Barefoot and Pregnant

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Mongrel
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Re: Barefoot and Pregnant

Postby Mongrel » Thu Nov 30, 2017 9:56 pm



Ken at Popehat takes a look at Hollywood's past defence of sex criminals, particularly Roman Polanski (as well as how all the defences pioneered in doing so are being used by Moore supporters), and in doing so becomes literally physically ill and has trouble continuing to write.

Friday, you might not want to read the Cate Blanchett bit.

And the Whoopi Goldberg lines just make my skin crawl. Ew. Ew ew ew.
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Re: Barefoot and Pregnant

Postby Friday » Thu Nov 30, 2017 10:33 pm

“If it's a legitimate rape-rape, the Whoopi Goldberg has ways to try to shut that whole thing down."
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Re: Barefoot and Pregnant

Postby Friday » Thu Nov 30, 2017 10:49 pm

But on a more serious note, I learned about this facet of humankind a long time ago, so I'm sort of ahead of the curve when it comes to "why people minimize child rape."

It has occurred to me that maybe some of you may think from how I've talked in the past that I was raped as a kid.

No, thank god. My father was an abusive piece of shit, but the one time my creepy great uncle even joked about touching me, he immediately slammed him into a wall and told him in no uncertain terms that "get out, now, and if you ever show up at my house again, I will fucking pull your spine out through your asshole, and shit onto your corpse." And he meant it! I have no doubt that my dad would have brutally murdered that old man with absolutely zero moral shits given.

Yeah, my dad was okay with hitting kids, mocking kids, drinking and driving with kids in the car, and just generally being a repulsive awful human being even while sober, but even -he- knew that child rape was not okay, and not even okay to joke about.

So. If my 0.5/10 of a human father being knew that raping a kid isn't okay, why doesn't your average soccer mom?

That's complicated, and has to do with social stigma and shame!

See, people actually know that child rape is really fucking bad, like, pretty much the most bad, the worst bad, like if you murder a person you're bad but not as bad as if you rape a kid!

So when someone in their "tribe" does it (hollywood, my local church, the family, the democrats, the republicans, etc) they (and this is my theory as to why this happens) can't fucking handle it. On a like, mental level. Someone on my team did literally the worst thing? But that means my team isn't the best team in the world! Therefore, maybe they didn't do it. Maybe it wasn't, like, rape-rape. Sure, something bad happened, but you know what, it was the kids fault too, a little. Yeah. That's it. Now I don't have to examine if my tribalism/nationalism/political party bullshit is actually bullshit.
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Re: Barefoot and Pregnant

Postby Mongrel » Thu Nov 30, 2017 11:19 pm

I think it's so strange and amazing that now, after so many years and decades and even centuries of this being completely brushed away, it's finally being confronted head on.

And maybe this won't completely change things and many things done in the shadows will be shamefully kept there. But like, society at large actually saying, "Hey, so not only is this really not okay, but you're actually supposed to do something about it instead of turning a blind eye." is one of those wild somebody-pinch-me-is-this-really-happening? moments.
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Re: Barefoot and Pregnant

Postby Friday » Thu Nov 30, 2017 11:34 pm

It's a good sign, at least, and proof that despite Trump (and all the other nationalist shit happening worldwide) human beings can change for the better.
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Re: Barefoot and Pregnant

Postby Thad » Fri Dec 01, 2017 1:10 am

Somebody explained to me the other day -- and I don't have much Bible-Learnin', so this could be complete BS -- that when evangelicals look at sex, consent isn't really even part of the vocabulary; it's down to what's described as perversion in the Bible. Sex with children is a perversion, sex with animals is perversion, sex with family members is perversion, but also sex with a person of the same sex is perversion, and possibly an even greater perversion than those other perversions.

And of course yeah you've got a bunch of Biblical shit involving sex with slaves/teenagers/cousins/daughters (but like that wasn't Lot's fault because his daughters got him drunk and had their way with him) which is where you get some of the truly crazy justifications like "I always got permission from their mothers" and "but Mary was 14!"

But yeah, I think you're on to something; I think denial is a hell of a siren song.

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Re: Barefoot and Pregnant

Postby atog » Fri Dec 01, 2017 1:59 am

Thad wrote:Somebody explained to me the other day -- and I don't have much Bible-Learnin', so this could be complete BS -- that when evangelicals look at sex, consent isn't really even part of the vocabulary; it's down to what's described as perversion in the Bible. Sex with children is a perversion, sex with animals is perversion, sex with family members is perversion, but also sex with a person of the same sex is perversion, and possibly an even greater perversion than those other perversions.

And of course yeah you've got a bunch of Biblical shit involving sex with slaves/teenagers/cousins/daughters (but like that wasn't Lot's fault because his daughters got him drunk and had their way with him) which is where you get some of the truly crazy justifications like "I always got permission from their mothers" and "but Mary was 14!"

But yeah, I think you're on to something; I think denial is a hell of a siren song.

The terminology is different. Sex acts fall into three categories:

1) The natural right of man w/r/t the woman/women in his household

2) A perversion

3) An abomination.

1) a household might consist of an actual, physical household, or the extended definition of a household to mean a constituency, or a workplace. The only "consent" fundamentalists are concerned with are whether a man "can scent" her within grabbing distance

2) Incest, male adultery, pedophilia, bestiality, and sexual psychopathy go here. They are taboo, but in certain special circumstances they are allowed under God. For instance, if a man hears the voice of God speaking to him and saying, "Go forth and arrange for your nine year old daughter to be alone with you and the rest of the household to believe otherwise; then diddle her. Lather rinse repeat and I shall make sure her word is not to be believed." Or say, if God empowers the man to torture, bind, rape, disfigure, and kill people who have spurned God's law. (And the LORD said unto Dahmer, wilt thou make it look like an accident, and take only the outcasts of the herd, then wilt thou walk free among the flocks)

3) Abominations like same-sex relationships and women choosing to not have children. The transgressor shall be put to death. For it is God's law that a man not lie with a man (for it deprives a woman of the chance to suffer for the original sin), and women shall not try to forestall their biological duty, nor weasel out of the punishment and grinding poverty and misery and disastrous health consequences of Eve's original sin.

Here are some sarcasm tags to help you navigate this opinion, btw. [:^P] [/:^P] [:P] [/:P]
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Re: Barefoot and Pregnant

Postby Brentai » Fri Dec 01, 2017 3:54 am

Nobody doesn't believe this is wrong, but a lot of people believe that doing anything about it would be nothing but a detriment to them personally - and they're absolutely right.

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Re: Barefoot and Pregnant

Postby Mongrel » Fri Dec 01, 2017 4:14 am

What really intrigues me is the question about what's so different about now than any big previous scandal along similar lines?

I don't think Weinstein is actually that significant as an individual - Cosby, Polanski, Woody Allen, The horrific Thatcherite British child porn ring, R. Kelly (someone lock that man in a trunk, FFS), O'Reilly, pro athletes too numerous to name, Trump himself, and so many others before... all of these predated Weinstein and most were arguably more famous yet failed to trigger a similar watershed moment.

This time there was something else. The first and most obvious guess is that it's a response to the effects of Trump's being in power, and everything that means. But I can't say that for certain.
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Re: Barefoot and Pregnant

Postby Büge » Fri Dec 01, 2017 8:46 am

Mongrel wrote:This time there was something else. The first and most obvious guess is that it's a response to the effects of Trump's being in power, and everything that means. But I can't say that for certain.


The Mary Sue posited that this time there was three factors in play: the victims were famous, young, and "respectable".

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Re: Barefoot and Pregnant

Postby Mongrel » Fri Dec 01, 2017 2:36 pm

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Re: Barefoot and Pregnant

Postby Friday » Fri Dec 01, 2017 8:04 pm

Man, what is with all these gifted, genius Hollywood types leaving the country?
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Re: Barefoot and Pregnant

Postby Mongrel » Fri Dec 01, 2017 8:54 pm

I am shocked, shocked he's tardy in returning from a week of "medical treatment" abroad.
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Re: Barefoot and Pregnant

Postby Mongrel » Mon Dec 04, 2017 4:10 am

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Re: Barefoot and Pregnant

Postby Mongrel » Tue Dec 05, 2017 2:34 am

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Re: Barefoot and Pregnant

Postby Büge » Tue Dec 05, 2017 10:32 am

uh... why did you post that, exactly?

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Re: Barefoot and Pregnant

Postby Thad » Tue Dec 05, 2017 12:14 pm

John Oliver grills Dustin Hoffman over sexual harassment allegations

“Do you believe this stuff you read?” Hoffman asked.

“Yes,” Oliver replied. “Because there’s no point in [an accuser] lying.”

“Well, there’s a point in her not bringing it up for 40 years,” Hoffman said.

“Oh Dustin,” Oliver said disapprovingly, putting his head in his hand.


This is a good trend to see (though I imagine John Oliver probably won't be invited back to any film Q&A sessions). Ronan Farrow's spent quite a bit of time (well before he helped break the Weinstein allegations) criticizing journalists who are willing to, for example, sit down for an interview with Woody Allen and just agree they won't talk about his alleged child abuse.

Part of why predators have gotten a pass for so long is that not only have people not spoken up, but sometimes when people do speak up the press agrees just not to talk about it, in exchange for access. I think that's a big part of what happened with Bill Cosby; after the first round of allegations against him quieted down, he got to go back to work and reclaim his position as a beloved elder statesman of comedy. It took another decade before the allegations came back around and ruined his career.

The allegations against Hoffman aren't nearly as bad as the ones against Weinstein, Cosby, or Allen, of course, but they're all part of the same culture. And part of that culture has been a complicit press that's willing to lob softballs at celebrities. What's the expression? When you're a star, they let you do it.

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Re: Barefoot and Pregnant

Postby Mongrel » Tue Dec 05, 2017 1:07 pm

Büge wrote:uh... why did you post that, exactly?

Oh, just another random example of internet crazy.

It could just as easily have gone in another thread - hard to pin these down sometimes. Maybe we could use one specifically for general internet craziness or nuclear hot takes or whatever you want to call these sorts of things.
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Re: Barefoot and Pregnant

Postby Brentai » Tue Dec 05, 2017 1:31 pm

If nothing else this year should have the lasting effect of the Press no longer giving a flying fuck about capitulating for the promise of access. If they're paying attention they should realize it's a losing arrangement for them in the end.

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Re: Barefoot and Pregnant

Postby Mongrel » Tue Dec 05, 2017 1:34 pm

Conyers is out.
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