly in part 3, "life is difficult and nuanced, but not really it's all about parental acceptance", if I manage to keep thinking about this that long.
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Re: Perfect Porkchops

Postby zaratustra » Thu Jan 24, 2019 6:59 pm

beat I like how you describe events set possibly thousands of years apart as "a sequence of whims"

i mean, Rose has been Rose for *checks wiki* five thousand years

if she literally went up and said, i'm extremely bored of being me i would like to be literally anything else please

it would still be perfectly understandable

most gems don't get that sort of ennui because, in addition to being immortal and frozen in a hierarchy, they're frankly all kinda autistic

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Re: Perfect Porkchops

Postby beatbandito » Thu Jan 24, 2019 7:15 pm

Don't even get me started on time in this universe. Nevermind how it passes for beings that live for eons but react at human speed, but Pearl in Space Race says they're not going anywhere near homeworld, it'll just be a quick trip of about 50 years. Lapis flies home with water wings in like a week, it takes Lars like a year, and diamond ships jump back and forth in hours or even minutes.

While I'm not getting started on that, Lapis in The Message says that homeworld is "so advanced I can't even keep up with it". There are certainly tall buildings, but otherwise the technology seems almost identical and the rest of the diamond fleet is still perfectly compatible with Pink's legs. And no one even mentions that it got megaton punched and White being particularly insane.
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Re: Perfect Porkchops

Postby beatbandito » Thu Jan 24, 2019 8:19 pm

don't trust anything I post here

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