Computerus
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Mongrel
- Posts: 21336
- Joined: Mon Jan 20, 2014 6:28 pm
- Location: There's winners and there's losers // And I'm south of that line
Re: Computerus
Man, I don't even know what to think of as a "midrange" price on GPUs these days anyway.
Re: Computerus
Well, supply chain issues and crypto demand aren't driving prices up anymore, but inflation is, so...looks like mostly $300-500?
Re: Computerus
Welp, about that time again. I've been meaning to rebuild my HTPC for awhile now and I don't know if post-Christmas sales are really a thing in PC parts but it's about time I started keeping an eye out for deals.
What I've gathered so far:
RX 6800 > RX 6700 XT > RX 6700 = RX 6650 XT > RX 5700
6800's too rich for my blood. 5700's what I've got in my main and it's fine, but given that you can get a 6650 XT for less that's probably the baseline. So probably either a 6650 XT or a 6700 XT. The cheapest 6650 XT on PCPartPicker is currently $285 and the cheapest 6700 XT is $360.
The "G" range of processors are the ones with onboard graphics. I won't be using onboard graphics but they don't benchmark too much worse than the non-G version of the same processor, so it may be worth it to go with a G card since they cost significantly less. If I want to fuck around with overclocking, the G range can be overclocked but the X range is designed for it. I don't know how much I actually want to fuck around with overclocking. 5700G might be the way to go, but then again it's less than $20 to go from there to 5700X at the moment. (I think I saw a 5600G for about $100 yesterday which would have been a hell of a deal, but today they're back up to $125. Which is still pretty good.)
The case I'm going to put it all in is a Silverstone SST-GD08B and I'll want to check the dimensions to make sure everything will fit. My notes from when I set it up suggest that it should be able to fit a full-length graphics card as long as I leave one of the 3.5" bays empty, which shouldn't be a problem, but I probably want to double-check on that. Will want to check the power supply and the RAM, too, to see if I can stick with those or need to upgrade. I think the old HTPC has DDR4 I can reuse, but I don't remember the wattage of the PSU.
The last MB I bought was an ASUS TUF Gaming X570-PRO (Grath's recommendation IIRC). I'm probably fine just getting another one of those, since I'm planning on sticking with the 5000 series on the CPU, but I'll look around a bit and see if there's a better option.
Then there's the question of whether I should do a fresh OS install or just stick with the one I've got. AIUI it's not that difficult to hook up the same boot drive to a new computer and have it work; since I'm going from Intel to AMD it's probably going to require booting to USB and reinstalling the bootloader, but it sounds like a pretty straightforward process.
I think I'll probably do that. While it might be useful to start fresh and without all the cruft I've accumulated over the years, I've spent a hell of a lot of time setting this thing up and I do not find the thought of having to do all that over again appealing.
What I've gathered so far:
RX 6800 > RX 6700 XT > RX 6700 = RX 6650 XT > RX 5700
6800's too rich for my blood. 5700's what I've got in my main and it's fine, but given that you can get a 6650 XT for less that's probably the baseline. So probably either a 6650 XT or a 6700 XT. The cheapest 6650 XT on PCPartPicker is currently $285 and the cheapest 6700 XT is $360.
The "G" range of processors are the ones with onboard graphics. I won't be using onboard graphics but they don't benchmark too much worse than the non-G version of the same processor, so it may be worth it to go with a G card since they cost significantly less. If I want to fuck around with overclocking, the G range can be overclocked but the X range is designed for it. I don't know how much I actually want to fuck around with overclocking. 5700G might be the way to go, but then again it's less than $20 to go from there to 5700X at the moment. (I think I saw a 5600G for about $100 yesterday which would have been a hell of a deal, but today they're back up to $125. Which is still pretty good.)
The case I'm going to put it all in is a Silverstone SST-GD08B and I'll want to check the dimensions to make sure everything will fit. My notes from when I set it up suggest that it should be able to fit a full-length graphics card as long as I leave one of the 3.5" bays empty, which shouldn't be a problem, but I probably want to double-check on that. Will want to check the power supply and the RAM, too, to see if I can stick with those or need to upgrade. I think the old HTPC has DDR4 I can reuse, but I don't remember the wattage of the PSU.
The last MB I bought was an ASUS TUF Gaming X570-PRO (Grath's recommendation IIRC). I'm probably fine just getting another one of those, since I'm planning on sticking with the 5000 series on the CPU, but I'll look around a bit and see if there's a better option.
Then there's the question of whether I should do a fresh OS install or just stick with the one I've got. AIUI it's not that difficult to hook up the same boot drive to a new computer and have it work; since I'm going from Intel to AMD it's probably going to require booting to USB and reinstalling the bootloader, but it sounds like a pretty straightforward process.
I think I'll probably do that. While it might be useful to start fresh and without all the cruft I've accumulated over the years, I've spent a hell of a lot of time setting this thing up and I do not find the thought of having to do all that over again appealing.
Re: Computerus
NewEgg's got a deal on a 6750 XT, $50 off with a promo code and another $20 available as a rebate. That knocks it down from $450 to $380. Which ordinarily would still be too rich for my blood, but work sent me a $500 gift card for Christmas, so I decided to splurge a little.
Aside: if you've got a US Bank rewards card, at least one of the ones where you can check your balance at usbankrewards.com, you can find the billing address under "Register/Update Card". In my case it was
15710 JFK BLVD STE 500
Houston,
Texas 77032
which I finally found after about half an hour of flailing around trying to figure out what address to use so the charge wouldn't get declined.
Going to need a new power supply, too; the one I've got in there is only 550W. I'm looking at a Corsair RM850x.
Still need to figure out the processor and motherboard. I'm looking at probably a Ryzen 7 and an X570 board, but I'm finding it a little tricky to navigate since a lot of those boards (like the Asus I bought last year) aren't available anymore. Kind of a tricky time to be buying AMD; the X570 series is out of date and being phased out, but the X670 series is brand new and wildly overpriced.
Aside: if you've got a US Bank rewards card, at least one of the ones where you can check your balance at usbankrewards.com, you can find the billing address under "Register/Update Card". In my case it was
15710 JFK BLVD STE 500
Houston,
Texas 77032
which I finally found after about half an hour of flailing around trying to figure out what address to use so the charge wouldn't get declined.
Going to need a new power supply, too; the one I've got in there is only 550W. I'm looking at a Corsair RM850x.
Still need to figure out the processor and motherboard. I'm looking at probably a Ryzen 7 and an X570 board, but I'm finding it a little tricky to navigate since a lot of those boards (like the Asus I bought last year) aren't available anymore. Kind of a tricky time to be buying AMD; the X570 series is out of date and being phased out, but the X670 series is brand new and wildly overpriced.
Re: Computerus
Thad wrote:I'm looking at probably a Ryzen 7 and an X570 board, but I'm finding it a little tricky to navigate since a lot of those boards (like the Asus I bought last year) aren't available anymore.
Found it at B&H: ASUS TUF Gaming X570-PRO Wi-Fi AM4 ATX Motherboard
I may have gotten the last one, because it's now listed as out of stock. At any rate, I looked at breakdowns of X570 boards until my eyes bled and decided to go with a known quantity. Cost the same as when I bought one a year and a half ago, which is irritating, but price drops ain't what they used to be. It's a reasonably fully-featured X570 board for a lower price than other boards with the same feature set; it's got 3 M.2 slots, BIOS flashback, and an Intel network chipset.
Also, protip: B&H will let you split an order across up to 3 credit cards. It's a handy damn place to shop if you've got a stack of debit cards you're trying to thin out.
I ordered everything else from NewEgg. There's the aforementioned 6750 XT, and I opted for a Ryzen 5700X. For the power supply I wound up getting a Corsair RM1000e, which is smaller than the 850W model I was looking for and doesn't have as many slots, but it's a 1000W model for $10 less than the 850W one (once I deal with the requisite/annoying NewEgg rebate process). I expect it'll keep me a good long while. I think it should still have enough ports to power everything I've got, and if it doesn't, well, having to buy some splitter cables isn't the end of the world.
Other'n that, I'm sticking with the drives, case, and RAM I've already got.
Re: Computerus
THIS BOX INCLUDES AN AMD RYZEN™ PROCESSOR AND INSTALLATION INSTRUCTIONS.
THERMAL SOLUTION SOLD SEPARATELY.
oh god dammit
Re: Computerus
Yeah, the hell of it is that the 5600X I got a year and a half ago came with a heatsink and fan. The 5700X doesn't, despite being a more expensive, higher-end CPU.
But I decided to check and see if there's a way to reuse the Noctua NH-L9i I've already got in my HTPC and mount it on an AMD A4 board, and it appears that yes, there's a mounting bracket for that, the NM-AM4-L9aL9i kit. From what I've read it's not a hugely better cooler than the Wraith Stealth that came stock with my 5600X, but it's slightly cooler and slightly quieter and I've already got one, so I opted to go for the new mounting kit rather than a new cooler.
But I decided to check and see if there's a way to reuse the Noctua NH-L9i I've already got in my HTPC and mount it on an AMD A4 board, and it appears that yes, there's a mounting bracket for that, the NM-AM4-L9aL9i kit. From what I've read it's not a hugely better cooler than the Wraith Stealth that came stock with my 5600X, but it's slightly cooler and slightly quieter and I've already got one, so I opted to go for the new mounting kit rather than a new cooler.
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Mongrel
- Posts: 21336
- Joined: Mon Jan 20, 2014 6:28 pm
- Location: There's winners and there's losers // And I'm south of that line
Re: Computerus
Yeah, I've been surprised at just how many adapter kits there are for heatsinks and cooling fans, which we discovered when keeping Starr's old computer limping along before she got the new one. Pretty wild.
Re: Computerus
Yeah, it makes good financial sense, though. Processors change but the physics of heat dissipation don't; the new coolers are probably mostly going to be the old coolers but with new mounting brackets, and since they're already mass-producing them there's no reason they can't sell the mounting brackets separately.
And if it's a choice between a $12 AMD cooler and a $40 Noctua cooler, I'm getting the AMD one, but if it's a choice between a $12 AMD cooler and a $9 mounting bracket for the $40 Noctua cooler I already bought, I'm getting the bracket. And I conclude the transaction with more positive feelings toward Noctua and less positive ones toward AMD, and knowing that I can reuse a Noctua cooler makes me more likely to spend the extra money on one next time I'm in the market.
(There's actually a third option -- I could open up my main, pop the stock AMD cooler off my 5600X, replace that with the gigantic CoolerMaster that will fit in my tower but won't fit in my HTPC, and put the AMD cooler in the HTPC -- but that's a lot of extra work and still might require a new mounting bracket.)
And if it's a choice between a $12 AMD cooler and a $40 Noctua cooler, I'm getting the AMD one, but if it's a choice between a $12 AMD cooler and a $9 mounting bracket for the $40 Noctua cooler I already bought, I'm getting the bracket. And I conclude the transaction with more positive feelings toward Noctua and less positive ones toward AMD, and knowing that I can reuse a Noctua cooler makes me more likely to spend the extra money on one next time I'm in the market.
(There's actually a third option -- I could open up my main, pop the stock AMD cooler off my 5600X, replace that with the gigantic CoolerMaster that will fit in my tower but won't fit in my HTPC, and put the AMD cooler in the HTPC -- but that's a lot of extra work and still might require a new mounting bracket.)
Re: Computerus
And we've reached the point in the build process where I press the power button and nothing happens, and then I try shorting the pins with a screwdriver and nothing still happens, and I am wise enough at this point in my life to decide that I am done for tonight and will pick this up tomorrow.
Re: Computerus
So this is inexplicable to me but maybe somebody who knows more about electrical engineering can explain it to me:
The Corsair power supply works with the MB power cable that was bundled with it, but not with the MB power cable that my previous EVGA power supply came with.
They're both modular power supplies and the cables have the same connectors on the ends, but apparently they use a different pinout. My first clue was when I looked up Corsair PSU testing info and it told me to short pins 16 and 17 to test it without connecting it to a motherboard.
The EVGA PS came with a tester -- just a cap for the 24-pin connector that shorts 2 pins -- but the pins it shorts are 15 and 16.
So after a bit of fucking around, I tried connecting the Corsair to the MB with the cable it came with, instead of the one I already had in the case, and it seems to work fine.
Again, this is inexplicable to me -- the connectors look the same, they're interchangeable, and each one works when connected to the MB at one end and the PSU it came with at the other, but use the wrong cable and it won't work.
Anyway, fucked if I know why that is, but now I know in case I ever encounter this problem again. And now you know, too. I won't definitively say "don't reuse your MB power cable in a new build", because running cables through a case can be a hassle, and maybe it will work (especially if you're sticking with the same brand of PSU). But if a new build won't power on, that's an easy thing to check. ETA Mazian is right, this is the kind of thing that could fry your components, so after additional consideration I am saying swap out all your power cables when you swap out a power supply. MB, drives, graphics card, everything.
The Corsair power supply works with the MB power cable that was bundled with it, but not with the MB power cable that my previous EVGA power supply came with.
They're both modular power supplies and the cables have the same connectors on the ends, but apparently they use a different pinout. My first clue was when I looked up Corsair PSU testing info and it told me to short pins 16 and 17 to test it without connecting it to a motherboard.
The EVGA PS came with a tester -- just a cap for the 24-pin connector that shorts 2 pins -- but the pins it shorts are 15 and 16.
So after a bit of fucking around, I tried connecting the Corsair to the MB with the cable it came with, instead of the one I already had in the case, and it seems to work fine.
Again, this is inexplicable to me -- the connectors look the same, they're interchangeable, and each one works when connected to the MB at one end and the PSU it came with at the other, but use the wrong cable and it won't work.
Anyway, fucked if I know why that is, but now I know in case I ever encounter this problem again. And now you know, too. I won't definitively say "don't reuse your MB power cable in a new build", because running cables through a case can be a hassle, and maybe it will work (especially if you're sticking with the same brand of PSU). But if a new build won't power on, that's an easy thing to check. ETA Mazian is right, this is the kind of thing that could fry your components, so after additional consideration I am saying swap out all your power cables when you swap out a power supply. MB, drives, graphics card, everything.
Re: Computerus
The pinouts at the PSU end of modular power cables are not standardized, not necessarily even across different models from the same manufacturer. Changing PSUs should always include changing all the cables. You're fortunate it didn't blow anything out.
Re: Computerus
Fun. Guess I need to separate my spare cables and make sure they're stored with their respective power supplies, too.
Going to be a pain in the ass for running the cables in the case, too. The old PSU came with cables that were braided and sleeved; this one did not.
Going to be a pain in the ass for running the cables in the case, too. The old PSU came with cables that were braided and sleeved; this one did not.
Re: Computerus
The big thing I'm noticing about the MS Ergo after a year of use is that the keys are starting to stick. I've been using various MS Natural keyboards for about 25 years and this has never been an issue with the previous models.
I should probably blow the sucker out and see if that makes a difference.
I should probably blow the sucker out and see if that makes a difference.
Re: Computerus
Even allowing for that unfortunate business with the power cables, this was one of the smoothest experiences I've had with a new build. Swapping out your motherboard really is pretty straightforward in Linux; it was about what my research said it was, booting from USB and reinstalling the bootloader. Some weirdness with the Btrfs RAID array I use to store my media, but I'll chalk that up to general Btrfs weirdness.
As of right now the biggest problem I'm having is that surround sound isn't working anymore. Too early yet to tell whether it's because of the new hardware or because I changed the wiring (it used to be PC -> audio receiver -> TV, but I changed it to PC -> TV -> audio receiver because the receiver doesn't support FreeSync); something to figure out later.
Haven't had much chance to play any games on it yet but I played a little Yakuza 0 and it ran silky smooth at 1920x1080x120fps with graphics settings at Ultra.
I'm 1 for 2 on claiming the free games that I'm supposed to get with my AMD hardware purchases. They have a Linux script to detect your hardware and confirm that you're using something that's eligible for the reward you're claiming; the one for the processor worked fine, but the one for the graphics card kept failing. I put a help request in; hopefully that'll get it resolved.
As of right now the biggest problem I'm having is that surround sound isn't working anymore. Too early yet to tell whether it's because of the new hardware or because I changed the wiring (it used to be PC -> audio receiver -> TV, but I changed it to PC -> TV -> audio receiver because the receiver doesn't support FreeSync); something to figure out later.
Haven't had much chance to play any games on it yet but I played a little Yakuza 0 and it ran silky smooth at 1920x1080x120fps with graphics settings at Ultra.
I'm 1 for 2 on claiming the free games that I'm supposed to get with my AMD hardware purchases. They have a Linux script to detect your hardware and confirm that you're using something that's eligible for the reward you're claiming; the one for the processor worked fine, but the one for the graphics card kept failing. I put a help request in; hopefully that'll get it resolved.
Re: Computerus
Thad wrote:Then there's the question of whether I should do a fresh OS install or just stick with the one I've got. AIUI it's not that difficult to hook up the same boot drive to a new computer and have it work; since I'm going from Intel to AMD it's probably going to require booting to USB and reinstalling the bootloader, but it sounds like a pretty straightforward process.
I think I'll probably do that. While it might be useful to start fresh and without all the cruft I've accumulated over the years, I've spent a hell of a lot of time setting this thing up and I do not find the thought of having to do all that over again appealing.
It mostly worked fine but somehow now every time I do a kernel update I have to boot from a USB dongle and reinstall initramfs and GRUB.
I'm baffled as to why. It's three commands; if I execute them from my system before a reboot, I end up in a non-bootable state (trying to load the EFI partition before loading the module to read a vfat filesystem), whereas if I boot to a memory stick, mount the appropriate partitions, chroot, and then run the same three commands, everything works fine on my next reboot.
I've got it down to a workaround that takes under 10 minutes, so on the whole it's still less fucking around than if I'd done a clean install, but it's still frustrating and I'm sure there has to be a better way which I haven't quite cracked yet.
Re: Computerus
You know what, I think the experience I just had justifies a post in this thread.
I'm about to go to bed, when I check my phone and notice an email saying my 128GB RAM kit has been delivered. Bring the package inside for safety when the devil on my shoulder whispers in my ear "Changing out RAM is stupid easy! Why not take fifteen minutes and go to bed with some fresh satisfaction?"
So I go to use my desktop from its keyboard for the first time in a week, and discover that it's main display is coming up all black. Spend an hour and change trying to figure out if windows has somehow got the configuration fucked, or if the cable died, when it finally occurs to me to check if the Switch can get a picture through. Turns out it was a software issue -- with the Roku TV. Fortunately rebooting the TV fixed it (once I figured out how.)
So now I can finally shut the computer down and get to the gritty of swapping the RAM. First thing first, gotta take the old RAM. out. Oh shit, it looks like I might need to take my GPU out momentarily to get access to the first RAM slot. Unplug the HDMI cable in preparation... then realize I don't actually need access to area that the GPU is blocking. Okay, got the two 16GB DIMMs out. In go the four new 32GB DIMMs. Make sure I hear a click on each one. Turn the PC back on. It's booting. I wait for the display to notice it has a signal...
Waiting... waiting... the PC reboots. I frantically start hitting del to get to the UEFI setup and then remember I never plugged the HDMI back in after realizing I didn't need to remove the GPU. Okay I have a screen. I'm in the UEFI setup. Double-check the specs on my new RAM and lower the voltage from 1.35V to 1.20V. Save and exit.
System boot hangs before I can even get to the UEFI menu... Cue two more hours of debugging to figure out a DIMM/slot combo that works. System will boot with new RAM in slots x2x4, 12xx, or 12x4. Will not boot with new ram in slots 123x. Will not boot with new ram in 1234. Also won't boot if I swap the stick in slot 4 for the one that had been in slot 3. Will boot with new ram in 124 and old ram in 3.
So for the moment my desktop has 112GB RAM, and I took four and a half hours to go to bed with quite some fresh frustration.
I'm about to go to bed, when I check my phone and notice an email saying my 128GB RAM kit has been delivered. Bring the package inside for safety when the devil on my shoulder whispers in my ear "Changing out RAM is stupid easy! Why not take fifteen minutes and go to bed with some fresh satisfaction?"
So I go to use my desktop from its keyboard for the first time in a week, and discover that it's main display is coming up all black. Spend an hour and change trying to figure out if windows has somehow got the configuration fucked, or if the cable died, when it finally occurs to me to check if the Switch can get a picture through. Turns out it was a software issue -- with the Roku TV. Fortunately rebooting the TV fixed it (once I figured out how.)
So now I can finally shut the computer down and get to the gritty of swapping the RAM. First thing first, gotta take the old RAM. out. Oh shit, it looks like I might need to take my GPU out momentarily to get access to the first RAM slot. Unplug the HDMI cable in preparation... then realize I don't actually need access to area that the GPU is blocking. Okay, got the two 16GB DIMMs out. In go the four new 32GB DIMMs. Make sure I hear a click on each one. Turn the PC back on. It's booting. I wait for the display to notice it has a signal...
Waiting... waiting... the PC reboots. I frantically start hitting del to get to the UEFI setup and then remember I never plugged the HDMI back in after realizing I didn't need to remove the GPU. Okay I have a screen. I'm in the UEFI setup. Double-check the specs on my new RAM and lower the voltage from 1.35V to 1.20V. Save and exit.
System boot hangs before I can even get to the UEFI menu... Cue two more hours of debugging to figure out a DIMM/slot combo that works. System will boot with new RAM in slots x2x4, 12xx, or 12x4. Will not boot with new ram in slots 123x. Will not boot with new ram in 1234. Also won't boot if I swap the stick in slot 4 for the one that had been in slot 3. Will boot with new ram in 124 and old ram in 3.
So for the moment my desktop has 112GB RAM, and I took four and a half hours to go to bed with quite some fresh frustration.
How fleeting are all human passions compared with the massive continuity of ducks.
Re: Computerus
In all my years working on computers -- whether hardware or software -- the single most valuable skill I have learned is knowing when to go to bed and come back tomorrow.
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