Oh shit, what are we gonna do now?

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beatbandito
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Re: Oh shit, what are we gonna do now?

Postby beatbandito » Fri Aug 10, 2018 1:05 pm

Yeah, sure, people who are willing to go through the time and struggle to immigrate legally may technically be the best thing we could have in the work force for the continued benefit of the country as a whole, but if they're using our resources at all right now it completely offsets that.

Anyway, I need to get back to twitter now to defend Elon Musk's use of government grants since he'll be the savior of humanity after there's enough time for his ideas and work to develop.
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Re: Oh shit, what are we gonna do now?

Postby Yoji » Sat Aug 11, 2018 11:53 am

I saw Malikial grumbling about the Space Farce on #finalfight, and I want to grumble too but that was like three hours ago.

The thing that gets me is... well, you remember Gravity? The Sandra Bullock movie where she's almost killed repeatedly by hypersonic space debris and every single satellite in orbit is turned to confetti? If I understand things right, that'll be the result of the very first shot fired in the first space war. I don't think anyone in their right mind would want that, but we did elect someone not in their right mind to run things...
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Büge
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Re: Oh shit, what are we gonna do now?

Postby Büge » Tue Aug 14, 2018 5:06 pm

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Mothra
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Re: Oh shit, what are we gonna do now?

Postby Mothra » Tue Aug 14, 2018 5:23 pm

Are you shitting me

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Thad
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Re: Oh shit, what are we gonna do now?

Postby Thad » Tue Aug 14, 2018 9:42 pm


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beatbandito
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Re: Oh shit, what are we gonna do now?

Postby beatbandito » Wed Aug 15, 2018 9:32 am

Obviously there are issues with that machine, and things like voting by phone are fucking miserable ideas but like, okay, what the point of that video?

So in about two minutes you can some-what noisily alter physical components of the machine and then... what? Add a thousand votes? Change votes? Steal the personal information of anyone who uses that machine in a way that is somehow easier than every other alternative? And these are things there is absolutely no way to notice after the fact? There's no network they're on that will notice if something changed on the machine? There's no person in the polling place to notice the louder and longer than usual voter also left the machine physically altered? How long does it take to go back from the root menu to the standard polling screen?

I guess I appreciate having a snapshot showing people that things are definitely not secure, and I'm not seeing this from the perspective of someone who doesn't get cold sweat from the mention of "voting by cell phone". But I tend to worry that when things like this steal the focus we end up with a push, and fix for just that one problem and not the real issues.
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Thad
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Re: Oh shit, what are we gonna do now?

Postby Thad » Wed Aug 15, 2018 10:42 am

beatbandito wrote:So in about two minutes you can some-what noisily alter physical components of the machine and then... what? Add a thousand votes? Change votes?


If you've got admin access, yes, presumably you can add, remove, or change votes.

Steal the personal information of anyone who uses that machine in a way that is somehow easier than every other alternative?


The voting machines probably don't store voters' personal information; that's handled separately. The vote count should be separated from the list of who's voted.

And these are things there is absolutely no way to notice after the fact? There's no network they're on that will notice if something changed on the machine?


I think it's very unlikely that there's such redundancy in place. The machine may keep logs of when the admin console has been accessed, but (1) someone with admin access can probably delete them, (2) people likely won't even check the logs unless they have reason to suspect something is amiss, and (3) even assuming they realize the votes have been tampered with, what do they do then? I'm guessing it doesn't come with a "restore votes to before the admin logged in" button.

There's no person in the polling place to notice the louder and longer than usual voter also left the machine physically altered?


Polling stations are typically staffed by volunteers. My grandma regularly works at the polls. She is in her late 80s and hard of hearing. I wouldn't expect her to notice a POST beep or recognize it if she heard it, and as far as I know staffers don't examine machines after every time somebody uses one.

How long does it take to go back from the root menu to the standard polling screen?


It looked like a pretty quick reboot from the main screen to the admin boot; I wouldn't expect it to take any longer the other way around.

Let's say the whole process -- compromise the machine, reboot, alter votes, reboot, put everything back together the way it was -- takes three minutes. I don't think that's likely to be enough extra time to arouse suspicion, especially in a crowded polling station. (You wouldn't do it in a sparsely-attended one, both because you'd attract more attention and because it would be more obvious that votes had been altered.)

And that's assuming attackers don't want their attacks to be discovered. What if they do? Remember, Putin's strategy is to sow chaos and doubt. How difficult would it be for a dozen or so people to compromise a handful of voting machines in different parts of the country and do it in a way that's obvious enough that people notice it? Poll workers notice the machines have been tampered with; it gets on the news. Now the narrative is "Russia hacked the election," and you've gone and undermined confidence in the entire election, even if you didn't alter a single vote.

I guess I appreciate having a snapshot showing people that things are definitely not secure, and I'm not seeing this from the perspective of someone who doesn't get cold sweat from the mention of "voting by cell phone". But I tend to worry that when things like this steal the focus we end up with a push, and fix for just that one problem and not the real issues.


In terms of mitigation, there are some pretty clear steps to shore up voting machine security.



If we're going to keep using electronic voting machines, that's the absolute minimum of precautions we need to put in place: make sure every single one of them prints out a voting sheet that is then put in a box and can be counted separately, and put more IT people on security to protect against shenanigans.

For my part, I'm pretty strongly in favor of going back to pen and paper. Some people need electronic voting machines for accessibility reasons, so we can't decommission them all. But my general belief is that if you're physically capable of using a pen and paper, that's how you should be voting.

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Mongrel
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Re: Oh shit, what are we gonna do now?

Postby Mongrel » Wed Aug 15, 2018 7:57 pm

Trump doesn't like dogs and dogs don't like him.

The goodest boys. They know who is a Bad Man.
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Büge
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Re: Oh shit, what are we gonna do now?

Postby Büge » Fri Aug 17, 2018 1:15 am

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Yoji
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Re: Oh shit, what are we gonna do now?

Postby Yoji » Fri Aug 17, 2018 1:53 am

Hell, I've wondered if I should go back to paper just for sensitive personal messages and data. Like, maybe the winning move is to not play. (It was interesting reading about ciphers and one-time pads, at least).

Mongrel wrote:Trump doesn't like dogs and dogs don't like him.

The goodest boys. They know who is a Bad Man.
I've heard that dogs rely on body language and none-verbal cues a lot more than humans, so you can't really fake things with them; like, if something's wrong, they're going to pick up on it. And Trump... well, he couldn't be less subtle if he were hopped up on truth serum.
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Romosome
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Re: Oh shit, what are we gonna do now?

Postby Romosome » Fri Aug 17, 2018 10:55 am

He's also a fucking coward and you can't make a dog back down with cheap insults, so your average wiener dog will immediately know he's lower in the pecking order.

Also probably smells like piss and cheap speed.

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Re: Oh shit, what are we gonna do now?

Postby Thad » Fri Aug 17, 2018 11:14 am

This Omarosa thing sure is...something, all right.

It's sure as shit not the most important thing in the news right now, but it's the shiny object that's got everybody's attention. She's a reality TV character just like Trump, and she's good at getting attention. I think she'll be good at keeping it, too; she may vanish in a news cycle or two, but I have a feeling she'll stick around for awhile. She's got a knack for working the press; the only other Trump critics who I think have come close are the Michaels Wolff and Avenatti.

This is the world we live in now.

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Thad
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Re: Oh shit, what are we gonna do now?

Postby Thad » Fri Aug 17, 2018 11:48 am

Romosome wrote:you can't make a dog back down with cheap insults


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Re: Oh shit, what are we gonna do now?

Postby Romosome » Fri Aug 17, 2018 12:01 pm

This is clearly staged Thad

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Re: Oh shit, what are we gonna do now?

Postby Thad » Mon Aug 20, 2018 10:17 pm

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Mongrel
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Re: Oh shit, what are we gonna do now?

Postby Mongrel » Tue Aug 21, 2018 4:10 pm

Breaking: Cohen just cut a plea deal.
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Re: Oh shit, what are we gonna do now?

Postby Mongrel » Tue Aug 21, 2018 6:07 pm

Also Breaking: MANAFORT FOUND GUILTY ON EIGHT COUNTS.

WOO HOOO MUTHAFUCKAAAA

EDIT:
In or about January 2017, COHEN left the Company and began holding himself out as the "personal attorney" to Individual-1, who at that point had become the President of the United States

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Re: Oh shit, what are we gonna do now?

Postby Mongrel » Tue Aug 21, 2018 6:43 pm

So Cohen's plea very clearly and unambiguously indicates that

*COHEN SAYS HE VIOLATED CAMPAIGN LAW AT DIRECTION OF CANDIDATE

*COHEN SAYS HE ACTED FOR PURPOSE OF INFLUENCING ELECTION

*COHEN VIOLATED CAMPAIGN LAW AT DIRECTION OF UNNAMED CANDIDATE


Trump has now been directly implicated, by the sworn testimony of an immediate accomplice, in a court of law.
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Re: Oh shit, what are we gonna do now?

Postby Rico » Wed Aug 22, 2018 2:54 am

UNNAMED CANDIDATE? Sure sounds like Crooked Hillary!!! Thanks, Witch Hunt!

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Re: Oh shit, what are we gonna do now?

Postby Friday » Wed Aug 22, 2018 3:03 am

I can't believe it's not Butter Emails
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