General Old Game Hardware Thread

[Thad]

Tried a few different Saturn emulators and they all crash with various error messages. I don't think this 15-year-old graphics card is going to cut it. So I guess I'll see if I can't find whatever the most recent graphics card is that's tested working out of the box on GroovyArcade. Maybe see if I can find it in half-height.

[Thad]

...nope, not sure what changed but Beetle Saturn is running now. Not getting terribly consistent results on the modelines; some games start with a garbage screen and then resolve after the BIOS splash, others stay garbagey but the music is audible.

Noticed some slight stuttering in the audio with Panzer Dragoon (which I can see). Garbage screen for Mega Man 8 so it's not playable, but the audio on the attract mode sounds smooth.

Still probably a good idea to look for a better-but-not-too-good graphics card. I'd like to be able to play Phantasy Star Generation 1 at higher than 4 FPS. (ETA Okay I tried switching to the other PS2 core and I'm getting 60 now, so nevermind on the PS2.)

[Thad]

Okay, fixed Saturn refresh by setting a super resolution in the CRT SwitchRes settings and turning integer scaling on. FPS counter is invisible (I can just see the corner of it; it's in the overscan region) but Mega Man 8 looks and sounds more or less like it's supposed to (audio slightly different from what I'm used to in the PS1 version but I'll chalk that up to version differences). The games whose sound was sputtering before isn't anymore, either.

I'll probably still look for a half-height graphics card, but I don't think I'll be getting any performance gain over this one on the games I intend to play with it (arcade games that won't run on my MiSTer, Saturn, N64, PS2 games that won't run on real hardware). I think I might finally have a viable setup for an emulation box connected to my TV.

Wonder if I can get it to play streaming video -- Kodi or even just a browser running at fullscreen. Could also put a DVD drive in it, but that's pretty redundant since I already have a PS2 and a DVD-R/VCR combo hooked up.

[Thad]

Okay, fixed Saturn refresh by setting a super resolution in the CRT SwitchRes settings and turning integer scaling on. FPS counter is invisible (I can just see the corner of it; it's in the overscan region)

Figured out how to do it without fucking up the overlays; it's referenced on the GroovyArcade wiki but it took a bit of figuring out to get what they meant by it. The CRTSwitchRes page in the RetroArch wiki helps, and includes a link to a sample file.

I took that file and only made three changes:

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monitor                   generic_15   # was arcade_15

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dotclock_min              8            # was 0

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super_width               1920         # was 2560

and I don't think that last one matters since I'm not using a super_width anymore.

And then in RetroArch I changed the super resolution to "NATIVE" and set SwitchRes to use the INI file.

It's that dotclock_min variable that's the important one; that prevents it from hitting one of those unsupported framerates.

Doing it this way means the overlays stay at the same ratio instead of getting squished like they do with a super resolution. The FPS still gets cut off at Saturn resolutions, but I can still read it in other emulators, and I can read the other overlays in the Saturn emulator.

I'm writing all this down in case I ever need to do it again (which I probably will if I rebuild this thing), and it also might be a good idea for me to add it to the GroovyArcade wiki. For future reference here's my graphics card information:

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$ lspci | grep VGA
01:00.0 VGA compatible controller: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. [AMD/ATI] RV630 XT [Radeon HD 2600 XT]

[Thad]

Once I finally dropped "fits in a mini-PC case" (and, with it, "uses onboard graphics") as a requirement, the project started to come into much clearer focus.

Mini-PC is out but I should be able to make a slim desktop work. I ordered a used barebones HP desktop that I can drop my processor, RAM, and SSD into, plus a low profile R7 250 for the graphics. I can use the Bluetooth dongle and whatever else I've got connected to the Pi that I previously tried to use for this project (future project: okay, so now I've got a Raspberry Pi 4 I'm not doing anything with; what should I do with it?).

It's not the most convenient size (if I'm lucky, I might be able to fit it in the mini-cabinet with my other retro gaming equipment*; if not, I'll have to stick it on a shelf under the TV and then run cables from it to the cabinet back to the TV, which isn't ideal but is a compromise I'm willing to make at this point), but I'm feeling pretty good about my progress.

I haven't tried it yet but I did notice that GroovyArcade has a desktop mode, so I should be able to use that to install and run any arbitrary programs I want (Kodi, Firefox, whatever), so watching videos should be a perfectly attainable goal. Running an actual desktop UI isn't ideal, but I can *probably* set up launchers that will run straight from AttractMode if I want to mess around with that.

* this would probably mean packing up my SNES to make room and just using my MiSTer for SNES gaming; I think it's caught up enough that it'll do everything real hardware plus an SD2SNES and a Super Game Boy 2 will, and I can turn off automatic saving if I ever want to play Shiren or anything else that would otherwise be constantly writing to the SD card

[Thad]

"What controller should I use for this Sega emulator?" is an easier question than it used to be, but still a bafflingly, needlessly complicated one.

I have an official Retro-Bit Saturn controller; it feels light and cheap but should get the job done. I also have an 8bitdo M30, which feels a lot sturdier and generally gets pretty solid reviews.

Either of those controllers should get the job done for most Saturn games. But what about the ones with analog support?

The obvious answer is the Retro Fighters BrawlerGen USB. The obvious answer is a filthy lie. Its "analog" stick is digital.

Retro-Bit has had an officially-licensed Saturn controller with analog sticks in the works for years now, but it's still unreleased, and, per RetroRGB's most recent testing, has some pretty serious compromises.

I have a Retro Fighters Brawler 64 and that seems like probably the best option there is right now. Besides just getting a real Saturn 3D controller and a USB dongle, which I'm considering, but from what I've read the Mayflash adapter has some issues, the raphnet adapter is out of stock, the Ultimate Daemon is a little on the pricey side, and if I want to order a Geeky Fab adapter I'm going to have to brush up on my Japanese.

[Thad]

Hm -- you know what other controller is sort-of-but-not-quite like a Saturn 3D controller, and reminds me of another of my retro console blind spots?

The motherflippin' Duke.

[Thad]

The Hori Fighting Commander Octa is almost right. It has six face buttons and a single analog stick, but doesn't have analog triggers.

[Thad]

Dag, the Brawler 64 triggers feel like they're probably digital too. And they're both the same button (N64's Z).

There really is no good solution to this. That's wild. I guess I can start looking at weird controllers for the PS2, GameCube, and Xbox just in case there's anything there. (The Duke has the right set of buttons but the positioning is all wrong; it'd be really uncomfortable to use the black and white buttons as Z and C.)

[Thad]

I can use the Bluetooth dongle and whatever else I've got connected to the Pi

Nope, the Pi 4 has onboard Bluetooth.

I wonder where my Bluetooth dongles went. Pretty sure I had at least two, one for my main and one for my HTPC, but I've rebuilt both of those with MBs with onboard Bluetooth. One of the dongles is in the MiSTer now, but where'd the other one go?

I mean, I can get a new one for $5 and it's not worth the trouble to try to find an old one, but that's going to bug me.

[Thad]

More on 6-button controllers: Mad Catz had a 6-button Dreamcast pad with analog stick and analog triggers, they're still easy to find for cheap, and the Raphnet Dreamcast-USB adapter might work with it, but its button placement doesn't look much better than the Duke's.

It's looking increasingly like the best option is to wait for Raphnet to get a new batch of Saturn-USB adapters ready and buy a damn Saturn 3D controller.

[Thad]

Waaaaaaaait hold the phone what the hell is this



Ipega PG-9191 Elvis Presley double rocker handle

Are those analog triggers?



Maybe? They sure look like the analog triggers on the Saturn 3D pad. Though that could just be a cosmetic thing, seeing as the entire controller is obviously designed to look like the Saturn 3D pad.



ETA: Digital. Dag.

[Upthorn]

I forget. Did any Saturn game even make use of the analog triggers? I don't think NiGHTs did...

[Thad]

This list says it does: 3D Controller analogue trigger games?

I'm a total Saturn neophyte, so I can't vouch for any of this stuff, but I'm excited to find out. I went through a bit of a TG-16/NeoGeo kick when I got my MiSTer and I oughta return to those at some point; I like checking out consoles I'm not really familiar with.

Hell, I loaded up some Jaguar ROMs earlier today.

[Thad]

I ordered a used barebones HP desktop that I can drop my processor, RAM, and SSD into, plus a low profile R7 250 for the graphics.

The good news is that the graphics card works. The bad news is that swapping graphics cards appears to have fucked up my settings somehow and the menu still works but most games won't load now. (Swapping the old card back in doesn't fix the issue.) NBD since I expected I'd need to do a clean install once I swap the processor into the new case anyway, but a little annoying since I'd been thinking I might actually try playing some games on it tonight, and the case just shipped from Canada and won't be here for a few days yet.

Hm -- you know what other controller is sort-of-but-not-quite like a Saturn 3D controller, and reminds me of another of my retro console blind spots?

The motherflippin' Duke.

Unfortunately there's no Xbox core for Retroarch and, while I probably could set an external one up from GroovyArcade, I'm not sure how well it'd work with switchres and all that jazz. That one might be better not to fuck around trying to get to work on a 480i CRT at this point. (Could always just buy one, of course, but I'm at the point where I'm taking retro consoles *out* of that cabinet, so I don't know that I want to start adding more of the suckers. And nothing's really leaping to mind that I'd need to play on an Xbox that isn't available for PS2 or GameCube.)

I forget whether my 360 is one of the backward compatible ones; I don't think it is. I used to have one that was backward compatible but it got stolen and when I replaced it I bought a later model. Of course, if I'm playing on my living room TV anyway then I can always just install a standalone emulator on my HTPC.

[Thad]

Analogue’s next project is an accurate, hardware-emulated Nintendo 64 replica

New console will be FPGA-based but won't support other openFPGA cores.

Looks like there's an 8bitdo controller coming, too; Analogue released an image that's too dark to really see but someone in the comments lightened it up and it's about what you'd expect; it looks a lot like the Retro Fighters and Retro-Bit versions.

[Thad]

Barebones PC came in. A little more barebones than I realized; I'm a little annoyed the guy took the drive caddies out, but, on closer inspection, that's clear from the photos so I'm not going to ding him for it.

Right now I've got an old SATA SSD sitting in a caddy I had lying around; it doesn't click into the bay like an HP caddy would and right now I've got it held in with one screw that doesn't really fit. I don't love it, and it might be a good excuse to just buy a damn NVME drive; it looks like you can get a decent size from a reputable brand for under $30 these days. Doesn't really matter in the scheme of things; it's not like this is the kind of thing where I'll get much extra speed out of an NVME drive compared to SATA, and even the 120GB drive I've got should be plenty of space. But the interior of my case would be a little cleaner (I'd know) and I'd probably get a little more life out of a new drive; I don't know how old the drive I'm using is but I know that the first computer I used it in was one I got in 2007.

Hm. Let me look up how long a drive I can fit.

[Thad]

Figured out how to do it without fucking up the overlays; it's referenced on the GroovyArcade wiki but it took a bit of figuring out to get what they meant by it. The CRTSwitchRes page in the RetroArch wiki helps, and includes a link to a sample file.

Didn't need to do any of that shit with the new graphics card (R7 250).

Though the overlay text on Saturn is too tiny to read and...the overlays don't seem to be going away. Well that's irritating.

ETA: That went away but then I got horizontal lines on the picture until I set Hard GPU Sync. Seems okay now.

[Thad]

...and of course as soon as I've finally got a Saturn emulation box set up the Saturn core gets pushed to mainline MiSTer.

...I can't actually get any games to load, so there's that, but that's probably only a matter of time.

Ah well. The PC will still be good for...N64 and Dreamcast, I guess. (I own an N64 and a Dreamcast, but they're not modded, so I'm limited to stuff I've got on cartridge for the 64, and while the Dreamcast will play burned games it sometimes involves some codec shenanigans that mess up the audio sync.) And any arcade boards that aren't supported on the MiSTer yet. And maybe streaming video if I get that set up. And...I dunno, Jaguar, 3DO, NGPC, maybe native games like Ur-Quan Masters? Yeah, I think I can still get some use out of it.

The 128GB SD card I've got in my MiSTer is getting a little tight. OTOH I just got a 512GB one for my Pocket and it turns out it's way too big, so I can probably just swap them. I mean, I say "just" but re-copying everything is going to be a huge, time-consuming hassle. Still, there are worse things.

[Thad]

The 128GB SD card I've got in my MiSTer is getting a little tight. OTOH I just got a 512GB one for my Pocket and it turns out it's way too big, so I can probably just swap them.

The Pocket's almost as full (in terms of number of bytes, not proportion of the available space; there's not as much shit on it as the MiSTer but it doesn't support zipped romsets like the MiSTer does) but I could easily free up 32.6 GB by getting rid of the GBA romset. I tend to play GB/GBC/GBA games off an EverDrive rather than the OpenFPGA cores anyway.

OTOH I could get a 256GB microSD card for $18. And the time I'd save by having a third card for the swappy dance is probably worth $18 in itself.

As for why I can't get Saturn games to work on my MiSTer, it's probably my memory expansion; apparently there are some compatibility issues with the older ones. This feels more like a wait-and-see situation; the core's still beta and the dev's working on the problem.