Blizzard Presents:Pixar's Monday Night Fortress [Overwatch]
- Mongrel
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Re: Blizzard Presents:Pixar's Monday Night Fortress [Overwatch]
Ice Wall is the best possible way to be an own-team-trolling dickbag.
Re: Blizzard Presents:Pixar's Monday Night Fortress [Overwatch]
Open beta extended until 10 AM Pacific on Tuesday.
- Mongrel
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Re: Blizzard Presents:Pixar's Monday Night Fortress [Overwatch]
This is how you Toblerone, skrubs!
Re: Blizzard Presents:Pixar's Monday Night Fortress [Overwatch]
The part with three Meis dousing Reaper made me laugh out loud.
Re: Blizzard Presents:Pixar's Monday Night Fortress [Overwatch]
Mongrel wrote:
Completely correct. Bastion is not that hard to kill, in all actuality.
Una salus victis nullam sperare salutem
Re: Blizzard Presents:Pixar's Monday Night Fortress [Overwatch]
It's like how (and this is hard to remember because it was so long ago and sounds so idiotically ludicrous now) people used to rage about Engy Sentries in TF2. Granted, back then the map design was pretty favorable for sentry choke points. Overwatch does not have that problem, so literally people raging about Bastion are just fucking bad.
Imagine a player who thinks you are supposed to be able to take down a level 3 sentry, from the front, by yourself, as the scout. These are the types of players we are talking about. That is not an exaggeration. They exist in droves.
Imagine a player who thinks you are supposed to be able to take down a level 3 sentry, from the front, by yourself, as the scout. These are the types of players we are talking about. That is not an exaggeration. They exist in droves.
Re: Blizzard Presents:Pixar's Monday Night Fortress [Overwatch]
Yeah but it's a level 3 sentry that can move, create itself instantly, and self-heal. Also it has no range limit, and can kill anything it fires at within a second.
Re: Blizzard Presents:Pixar's Monday Night Fortress [Overwatch]
There is distance falloff. That's why snipers are such a good counter. You can shoot him quick enough that the healing is canceled. Even if the Bastion is smart enough to flee, it means you just left him open for anyone else on your team to wipe him out in Recon mode.
Una salus victis nullam sperare salutem
- Mongrel
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Re: Blizzard Presents:Pixar's Monday Night Fortress [Overwatch]
I find one of the biggest problems enabling Bastions is that Pharah is not as hard a counter as you might think because rocket travel time means that if you're waaay far back and trying to rocket-snipe (which for the non-twitch-year-olds probably means you're moving a little less so that you can actually aim), she can get shot up pretty bad before rockets start to Bastion is forced to event think about moving. It's also pretty funny that Blizzard does NOT suggest the nominal "demoman", Junkrat (he CAN counter Bastion but it's terrain-dependent).
Also, Genji is a great counter to bastion (bullet shield is great for this), but Genji has a higher skill floor/ceiling compared to most of the characters (so does another of the suggested counters, Hanzo) so most Genji players are terrrrrrrrible.
I started to view those teams with two or three Genjis on them like those TF2 teams which were half snipers.
Basically, Bastion's first-line counters have high skill requirements (though not so much Widowmaker) and other characters you'd *think* were counters (Pharah, Junkrat) actually aren't so good at it.
Solo Bastions doesn't annoy me much though. If you can get some focused damage on him, he crumbles - transforming to move still leaves him on the same spot for a few more seconds and his hitbox gets even bigger. His healing really only works to save himself on downtime since it can't outpace focused damage from even most single characters and you can catch him on his reload easy if don't have to cross totally open terrain to get close.
Interestingly, two of the better moves to use on a Bastion are to hook him with Roadhog or Charge him with Reinhardt, both of which force-transform Bastion back into recon mode, which COMPLETELY fucks Bastion and almost always just kills him. I think once more people realize those two tricks, things might improve a bit WRT pubbies dying to Bastions. I have started to preferentially target Roadhogs and Reinhardts as Bastion, just to try and avoid that.
Also, Genji is a great counter to bastion (bullet shield is great for this), but Genji has a higher skill floor/ceiling compared to most of the characters (so does another of the suggested counters, Hanzo) so most Genji players are terrrrrrrrible.
I started to view those teams with two or three Genjis on them like those TF2 teams which were half snipers.
Basically, Bastion's first-line counters have high skill requirements (though not so much Widowmaker) and other characters you'd *think* were counters (Pharah, Junkrat) actually aren't so good at it.
Solo Bastions doesn't annoy me much though. If you can get some focused damage on him, he crumbles - transforming to move still leaves him on the same spot for a few more seconds and his hitbox gets even bigger. His healing really only works to save himself on downtime since it can't outpace focused damage from even most single characters and you can catch him on his reload easy if don't have to cross totally open terrain to get close.
Interestingly, two of the better moves to use on a Bastion are to hook him with Roadhog or Charge him with Reinhardt, both of which force-transform Bastion back into recon mode, which COMPLETELY fucks Bastion and almost always just kills him. I think once more people realize those two tricks, things might improve a bit WRT pubbies dying to Bastions. I have started to preferentially target Roadhogs and Reinhardts as Bastion, just to try and avoid that.
Re: Blizzard Presents:Pixar's Monday Night Fortress [Overwatch]
In my narrow experience I think the issue is that any damn idiot can perform pretty well as Bastion, but you need to be at least competent to counter him at all. He's by no means overpowered, but he's just way too easy to step into compared to how hard he can be to deal with. I think maybe bringing down his accuracy a bit would deal with most of the problems. It's just a bit too simple to park your ass at the end of the map and pick people off all day.
- Mongrel
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Re: Blizzard Presents:Pixar's Monday Night Fortress [Overwatch]
It's it's true that unlike Toblerone's pop-gun (let alone Symmetra's close-range-only stub turrets), Bastion IS the only sentry with effective range equal to any of his counters.
Re: Blizzard Presents:Pixar's Monday Night Fortress [Overwatch]
If you're using Pharah you really want to counter a Bastion with a concussive blast instead of rocket sniping, which also gets around the Reinhardt problem.
Re: Blizzard Presents:Pixar's Monday Night Fortress [Overwatch]
I mean I basically exclusively play McCree and even he is fine with bastion. Just fan, dip, fan and the fucker is dead. I don't see the point of the bastion hate.
Re: Blizzard Presents:Pixar's Monday Night Fortress [Overwatch]
The problem with Bastion is not how easily you can kill him, it's how easily he can kill everyone.
That is McCree's answer to everything. Having put in a good amount of time I feel that McCree is actually more bullshit than Bastion. You can do something about Bastion, but a McCree ambush can kill fucking Roadhog before he can retaliate and there's not a god damned thing you can do to stop it. I don't know why they thought putting a long stun on a character with the best burst DPS in the game was a good idea, but it was not. In fact, long stuns in general are a fucking terrible idea in FPS and I have no idea why they did that.
Joxam wrote:I mean I basically exclusively play McCree and even he is fine with bastion. Just fan, dip, fan and the fucker is dead. I don't see the point of the bastion hate.
That is McCree's answer to everything. Having put in a good amount of time I feel that McCree is actually more bullshit than Bastion. You can do something about Bastion, but a McCree ambush can kill fucking Roadhog before he can retaliate and there's not a god damned thing you can do to stop it. I don't know why they thought putting a long stun on a character with the best burst DPS in the game was a good idea, but it was not. In fact, long stuns in general are a fucking terrible idea in FPS and I have no idea why they did that.
Re: Blizzard Presents:Pixar's Monday Night Fortress [Overwatch]
EH, i was just being a sarcastic piece of shut but if I'm honest I think McCree's biggest counter is he literally walks slower than the character with one leg and if you're using the roll for anything other than reloading (re-positioning, escape) you're doing it wrong.
Re: Blizzard Presents:Pixar's Monday Night Fortress [Overwatch]
From the company that brought you vanilla rogues...Bal wrote:I don't know why they thought putting a long stun on a character with the best burst DPS in the game was a good idea
- beatbandito
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Re: Blizzard Presents:Pixar's Monday Night Fortress [Overwatch]
The best counter to McCree is Reinhardt's stomach as he's charging towards a real threat.
The reality is that this is a game where knowing counters and when to take advantage of them is the issue, and most of us are still, and will always, be playing PuGs. So it's not a matter of if something is OP, it's a matter of being the only one on your team actually trying to counter most times.
The reality is that this is a game where knowing counters and when to take advantage of them is the issue, and most of us are still, and will always, be playing PuGs. So it's not a matter of if something is OP, it's a matter of being the only one on your team actually trying to counter most times.
- Brantly B.
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Re: Blizzard Presents:Pixar's Monday Night Fortress [Overwatch]
That's where Overwatch starts to lose its flavor for me: too many hard counters. Coming from TF2 where an Engineer can deal with a Spy or a Demoman, or a Medic can fight off a Scout if he's skilled enough, it gets dispiriting in this game to be, say, run down by Winston while playing a support character and know that you have absolutely no recourse but to do as much damage as you can before you fall over.
Now of course the answer to THAT is "have some people around you ready to save your ass" which underscores how much of a coordinated team-based game this was designed to be. Like most competitive games these days, it feels like it was designed primarily for tournaments. Cool if that's your thing, but I think it'll be a long time before I'm in the mood to absolutely optimize how I play any video game again.
Now of course the answer to THAT is "have some people around you ready to save your ass" which underscores how much of a coordinated team-based game this was designed to be. Like most competitive games these days, it feels like it was designed primarily for tournaments. Cool if that's your thing, but I think it'll be a long time before I'm in the mood to absolutely optimize how I play any video game again.
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