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Re: Undertale

Posted: Fri Nov 02, 2018 11:28 am
by nosimpleway
It only took me like fifteen tries to beat Sans so yeah maybe dial it up a notch come on

Re: Undertale

Posted: Fri Nov 02, 2018 5:32 pm
by zaratustra
so another thing that may be helpful to understand the ending

apparently you can still move the heart around when it's in the birdcage

Re: Undertale

Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2018 4:22 pm
by beatbandito
We're far beyond 24 hours now, so I'm going full spoiler.

One thought that I can't get out of my head as the OST loops in the background all day is that I'm terrified to see what Susie goes home to after part 1.

I know monster diets are something entirely different, but you don't get used to subsisting off chalk and classmate faces without a bad home situation. Clearly she's not bad, as she finds a friend in Lancer entirely on her own, and grows to accept the empathy that's always been there openly. But I'm sure anyone reading this knows the feeling of having a moment of major growth or awareness, to feel real relief, then go right back to the environment you had just managed to escape.

Just the thought of seeing her regressed again at the start of part 2 is killing me.

Re: Undertale

Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2018 4:57 pm
by zaratustra
like someone pointed out, "deltarune is the story of two potential school shooters and a submissive twink"

Re: Undertale

Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2018 5:21 pm
by mharr
Memo to self: Do not google unknown phrasing above.

Re: Undertale

Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2018 5:58 pm
by Friday
No spoiler tags below, if you're (for some reason) reading this thread and still haven't beaten Deltarune, click away now.

One thing that's bugging me is the inconsistency with Chara/Kris once she (I'm just going to use feminine pronouns because that's my headcanon and the game is set up so you can do that) rips out the heart.

The cage is used often, there's a stain. So the implication is Kris has been doing this shit for awhile, right?

That pokes holes in my "the player/Frisk brought Chara along with them" theory. It implies that Kris has always been this way.

But the smile and knife are very Chara-esque. So if Kris is similar to Chara and has been for some time (which is what the wagon seems to imply) then how the fuck is anyone in town still alive? Chara isn't the type to "hide under people's beds and scare them", she's the type to just murder everyone.

If she's not, and she's just like this super creepy person, well, then I would argue that the ending of Deltarune is actually flawed.

I dunno. It's all speculation at this point anyway. Toby himself confirmed this was an AU in his FAQ when he said "Your undertale universe is just as you left it", so. This is confirmed as a Majora's Mask situation. That doesn't mean there aren't links, of course.

Sans is pretty heavily hinted at being "prime". He just moved to town, he winks when he says he doesn't know you, in the Undertale game there's the photo (three people, "don't forget") he has in his lab, etc. I'd bet money that Sans and The Player are the only two people from Undertale. I guess maybe also Papyrus.

So the question again becomes what the hell is the ending character who rips out the heart? It's not you, because as Zara and others noted, the Player is the Heart. You can move it in the cage, contact with vessel at start shows heart, etc. So is Chara a native of Deltarune (as creepy Kris) or a tag along from Undertale?

Both possibilities have problems with the information we have. I guess if you characterize Kris as just like, this super creepy girl who likes to smile exactly like Chara and has a knife exactly like Chara then it works, but that's really misleading by Toby. You don't signal a merciless killing machine and then go "lol actually Kris is just a person who hides under beds and scares monsters".

Everything else makes sense to me except this.

Re: Undertale

Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2018 6:29 pm
by Z%rø
Keep in mind there's also that point where your soul exits the body to follow/control Susie and Ralsei is left talking to Kris and nothing happens. So it's clearly not the same sort of murderous intent. At least not up until that point?

Re: Undertale

Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2018 3:13 am
by Defenestration
You're forgetting who Ralsei is.

Asriel was always Chara's friend, even right up to the end. It might be, nothing happened because it WAS Ralsei.

Re: Undertale

Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2018 8:22 am
by beatbandito
Chara seems to have ascended in people's minds beyond just a character from the first game, which Toby has said won't be back. Heck, I don't even think Sans is 'Prime Sans' like people say. Maybe, it wouldn't be the biggest surprise if he became a series staple, but I don't think its necessary that he be the same character as much as he act like the same character. I also expect Papyrus to be different in the same way as Undyne or Alphys, same personality with a different outfit basically.

The hearts represent human souls, there were six others we saw in Undertale. Red didn't represent Frisk, it represented determination. It's obvious at the end of the chapter that Kris is acting differently than usual, but right now to me the player's interaction with Kris is just correlation, and I don't think there's enough yet to determine causation either way. But if it's a determined heart or not, and if Kris is more or less in control of themselves than usual, the ending is a ritual and not a first-time thing. I think this is just Kris' internal battle, not Frisk/Player vs. Chara/Player through Kris' body. The theme can persist without the characters.

Right now I'm most interested in figuring out whoever is with us in the dark, because they really want us to remember they're there.


Re: Undertale

Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2018 9:51 am
by mharr
Defenestration got into this earlier, Chara isn't necessarily an in universe character so much as an archetypal avatar of the disengaged player stepping outside of role-play. She's part of us, not part of them, so every Chara is an equal part of the same demon even if the name varies.

Maybe. Depends whose playthrough we're watching.

Re: Undertale

Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2018 4:04 pm
by zaratustra
Friday wrote:But the smile and knife are very Chara-esque. So if Kris is similar to Chara and has been for some time (which is what the wagon seems to imply) then how the fuck is anyone in town still alive?


Keep in mind Chara has access to way less firepower and any way has a vastly overstated reputation.

In the original game Chara's kill count is... zero. Nada. Zilch. Unless you count managing to kill herself.

Re: Undertale

Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2018 8:13 pm
by beatbandito
The ending is so obvious, we're all idiots.

what's the last conversation Kris has before waking up and pulling out the knife?

Re: Undertale

Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2018 10:04 pm
by mharr
... Don't eat all the pies?

Re: Undertale

Posted: Wed Nov 07, 2018 3:43 pm
by beatbandito
expect shitposts here daily until Delta Rune actually drops


Re: Undertale

Posted: Wed Nov 07, 2018 3:57 pm
by zaratustra
beatbandito wrote:The ending is so obvious, we're all idiots.

what's the last conversation Kris has before waking up and pulling out the knife?


Sans saying he fucked his mom?

Re: Undertale

Posted: Wed Nov 07, 2018 4:12 pm
by beatbandito
Image

Re: Undertale

Posted: Thu Nov 08, 2018 6:10 pm
by beatbandito
Image

Re: Undertale

Posted: Fri Nov 09, 2018 8:43 pm
by beatbandito

Re: Undertale

Posted: Fri Nov 09, 2018 8:54 pm
by mharr
You're doing the Lord's work, dredging these diamonds from the swamp.

Re: Undertale

Posted: Sat Nov 10, 2018 9:47 am
by beatbandito
don't worry I'm sure it'll get worse