GOP Will Shit Itself

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Mongrel
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Re: GOP Will Shit Itself

Postby Mongrel » Fri Nov 10, 2017 1:47 am

Well, it's technically more than just rumours. There have been several comedians who have spoken out publicly, but most (not all) were persuaded to stop. Since no charges were laid (many involved weren't even sure if what Louis CK had been doing was technically illegal). As per the NYT article, the history of this has been rather a mess.

Also, I didn't know he had a movie coming out, but the content alluded to by the article sounds super fucking creepy.
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Re: GOP Will Shit Itself

Postby Thad » Fri Nov 10, 2017 10:36 am

Kirkman's the only name I'd ever seen attached to the accusations, and again, she didn't name names and later said she wasn't talking about Louis CK (which, inded, knowing what we know now looks like she may well have been pressured into saying). Tig Notaro's been speaking out about it too, but she's a secondhand source.

Per the article, Goodman and Wolov told other people about it, and then stopped under pressure, but I wouldn't call that speaking out publicly.

I think it's fair to say that up until yesterday we didn't have any primary sources stating publicly that this had happened and Louis CK was the guy who'd done it. There was enough talk about it for a long enough period of time that it was reasonable to believe there was something there, but as far as I know yesterday is the first real confirmation we've had.

Could be I'm wrong. Entertainment news is not something I keep a lot of track of. I didn't know there'd been any rumors about Spacey, but apparently they've been persistent for years and years too.

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Re: GOP Will Shit Itself

Postby Joxam » Fri Nov 10, 2017 1:09 pm

I mean Louis himself was a primary source if you listen to an entire 10 minute chunk that he had in a special like a half a dozen years back. He's been talking about liking to take his dick out and jack off in front of people for like a decade at least. I cannot remember who it was but I vividly remember one of the Conan writers laughingly joking about how Louis would call meetings in his office (not with women in the person's joke) and just have his dick out when people walked in as a joke.

Of course its kinda of hard right now to find the story I'm referring to on google because googling anything about Louis' dick brings up the allegations.
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Re: GOP Will Shit Itself

Postby Mongrel » Fri Nov 10, 2017 10:52 pm



Also, I dunno if you guys want to move the Louis CK stuff to another thread? If so, not sure which one?
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Re: GOP Will Shit Itself

Postby Grath » Fri Nov 10, 2017 11:10 pm

Mongrel wrote:

Also, I dunno if you guys want to move the Louis CK stuff to another thread? If so, not sure which one?

Probably barefoot and pregnant?
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Re: GOP Will Shit Itself

Postby Mongrel » Sat Nov 11, 2017 1:01 am

I mean, it seems like he's actually pretty self-aware about it. There's quotes where he acknowledges it, tries to apologize, or says he "has problems".

But that actually makes it worse. Because he has that self-awareness and instead of getting help, he just kept doing it.
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Re: GOP Will Shit Itself

Postby Joxam » Sat Nov 11, 2017 12:36 pm

I'm actually a little torn right now because on one hand I've been on the Louis CK is a piece of shit train for a while but he released the first public statement that actually read like a condemnation of his action, gave reason for them without excusing them and unequivically apologized.

Of course he still did the thing that required the public statement and it can't help but be noted that he is one of the first out and out great writers to have to do this so of course his statement is going to be better than most.
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Re: GOP Will Shit Itself

Postby Thad » Sat Nov 11, 2017 1:42 pm

Grath wrote:
Mongrel wrote:Also, I dunno if you guys want to move the Louis CK stuff to another thread? If so, not sure which one?

Probably barefoot and pregnant?

That's where we've mainly been talking about harassment, yeah. Though it might be worth moving general harassment/assault stories to a new Most Depressing Thread Ever. "Barefoot and Pregnant", as a title, doesn't quite fit the allegations against Kevin Spacey and Charlie Sheen, for example. Or Terry Crews's story about being groped.

(Of course, they are all examples of patriarchy/toxic masculinity, so they're at least "barefoot and pregnant"-adjacent.)

Joxam wrote:I mean Louis himself was a primary source if you listen to an entire 10 minute chunk that he had in a special like a half a dozen years back. He's been talking about liking to take his dick out and jack off in front of people for like a decade at least. I cannot remember who it was but I vividly remember one of the Conan writers laughingly joking about how Louis would call meetings in his office (not with women in the person's joke) and just have his dick out when people walked in as a joke.

I can't say as I've seen that bit, but yeah, a good big chunk of his standup was "I am a terrible person and I have terrible thoughts and I jack off like all the time." I think a lot of people thought he was exaggerating for comic effect.

Mongrel wrote:I mean, it seems like he's actually pretty self-aware about it. There's quotes where he acknowledges it, tries to apologize, or says he "has problems".

But that actually makes it worse. Because he has that self-awareness and instead of getting help, he just kept doing it.


It's like he's been inching toward self-awareness about it for ages. Acknowleding the power dynamic is good, Louis! It's a good start! And that whole business about "I never did it without asking first" at least indicates he understands the importance of consent, he's just got a warped notion of what consent is.

There was a line in one of his apologies about "I misread a lot of signals back then." Now, that's a subject I'm something of an expert in. When I was single, there were a lot of times I misread signals, and thought women were interested in me when they actually weren't. Those situations are awkward and embarrassing for everybody! But you know what never happened, in any of them? (1) Me pulling my dick out. (2) Me asking if it was okay to pull my dick out. I never asked that question! Partly because I already knew what the answer was, and partly because the question itself is a consent violation! You don't ask that question until you've already received consent for other stuff!

(I can think of some situations where it would be okay to ask somebody to watch you masturbate. If you're already in a sexual relationship, and in the sort of private conversation where it is okay to talk about sex, that is an appropriate time! Also, while I don't have any experience with prostitutes or sex clubs, one assumes those are appropriate circumstances to ask that question. I am sure there are subreddits devoted to this exact fetish; it would be okay to use those to meet people, either online or in person. You can use these ideas for free, Louie!)

Joxam wrote:I'm actually a little torn right now because on one hand I've been on the Louis CK is a piece of shit train for a while but he released the first public statement that actually read like a condemnation of his action, gave reason for them without excusing them and unequivically apologized.

Of course he still did the thing that required the public statement and it can't help but be noted that he is one of the first out and out great writers to have to do this so of course his statement is going to be better than most.


As first steps go, this is the first time in this whole wave of Hollywood predator scandals where I've seen somebody take the right one. Given that previous slimeballs' responses have ranged from "boilerplate denial" to "sue accuser" to "hire former IDF spy to befriend and inform on accuser", the bar is fucking low. That CK didn't publicly acknowledge or apologize for what he'd done until it was in the fucking New York Times does make it feel a little like "sorry I got caught" (though it sounds like he tried to apologize to some of his victims in private, and while his apologies were kinda bullshit, at least he tried). He's only acknowledged the four incidents explicitly referenced in the Times article, not any others (and you know there were others), and he's only barely alluded to the whole thing where he had his agent pressure his victims into silence. So yeah there are a lot of things to criticize about his apology. But at least it was a fucking apology.

He deserves credit for owning up to it. But only so much. I think most of us probably agree on that?

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Re: GOP Will Shit Itself

Postby Mongrel » Sat Nov 11, 2017 3:08 pm

Yeah, I'd agree. Partial credit for partial work.

One of the secondary things that irritates me so much about this is that recurring theme, that the attacker will advance the careers of his victims, either as bait (Feinstein is clearly just straight up predatory), or in Louis' case, as an apologia... of sorts. In both cases they're used as cover.

In Louis's case particularly it's basically the left-wing version of the old trope where the deeply conservative public figure vehemently opposes homosexuality/infidelity/corruption/whatever to cover their own homosexuality/infidelity/corruption/whatever (there's a specific name for the phenomenon, though I can't recall it at the moment).

When the conservatives do it, there's almost always something... off about the way such people spin their message. Few people are poker masters, so it's like a sort of... emotional uncanny valley undermines and cracks their facade. Of course we're learning that this is no less true for left-wing characters - you don't need to be a reactionary to use the same gimmick. It looks a little different, but there's still something not quite right - there's still a wall, and you can see the foundations have shifted it, but you're not quite sure what sort of damage is underground.

The rumours have coloured my opinion of Louis for years, but even before I'd heard any of them, there was always something... off that bothered me about the way he presented himself. I say it feels like some sort of uncanny valley because that really is the best way I can put it, where the person is saying and doing all the right things, but somehow it just doesn't look or sound right, in a way that's hard to put your finger on. Maybe that's just me though. I don't claim to be a human lie detector, but I am somewhat sensitive to deception. Then again, it's not like "Something just ain't right here" tells you a lot of meaningful information, or can't have false positives.

It's depressing because it's one more person who probably wouldn't have bothered to help women if they weren't using to cover their own crude misogyny. I'm already sort of semi-irrationally wary of any man who loudly proclaims he's "a feminist", no matter their credentials, and this only worsens that feeling.
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Re: GOP Will Shit Itself

Postby Mongrel » Sat Nov 11, 2017 3:23 pm

Back to Roy Moore, we have a... good article... from the National Review?

If You Refuse to Condemn Predators because of Politics, You’re Disgusting

Credit where it's due, I suppose; good on them for publishing this.
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Re: GOP Will Shit Itself

Postby TA » Sat Nov 11, 2017 3:58 pm

If you trap someone in a room, ask if you can whip your dick out and masturbate in front of them, they say no, and you do it anyway, I don't think you deserve "partial credit" for having asked. Or destroying careers of people who talk about it. Or working "Haha I sure do love masturbating" into your comedy. There's no points for self-awareness if you keep doing it anyway.
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Re: GOP Will Shit Itself

Postby Mongrel » Sat Nov 11, 2017 4:08 pm

TA wrote:If you trap someone in a room, ask if you can whip your dick out and masturbate in front of them, they say no, and you do it anything, I don't think you deserve "partial credit" for having asked. Or destroying careers of people who talk about it. Or working "Haha I sure do love masturbating" into your comedy. There's no points for self-awareness if you keep doing it anyway.

Thad's talking about just the apology. At least that's how I interpreted and replied to it.
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Re: GOP Will Shit Itself

Postby nosimpleway » Sat Nov 11, 2017 7:22 pm

Yeah, nobody here is defending the act, only pointing out that Louis CK has cleared the incredibly low bar of having the least shitty response to having those acts exposed.

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Re: GOP Will Shit Itself

Postby Büge » Sat Nov 11, 2017 8:03 pm


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Re: GOP Will Shit Itself

Postby Mongrel » Sat Nov 11, 2017 8:13 pm

She's completely right, but it is natural for people to think in stronger terms about something they already have a relationship with than one that's purely theoretical.

Frikkin humans, man.
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Re: GOP Will Shit Itself

Postby Thad » Sun Nov 12, 2017 2:14 pm

Mongrel wrote:Back to Roy Moore, we have a... good article... from the National Review?

If You Refuse to Condemn Predators because of Politics, You’re Disgusting

Credit where it's due, I suppose; good on them for publishing this.

Something I've been thinking about: I voted for Mark Mitchell for mayor. There were allegations, right before the election, that as a young teenager he'd once abused a girl who was a few years younger than him.

Now, it was different from the Moore allegations in a number of ways (chiefly that there was only one allegation), and ultimately I decided it seemed like a political smear and voted for him. But I'll never know for sure, and that bothers me.

I don't think it's a partisan thing. I don't think I gave Mitchell the benefit of the doubt because I already planned to vote for him, and am more willing to believe the allegations against Moore because I already thought his politics were horrible. I like to think I evaluated each case on its own merits without political bias. But we all have our biases, no matter how objective we try to be, and I just can't say for certain.

I voted for Mitchell. He's the mayor. Maybe he's guilty and maybe he's not. But the "maybe he is" makes me uncomfortable.

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Re: GOP Will Shit Itself

Postby Mongrel » Mon Nov 13, 2017 4:27 pm

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Re: GOP Will Shit Itself

Postby Mongrel » Mon Nov 13, 2017 4:39 pm

Oh wow, breaking new Moore accusation. Similar to the rest but with a visceral twist:





If you can't read the cursive, it says: "To a sweeter more beautiful girl I could not say Merry Christmas. Christmas 1977. Love, Roy Moore, DA."

CREEPY AS F
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Re: GOP Will Shit Itself

Postby Hardly Ideal » Mon Nov 13, 2017 4:46 pm

Moore press release wrote:...establishment republicans are colluding with the Obama-Clinton Machine behind the scenes in a blah blah blah

...you're telling me with a straight face that McConnell is working with Obama? The same guy who, during the worst financial fartstorm since the Great Depression, said the GOP's number one goal was to make Obama a one-term president? The obstructor in chief? The leader of the Party of No, working with a guy they spent eight years cock-blocking in every way possible?

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Re: GOP Will Shit Itself

Postby pacobird » Mon Nov 13, 2017 5:44 pm

I'm honestly a little surprised McConnell et al have condemned him as strongly as they have. They may hate Moore - he was never their guy, of course - but they really, really cannot afford to lose this seat.
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