Obituaries

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Mongrel
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Re: Obituaries

Postby Mongrel » Wed Nov 10, 2021 11:55 pm

Not 100% confirmed yet, but yeah looks like this time it's real. Might've been suicide, but like everything else that's also unconfirmed.

Not surprising if true. The alcoholism, substance abuse, obesity, ego, untreated mental health catastrophes, alleged anti-vax stance, or just being a complete shithead were gonna get him in the end. Well, those, or Ewe Boll.

Incidentally, reading SA in 2021 feels fucking weird as hell.
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Niku
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Re: Obituaries

Postby Niku » Thu Nov 11, 2021 11:02 am

here gonna write the nicer version of this post

According to one of his exes, he tried to spend enough of his money that he wouldn't have to pay divorce settlements. It didn't work. He died of suicide. The end.
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Friday
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Re: Obituaries

Postby Friday » Thu Nov 11, 2021 12:15 pm

I watched the 2019 Scorsese masterpiece "The Irishman" recently. It's a more than 3 hour long absolute tour de force that absolutely earns and wrings every drop out of its immense runtime. It's on Netflix, highly, highly, highly recommended.

At the end of the movie, we watch as all the (surviving) old gangster characters die in prison of health issues. Everything they did and accomplished seems distant and remote, and even pointless. Their work is gone, the world they lived in is gone. Nobody even remembers or knows who Jimmy Hoffa was, much less them. Their money doesn't matter. They have nothing left, and die pathetically.
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mharr
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Re: Obituaries

Postby mharr » Thu Nov 11, 2021 1:13 pm

They're not a culture rich in self care are they.

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Mongrel
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Re: Obituaries

Postby Mongrel » Thu Nov 11, 2021 1:56 pm

The gangsters who do live to a ripe old age, sometimes even retiring along the way (yes, it does happen), are not people anyone would ever make a movie about.

Though the survivors do tend to unironically enjoy the movies about the non-survivors, the good (i.e. accurate) ones anyway. I guess you'd call it a bit of vicarious solidarity.
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Re: Obituaries

Postby Thad » Thu Nov 11, 2021 2:05 pm

Mongrel wrote:The gangsters who do live to a ripe old age, sometimes even retiring along the way (yes, it does happen), are not people anyone would ever make a movie about.

I think it was Charles Stross who said there are three types of criminals.

The first and most common type is people who act rashly, who don't plan to commit a criminal act at all but do so in the heat of the moment without thinking it through.

The second type is people who plan in advance, who do some risk assessment, but aren't very good at it and underestimate the risk that they're going to get caught.

The third type is people who plan in advance, do risk assessment, and are good at it, who think they most likely won't be caught and are right. And by definition, this type of criminal usually doesn't get caught.

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Mongrel
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Re: Obituaries

Postby Mongrel » Thu Nov 11, 2021 2:11 pm

One thing to add is that a big difference between the second and third is greed.

An inability to keep their hand out of the cookie jar can make someone shift from being the third type to the second.
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mharr
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Re: Obituaries

Postby mharr » Thu Nov 11, 2021 3:23 pm

There's a far more dangerous category outside the scope of that list, of people who believe criminality doesn't apply to them, that their inherent superiority or higher calling allows them to operate above the law. We should probably stop proving them right.

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Re: Obituaries

Postby Thad » Thu Nov 11, 2021 5:47 pm

mharr wrote:There's a far more dangerous category outside the scope of that list, of people who believe criminality doesn't apply to them, that their inherent superiority or higher calling allows them to operate above the law. We should probably stop proving them right.

If they're right, then they're category 3.

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Re: Obituaries

Postby Upthorn » Thu Nov 11, 2021 7:27 pm

mharr is talking about people like Trump, Kyle Rittenhouse, the white supremacists who terrorized Charlottesville, cops in general, and the Jan 6th insurrectionists.

People who believe that "criminal" is a category you're born into, rather than a reputation you earn through actions. They commit crimes openly without thinking about it, get caught, and face minor consequences like "2 months probation," "having to show up at trial," or "doesn't win reelection, isn't reinstalled by coup."
How fleeting are all human passions compared with the massive continuity of ducks.

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Re: Obituaries

Postby Thad » Thu Nov 11, 2021 7:34 pm

And I'm saying that would be a subset of "people who don't think they're likely to face consequences for their crimes, and are right."

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Re: Obituaries

Postby Upthorn » Thu Nov 11, 2021 7:41 pm

No. Facing even the extremely minor consequences they get is shocking and outrageous to them. They don't think they're even doing anything wrong. Or rather, they think that "wrong" is an immutable state, and not a matter of "doing." They continually get proven wrong by their own standards, but immune to consequence by the standards of the world at large.

Category three is "people who plan well, assess and avoid risks, and generally don't get caught."
Category four is "people who act impulsively, get caught, and let off with a warning."
How fleeting are all human passions compared with the massive continuity of ducks.

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Re: Obituaries

Postby Thad » Thu Nov 11, 2021 7:43 pm

If they're acting rashly and without thinking, and are divorced from the idea that they're going to face consequences at all, then they're category one.

Category-one people frequently get away with things too. Partly due to inherent biases in the legal system and partly due to sheer numbers.

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Mongrel
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Re: Obituaries

Postby Mongrel » Thu Nov 11, 2021 7:51 pm

I don't think we really have to get dogmatic about Charlie Stross' offhand trinary generalization.
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Thad
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Re: Obituaries

Postby Thad » Thu Nov 11, 2021 7:52 pm

Mongrel wrote:I don't think we really have to get dogmatic about Charlie Stross' offhand trinary generalization.


Yeah, you're right. Whether or not a given example falls into one of those categories isn't the point; the point is, mharr and Upthorn are absolutely right that there are people who believe "criminal" is a state of being, not a result of actions. Saw a pointed tweet to that effect the other day; I'll see if I can dig it up.

ETA this was it:


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Mongrel
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Re: Obituaries

Postby Mongrel » Thu Nov 11, 2021 8:25 pm

That was also true for most of the Victorian world - think of all the old literature and pseudoscience that talks about "the criminal mind" and all that, it wasn't just the English-speaking countries that did that. It's a very old concept.

Then if you follow the thread of that thinking, there's a direct trail from there straight to early 20th century eugenics movements.

Eventually, some countries moved on. Some didn't.

EDIT:

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Re: Obituaries

Postby Büge » Thu Nov 11, 2021 9:49 pm

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mharr
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Re: Obituaries

Postby mharr » Thu Nov 11, 2021 9:52 pm

Alpha and beta type threes. Which is which shall be left open as a personality test for the reader.

Should this be in a separate thread or is charging off into the weeds the most appropriate reaction we could have?

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Mongrel
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Re: Obituaries

Postby Mongrel » Thu Nov 11, 2021 10:08 pm

Büge wrote:

Yep. Wild - and true.

That's the world we got.
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mharr
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Re: Obituaries

Postby mharr » Thu Nov 11, 2021 10:22 pm

I'd just like to clarify that 4chan's inception was prompted by SA banning child porn specifically, not just hentai in general.

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