War. War never changes. (Except when it does)

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Brentai
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Re: War. War never changes. (Except when it does)

Postby Brentai » Fri Jun 19, 2020 6:18 pm

Incidentally, the most reliable body count is 20 Indian, 35 Chinese, with no indication that the Indian side ever bothered to stop using just their fists.

Great Tiger is where I usually stop playing Punch-Out!!.
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Mongrel
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Re: War. War never changes. (Except when it does)

Postby Mongrel » Sat Jun 20, 2020 1:07 am

Brentai wrote:
Mongrel wrote:I know right? Like you see that sort of story and you just immediately figure some idiots opened fire at each other, whether by mistake or not, which is what usually happens.

This is like, how do you even describe that level of antipathy?

Testosterone man, it's a helluva drug (everyone being low on Oxygen probably didn't help either...).


So first off the reason they were not carrying guns and shooting at each other was due to a previous agreement where the soldiers in the area would simply not carry guns, to keep them from deciding to shoot at each other. So that was all by design.

So instead of weapons the Chinese soldiers started carrying batons, and then they started wrapping their batons in barbed wire and shit because the entire M.O. of China's military (and government) is to fuck with agreements as much as they can get away with. Nobody called them out on what's obviously a goddamned weapon so they just kept carrying them.

India's troops, on the other hand, reportedly went around completely unarmed, either to take some sort of high ground or to try and look really badass, who knows.

As usual it's hard to say what exactly triggered the brawl but India's claim is that the Chinese troops were somewhere they had very explicitly agreed not to be, and China's claim is essentially "We can be wherever the fuck we say is our land even if we had previously agreed not to be there" so yeaaaaah that was probably a straight-up incursion. And when you're unarmed, per agreement, and in a place where you can be, per agreement, and some gang of soldiers rolls right on up on you with a bunch of maces they're not supposed to have and tell you you're in their spot, and you've been given orders by your government to punch anyone who tries to do that until they either go away or they die... yeah, that's fuckin' go time.

tl;dr That wasn't just some brawl, that was a straight-up border skirmish that happened to have an arms restriction on it.

Yeah, knowing both sides this is 100% plausible. Given the sheer idiocy of "Wolf diplomacy" ("diplomacy") I'd be inclined to give India the benefit of the doubt anyway.

Casualty count too. If absolutely nothing else, the Indians have been fighting real conventional wars on their borders for decades - including a hell of a lot of fighting up in the mountains. I'd give good odds they were significantly better trained and supplied than the PLA schmucks who'd been dumped out there.
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Thad
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Re: War. War never changes. (Except when it does)

Postby Thad » Mon Jun 29, 2020 3:00 pm

When I keep saying "a bunch of shit is going to happen between now and November that we don't even know about yet," finding out that Russia put bounties on US soldiers' heads and Trump heard about it and did nothing is the kind of thing I'm talking about.

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Friday
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Re: War. War never changes. (Except when it does)

Postby Friday » Mon Jun 29, 2020 3:05 pm

The joke is that by the time we get to October and the video of Trump splitting a baby in half with his bare hands gets leaked, nobody will be left who isn't already polarized anyway so it will have zero impact.

I know, I know. That's not true. But I do think some level of diminishing returns on scandals are real.
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Re: War. War never changes. (Except when it does)

Postby Thad » Mon Jun 29, 2020 3:16 pm

Friday wrote:I know, I know. That's not true. But I do think some level of diminishing returns on scandals are real.

Maybe, but on the other hand the slope on his approval rating is the worst it's been since his first eight months in office.

He's about four points above his all-time low right now. There's time for him to recover, but there's also time for him to hit a new low. In more ways than one.

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Brentai
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Re: War. War never changes. (Except when it does)

Postby Brentai » Mon Jun 29, 2020 5:10 pm

You might hit diminishing returns among voters, but there's more than one factor of loyalty a leader has to consider. We've seen how aggressively this country's para-military mobilizes to protect its own; what happens when the actual soldiers decide that their commander-in-chief isn't exactly semper fi?
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Thad
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Re: War. War never changes. (Except when it does)

Postby Thad » Mon Jun 29, 2020 6:10 pm

Brentai wrote:You might hit diminishing returns among voters, but there's more than one factor of loyalty a leader has to consider. We've seen how aggressively this country's para-military mobilizes to protect its own; what happens when the actual soldiers decide that their commander-in-chief isn't exactly semper fi?

I haven't looked at polling breakdowns for the military recently, but I'm guessing the rank-and-file are still disproportionately pro-Trump (ETA and I don't know if even this will be enough to change that; it's not like Trump supporters are known for changing their stance after learning that he's done something harmful, even specifically harmful to a demographic they belong to).

A lot of the top brass seem to be sick of his bullshit, though. Not "orchestrate a coup" sick of it, but "drag his ass out of the White House if he loses in November and then refuses to leave" sick of it.

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François
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Re: War. War never changes. (Except when it does)

Postby François » Mon Jun 29, 2020 6:21 pm

So, just sick enough to do their job. That'll be the day.

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Re: War. War never changes. (Except when it does)

Postby Mongrel » Mon Jun 29, 2020 6:26 pm

I mean, at least we're not looking at some sort of modern-day MacArthur on top of everything else.
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Thad
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Re: War. War never changes. (Except when it does)

Postby Thad » Tue Jun 30, 2020 3:39 pm

Also is there anything quite so infuriating as Republicans saying "We should be cautious about what the intelligence agencies tell us; remember how terrible an idea the Iraq War turned out to be?"

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Re: War. War never changes. (Except when it does)

Postby Blossom » Tue Jun 30, 2020 6:43 pm

When Biden is defending that vote still ...
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Thad
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Re: War. War never changes. (Except when it does)

Postby Thad » Tue Jun 30, 2020 7:00 pm

Well obviously he had to vote for the war in order to prevent a war. That's just common sense.

Hahaohgod I need a drink. I think there's still some Wild Turkey in the liquor cabinet.

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