MGSV: THE PHANTOM PAINIS [Spoiler Tag]

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Romosome
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MGSV: THE PHANTOM PAINIS [Spoiler Tag]

Postby Romosome » Mon Sep 07, 2015 10:49 pm

REALLY GOOD

shit I think I messed up the title there

We've got to take revenge, right after we repaint the base, and play with this puppy, and chase down some sheep

Please use spoiler tags for any nerdgasming that isn't like in the first 5 minutes of the game, I'll try to set the tone

-Yes there is a puppy it is adorable
-Kiefer Sutherland isn't as good as David Hayter but oh well he tried
-The Skull Unit is freaky as shit
-I have no idea at all where the plot is gonna go for possibly the first time in a Metal Gear since 4 and that excites me
-The way Big Boss opens supply boxes is the best thing ever

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Re: MGSV: THE PHANTOM PAINIS [Spoiler Tag]

Postby Esperath » Mon Sep 07, 2015 11:00 pm

MGSV: THE PHANTOM PANINIS
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Romosome
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Re: MGSV: THE PHANTOM PAINIS [Spoiler Tag]

Postby Romosome » Mon Sep 07, 2015 11:06 pm

every night, I can feel my bread, and my cheese

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Grath
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Re: MGSV: THE PHANTOM PAINIS [Spoiler Tag]

Postby Grath » Mon Sep 07, 2015 11:13 pm

Shouldn't this be in the Games forum? Possibly even in the already-existing Metal Gear Solid thread?

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Re: MGSV: THE PHANTOM PAINIS [Spoiler Tag]

Postby Romosome » Mon Sep 07, 2015 11:40 pm

that's an excellent point, and I thought it was there

I made a separate topic because the existing thread didn't have any V posts and I figured people might be spoiler shy idk

at any rate, apparently I can't delete or move this myself, so

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Re: MGSV: THE PHANTOM PAINIS [Spoiler Tag]

Postby Esperath » Mon Sep 07, 2015 11:45 pm

this thread will exist as an everlasting monument to the spooky panini
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Re: MGSV: THE PHANTOM PAINIS [Spoiler Tag]

Postby Smiler » Tue Sep 08, 2015 10:50 am

You're a dog Romo.

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Re: MGSV: THE PHANTOM PAINIS [Spoiler Tag]

Postby Grath » Tue Sep 08, 2015 5:48 pm


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Re: MGSV: THE PHANTOM PAINIS [Spoiler Tag]

Postby Romosome » Fri Sep 11, 2015 5:28 pm

Mission 11 spoilers:
What happens if you decide to shoot Quiet?Does she just Skull out and stop you?

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Re: MGSV: THE PHANTOM PAINIS [Spoiler Tag]

Postby Spooky Skeleton » Fri Sep 11, 2015 6:07 pm

Snake Kills Dumbledore.

I don't ever have the game, but just from watching game play of the start of the game, it was pretty obvious to me that the player character is not actually Big Boss. I have since confirmed this. Hideo Kojima gets you to create an avatar head that doesn't look like snake before anything happens right in the middle of a dramatic scene about a guy having to deal with being a war amp? Yeah, he doesn't do stuff like that without a purpose. Hideo loves pretending he's just doing standard, narrative conflicting "video game stuff" when he's actually tying it into the narrative. Raiden's house being empty, etc. Then, suddenly, your helpless character who seems to keep rejecting his reality, is saved by a super competent soldier who's face is conveniently covered with bandages, never tells you his real name, and is also voiced by Keifer. This guy sure seems to know how to sneak around well, I wonder who he could possibly be(Not really, he's Big Boss).

Your player character is actually the medic from the helicopter who dove in front of Big Boss when the bomb went off. Hence why your character has all these crazy injuries that Big Boss is never shown as having in any of the other games that follow the events of this such as when he shows up at the end of MGS4. He is Venom Snake or Punished Snake, not the same character as Big Boss, but an other soldier who was brainwashed into thinking he was Big Boss.

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Re: MGSV: THE PHANTOM PAINIS [Spoiler Tag]

Postby patito » Fri Sep 11, 2015 6:09 pm

Yeah, no, you're actually wrong about that. I don't think you can shoot quiet even if you wanted.

you sort of wear an eyepatch for funsies after character creation.

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Re: MGSV: THE PHANTOM PAINIS [Spoiler Tag]

Postby Romosome » Fri Sep 11, 2015 6:30 pm

Suzanne Parkinson wrote:Snake Kills Dumbledore.

I don't ever have the game, but just from watching game play of the start of the game, it was pretty obvious to me that the player character is not actually Big Boss. I have since confirmed this. Hideo Kojima gets you to create an avatar head that doesn't look like snake before anything happens right in the middle of a dramatic scene about a guy having to deal with being a war amp? Yeah, he doesn't do stuff like that without a purpose. Hideo loves pretending he's just doing standard, narrative conflicting "video game stuff" when he's actually tying it into the narrative. Raiden's house being empty, etc. Then, suddenly, your helpless character who seems to keep rejecting his reality, is saved by a super competent soldier who's face is conveniently covered with bandages, never tells you his real name, and is also voiced by Keifer. This guy sure seems to know how to sneak around well, I wonder who he could possibly be(Not really, he's Big Boss).

Your player character is actually the medic from the helicopter who dove in front of Big Boss when the bomb went off. Hence why your character has all these crazy injuries that Big Boss is never shown as having in any of the other games that follow the events of this such as when he shows up at the end of MGS4. He is Venom Snake or Punished Snake, not the same character as Big Boss, but an other soldier who was brainwashed into thinking he was Big Boss.


As commited as everyone is to thinking Kojima is just feeding them lies after Raiden in MGS2, that avatar is just for the online components Konami demanded. They just found a silly way to integrate it into the plot. It can also be customized at any time from your iDroid.

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Re: MGSV: THE PHANTOM PAINIS [Spoiler Tag]

Postby Spooky Skeleton » Fri Sep 11, 2015 6:58 pm

Romosome wrote:that avatar is just for the online components Konami demanded.

Romosome wrote:They just found a silly way to integrate it into the plot.


Pick one.

Of course it's for the multiplayer, I didn't say it didn't ALSO serve a real purpose other than narrative. That's the whole point, that it does both, otherwise it wouldn't be clever.

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Re: MGSV: THE PHANTOM PAINIS [Spoiler Tag]

Postby Joxam » Fri Sep 11, 2015 10:37 pm

I don't see how so many people, even LPers I've watched, seem to have missed the fact that the doctor tells YOU, TELLS YOU that tonight will be your last night as Boss before you start your new life and then he is immediately killed. The narrative isn't that you had your face changed, its that tomorrow you were going to but everyone got fucked before you could.

The only crazy starting area theory I believe is that the guy that helps you is actually snake's imagination and snake is doing everything himself. The reason I believe this is that by my count he is killed three times when you escape, Burned to death by fire dude, shot to death in the kill hallway and then once again at the end in the ambulance crash.
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Re: MGSV: THE PHANTOM PAINIS [Spoiler Tag]

Postby Grath » Sat Sep 12, 2015 12:40 am

Joxam wrote:I don't see how so many people, even LPers I've watched, seem to have missed the fact that the doctor tells YOU, TELLS YOU that tonight will be your last night as Boss before you start your new life and then he is immediately killed. The narrative isn't that you had your face changed, its that tomorrow you were going to but everyone got assfucked before you could.

The only crazy starting area theory I believe is that the guy that helps you is actually snake's imagination and snake is doing everything himself. The reason I believe this is that by my count he is killed three times when you escape, Burned to death by fire dude, shot to death in the kill hallway and then once again at the end in the ambulance crash.

Spoilers from what you played today: Emmerich's AI didn't recognize you in that mission you played tonight, it didn't believe you were Snake.

Spoilers from past where you've played: It is explicitly spelled out that you are not Big Boss, after which you see your avatar's face whenever you see yourself in a reflection. You are the medic that dove in front of Big Boss at the end of Ground Zeroes, with your face altered so you look like Big Boss and you're hypnotized/brainwashed/whatever into believing you're Big Boss. You're also the Big Boss body double that Snake defeated in the original Metal Gear.

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Re: MGSV: THE PHANTOM PAINIS [Spoiler Tag]

Postby Spooky Skeleton » Sat Sep 12, 2015 1:01 am

Joxam wrote:I don't see how so many people, even LPers I've watched, seem to have missed the fact that the doctor tells YOU, TELLS YOU that tonight will be your last night as Boss before you start your new life and then he is immediately killed. The narrative isn't that you had your face changed, its that tomorrow you were going to but everyone got assfucked before you could.

The only crazy starting area theory I believe is that the guy that helps you is actually snake's imagination and snake is doing everything himself. The reason I believe this is that by my count he is killed three times when you escape, Burned to death by fire dude, shot to death in the kill hallway and then once again at the end in the ambulance crash.


I can't speak for LPer's, they're morons. But I did not miss that Joxam. That has nothing to do with what I am saying. The player character was made to look like Big Boss before he ever "wakes up". The whole thing with them talking about how they are going to change your face is an other level of trickery. Big Boss wants everyone to think you are him. This way the lie that you are him and changed your face to look different, if they ever figure out that happened, they'll assume that's where the rabbit hole ends. It's convoluted, but thats Metal Gear for you. The whole thing is just sort of an admittedly sloppy way to present the idea that face changing is a "thing" in this universe. Of course the Doctor gets killed before they change your face (again) because they want you to go through the game thinking that you are Big Boss.

But you aren't, you're Punished Snake. I think it's actually kind of a delayed retcon because they want it to be so that the Big Boss that Solid Snake kills in Zanzibar is not the real Big Boss, it's this phony one from Phantom Pain. That way, him re appearing in MGS4 isn't so nanomachine magical, you just never killed him in the first place.

Anyway, none of this is theories or people not understanding dialogue from Doctors, it's all spelled out in one of the endings of the game.


From the Metal Gear wiki:

In the secret ending, Ishmael was the first to awake from the crash, being pulled from the vehicle by Ocelot. Ishmael, now revealed as Big Boss removed his bandages, given clothing, eyepatch and bike to leave. Ocelot told Big Boss that the "double" will be fine with the title, and believes himself to be Big Boss. Ocelot gave him ID as "Fallen", for Venom Snake is "Big Boss" for the time being.

Later, he sent a tape to Venom Snake, telling him that he (Ishmael) is the real Big Boss but that Venom Snake was also Big Boss, because he had carved his own future. Stating the two have created "legends", he calls Venom Snake a "friend" as the latter takes the title in Diamond Dogs

The other side of the tape read "Operation Intrude N313" and Venom Snake puts it into an MSX bitcorder, implying that Big Boss was informing him about Solid Snake's arrival at Outer Heaven.

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Re: MGSV: THE PHANTOM PAINIS [Spoiler Tag]

Postby patito » Sat Sep 12, 2015 5:47 am

Well, since we're going full spoileriffic, suffice to say people shouldn't get into fights over what is or isn't a spoiler if they don't want to be spoiled

Punished "Venom" Snake is as you've read in the wiki not Big Boss, but he is the Big Boss you fight in MG1, and it sort of fits.

So according to the wiki, it seems you do still fight actual Big Boss in Zanzibar land during the events of MG2, which involved lighting him on fire with an improvised method. So Big Boss looking pretty good at the end of MGS4 is still nanomachine magic.

The patriots also recovered his body at some point so Big Boss is totally sort of dead but not totally dead after that.

You gotta remember that no matter how many body parts Big Boss is missing at any point doesn't really matter because at the end of MGS4 he's a convoluted mess of body parts of which some if not all belong to Solidus. This stuff is coming from Big Boss's mouth in the end of MGS4.


Everything in the wiki is still making assumptions, because you do get the tape for operation intrude N313, which heavily hints at you becoming Big Boss for MG1, but in MG2 Big Boss has cybernetic parts, which could easily make you Big Boss for MG2 in zanzibarland. In any case, a different Big Boss died in each of the original Metal Gear games and that's the takeaway from the whole situation.

Like if we had ever gotten an actual remake of the original Metal Gear games I could see Kojima basically having the two games as one, were Gray Fox gets seemingly captured and Solid Snake rescues him at some point but then Fox turns on him, and basically Big Boss (Venom Snake) dying only once. Metal Gear Solid is already basically the Metal Gear 2 remake. But even that wouldn't really explain the BIg Boss body the patriots had recovered, and that they had been in possession of even before Solidus was president, so yeah, real Big Boss totally dies at some point too.

But anyway, the whole bit with the face seemingly being only for the online component but being actually very integral to the whole "phantom" theme of the entire game is super clever. Like even Skull Face himself fits into the theme by virtue is him also being Big Boss's phantom, just a different kind of phntom.

Another big hint that's pretty early on in the game about Venom Snake not being Naked Snake is the fact that you don't know russian and there's even a small conversation about it about how you probably just forgot it from the shards in your brain. MGS3 basically establishes that Naked Snake is speaking russian with everyone he meets in person and good russian at that. This may not seem like a big deal at first, but MGSV makes a big deal out of languages too.

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Re: MGSV: THE PHANTOM PAINIS [Spoiler Tag]

Postby Newbie » Sun Sep 13, 2015 1:35 pm

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Re: MGSV: THE PHANTOM PAINIS [Spoiler Tag]

Postby Spooky Skeleton » Mon Sep 14, 2015 3:35 am


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Re: MGSV: THE PHANTOM PAINIS [Spoiler Tag]

Postby patito » Mon Sep 14, 2015 9:47 pm

Having actually listened to the end game tapes it's all way clearer than the wiki says. And it turns out you're Big Boss after all.

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