Friday's Top Ten Favorite VG

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nosimpleway
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Re: Friday's Top Ten Favorite VG

Postby nosimpleway » Thu Jun 15, 2017 8:03 pm

I've said preeeeeeetttttty much everything I have to say on the topic, except people keep finding new shit in Undertale.

Did you know that after you walk one of the echo flowers in Waterfall, you can turn around and talk to it again to find that Flowey left you a message?

Did you know that if you empty the water cooler in Hotland and come back during the interactive pacifist ending, there's a tree sapling that's sprouted there?

Did you know that in the quiz show section, when Mettaton is talking about how Alphys names programming variables after her secret crush, there's a line of commented-out code that amounts to "you thought I'd put a secret message here, but I didn't, ha ha"?

Undertale is the game that keeps on giving.

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Bal
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Re: Friday's Top Ten Favorite VG

Postby Bal » Thu Jun 15, 2017 10:47 pm

The fanbase isn't ALL bad.


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MarsDragon
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Re: Friday's Top Ten Favorite VG

Postby MarsDragon » Thu Jun 15, 2017 10:58 pm

I'm too much of a soulless robot to enjoy Undertale, but maybe I'll try again in five to ten years when I've forgotten the fanbase.

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Joxam
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Re: Friday's Top Ten Favorite VG

Postby Joxam » Thu Jun 15, 2017 11:23 pm

The fanbase was really that bad? The only thing I remember thinking negatively about the fans of Undertale was that they were the type of fucking spoiler babies that when asked about the game would just be like, "YOU have to EXPERIENCE it" instead of telling me shit that I specifically asked them about.
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Newbie
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Re: Friday's Top Ten Favorite VG

Postby Newbie » Fri Jun 16, 2017 1:50 am

Undertale's fans have kind of the same problem Steven Universe fans have, except moreso, which is that it's not enough for them to share their favorite media with you; they have to make sure you're experiencing it and getting it the way that they do now, which means you can't be allowed to miss anything, you have to do things in the right order, you have to know what the popular fan theories are, and they need to just sort of micromanage your interest in and exposure to the thing in question. It's exhausting, and it's the one part of reading liveblogs/watching let's plays that I kind of hate, because all the leading questions and knowing allusions and links to unnecessary fanwankery and inadvertent spoilers is the worst.
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beatbandito
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Re: Friday's Top Ten Favorite VG

Postby beatbandito » Fri Jun 16, 2017 5:20 am

Plus they want like everyone to fuck.
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Defenestration
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Re: Friday's Top Ten Favorite VG

Postby Defenestration » Fri Jun 16, 2017 5:44 am

Now, I've wanted to talk about this for a long time. I've mentioned it to some of you before. The whole bit about "The fanbase ruined this game/show/whatever for me"; This is something I cannot parse.

Perhaps this is just my conditioning as a Sonic Fan, but why would random fucking jackoffs have any bearing what so fucking ever upon the work of the original artist? They do not, cannot (outside of perhaps multiplayer games) affect the end result of the experience by definition. To me, the statement is as non-nonsensical as "I would have liked that philly cheese steak I ate at home, but the stupid poster hanging over my desk at work last week ruined it."

This has made me wonder ever since people have first mentioned to me that they would have liked One Piece if not for the fanbase. ...So you DO like it and you're hating it for an arbitrary reason? The western fanbase can't even vote in the character polls, the effect they have on the work can be measured in negatives. If I went to a museum and viewed Starry Night in a crowd of people talking about how van Gogh was a stupid cuck, the human waste around me does not change the impact, vision, or message of the original piece.
Una salus victis nullam sperare salutem

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sei
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Re: Friday's Top Ten Favorite VG

Postby sei » Fri Jun 16, 2017 7:08 am

Imagine that every few times you ate chocolate, someone slammed your dick in a car door.

How would you feel about chocolate?

Now extend that to media.
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Friday
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Re: Friday's Top Ten Favorite VG

Postby Friday » Fri Jun 16, 2017 8:29 am

Defen, I get where you're coming from and I semi-agree: At least I personally am (almost always) able to tune out the fans whenever I partake of something.

But I can't deny that exposure to that kind of thing would turn most people off. Humans are social animals, we care about the opinions of others. If everyone around you said -piece of art- was shit, you'd be more likely to skip it, or dislike it if you experienced it. Not -everyone- is like that, but most are. Your example of Starry Night is misleading, because we all associate Starry Night with "masterpiece". Instead, imagine you went to a showing of some new piece of art and everyone was talking about how shit it and it's painter was. You would be literally encouraged by your fucking DNA to agree, because humans conform.

Not everyone is like that, of course, but everyone is to a small degree at least. I've enjoyed movies that RT thinks are shit, I've hated movies that RT gives 90%+ scores to, but I also tend to skip movies that score low and go see movies that score high.

Newbie sums it up well. The Undertale fanbase is both frothing AND pedantic about their beloved video game. There's no quicker way to make other people want to throw up.

I mean, in the end, you're not wrong. It's very frustrating to me when people base their opinions on a work by how popular it is. Nobody likes hipsters and for good reason. Disliking Undertale simply because it was popular/the fanbase is stupid is a bad reason to dislike Undertale, full stop. But I cannot deny that it's also an understandable one.

***************

Esper brought up ANOTHER annoying thing about Undertale, which is the backlash circlejerk. The circlejerk (which is what we've been discussing) has, for the most part, as of now fucked off to their own little corner of the internet where they can write fanfics about Papyrus/Gaster and draw bad furry porn of Toriel.

The Anti-circlejerk, however, still shows up in almost every Undertale related video, complaining about the fans of the game (who aren't even present in the comments, or if they are, are mundane.) It's a recognizable phenomenon, of course, when people complaining about people doing X actually are more prevalent and annoying than the people doing X. Probably the most common sighting of that phenomenon is people complaining how fucked up fem-nazis are, for example. They're not wrong, they're just actually more tedious and irritating than the actual fem-nazis.

Anyway.

My stance on this issue has already been stated: The fanbase/circlejerk/anti-circlejerk is awful, but try not to let that ruin the art for you. And if you play Undertale and don't like it, that's fine. It's not for everyone. Or even if you decide you wouldn't like it and don't even bother playing it, that's also fine, because again, you're the best barometer of your own taste. Trying to force feed chocolate to a person who doesn't like chocolate is never going to make anyone happy.
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Friday
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Re: Friday's Top Ten Favorite VG

Postby Friday » Fri Jun 16, 2017 8:38 am

0. Popful Mail

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Mail, from Popful Mail!

Thanks for voting everyone!
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Niku
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Re: Friday's Top Ten Favorite VG

Postby Niku » Fri Jun 16, 2017 9:36 am

As someone who has liked most of what Jhonen Vasquez makes, The Nightmare Before Christmas, Steven Universe, various popular anniemays, and Undertale I sometimes have to wonder if I'm not everything I hate about all of those fandoms sometimes.

No, no. It's the children who are wrong.

I used to work at a three-screen independent / arthouse film theater in a rich area of town (literally right next to Lewis Black's End of the Universe) and I made it a point to see every movie that I REALLY wanted to see in the overnight test screening before opening night. While sometimes a movie's allure would hold after opening weekend and I'd get around to it at some point, for the most part our entitled elderly customer base would manage to turn me off from wanting to see anything that got popular that hadn't necessarily been on my radar before. It definitely wasn't rational, but it was a very real thing that happened consistently.

Also Undertale coming to PS4/Vita (with one of the best trailers of e3:
)

kinda makes me want to go back and re-experience the game another time. Even with the emotional and story beats already well known, I honestly think the gameplay and battle system is just fucking fun and would love to see someone rip off and expound on it sometime. It's probably never going to happen with the same level of care to CONSTANTLY mixing up what you're doing, but it's up there with the Mario and Luigi RPGs for my favorite RPG battle system.
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Friday
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Re: Friday's Top Ten Favorite VG

Postby Friday » Fri Jun 16, 2017 10:08 am

Yeah, the bullet hell thing was really inspired. It could easily have gotten tiresome but you were never in any particular encounter group area for long enough to get bored of any particular attack.

The random encounters were good, but the system allowed bossfights to be really spectacular, with each having some sort of new gimmick to learn and master. Each bossfight started out slow to teach you the gimmick, but by the end of the fight was really hammering you with complicated shit.

And Niku, you're nothing like the typical fanboi we've been discussing. I love Invader Zim just as much as anyone who shops at Hot Topic, but guess what, I don't shop at Hot Topic.
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Thad
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Re: Friday's Top Ten Favorite VG

Postby Thad » Fri Jun 16, 2017 7:44 pm

I should probably finish Undertale one of these days. I've somehow managed to avoid fandom and spoilers up to this point. (I have only skimmed the last few posts.)

I do have some experience with terrible, terrible fandom, though. (I managed to get out of Sonic fandom around...'97? '98? At any rate, it was a long enough time ago that there was still only one website on the entire internet that had Sonic porn.) They can be a drag, and sometimes they can make it hard to remember why a thing was good in the first place (Holy Grail, Borat, whatever).

In the worst case, somebody can permanently associate something you like with something you don't. I'm the first guy to scoff when somebody accuses Michael Bay of ruining Transformers or Girls with Cooties of ruining Ghostbusters, but thanks to Kevin Smith, I'll never be able to read Batman: Year One again without thinking "Batman just pissed himself."

I still think Clerks was good, though.

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Thad
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Re: Friday's Top Ten Favorite VG

Postby Thad » Fri Jun 16, 2017 7:47 pm

But my point is, should I play Popful Mail?

I just got my Genesis set back up.

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Friday
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Re: Friday's Top Ten Favorite VG

Postby Friday » Fri Jun 16, 2017 7:54 pm

i don't know i've never played it
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Büge
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Re: Friday's Top Ten Favorite VG

Postby Büge » Fri Jun 16, 2017 8:08 pm

Thad wrote:I should probably finish Undertale one of these days. I've somehow managed to avoid fandom and spoilers up to this point. (I have only skimmed the last few posts.)


Hey, me too. We should start a club.

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Brentai
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Re: Friday's Top Ten Favorite VG

Postby Brentai » Fri Jun 16, 2017 8:14 pm

(Popful Mail is actually kind of boring.)

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nosimpleway
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Re: Friday's Top Ten Favorite VG

Postby nosimpleway » Fri Jun 16, 2017 9:10 pm

Newbie wrote:It's exhausting, and it's the one part of reading liveblogs/watching let's plays that I kind of hate, because all the leading questions and knowing allusions and links to unnecessary fanwankery and inadvertent spoilers is the worst.

sheesh just @ me next time

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Friday
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Re: Friday's Top Ten Favorite VG

Postby Friday » Fri Jun 16, 2017 9:18 pm

To those of you who are skimming my posts to avoid spoilers:

I tried to leave any out in my reviews, except in Undertale, which I mark. (Not spoiler tags, just a warning and then a space.)

I can't promise they're ENTIRELY free of spoilers, but I think if there are any, they're pretty minor.

EDIT: re-reading my posts, My review of Silent Hill 2 has the worst spoilers, so if you're concerned, skip that one. (And the part marked spoilers in the Undertale post.)
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Newbie
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Re: Friday's Top Ten Favorite VG

Postby Newbie » Fri Jun 16, 2017 10:28 pm

nosimpleway wrote:
Newbie wrote:It's exhausting, and it's the one part of reading liveblogs/watching let's plays that I kind of hate, because all the leading questions and knowing allusions and links to unnecessary fanwankery and inadvertent spoilers is the worst.

sheesh just @ me next time


When you quote it like that, I see that I've been ambiguous. As the LPer, it's your JOB to do that stuff. That's fine! What's NOT fine is when your audience keeps interrupting you to shout YOU MISSED SOMETHING GO BACK GO BACK PLAY IT RIGHT ETC
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