Literal Homosexual Steamroller

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Re: Literal Homosexual Steamroller

Postby Classic » Thu Mar 27, 2014 11:45 am

Brentai wrote:Somehow, I don't think you've thought your cunning plan all the way through.

It seems pretty reasonable to someone who's really short of sleep. Maybe you need to gun for a promotion or finish your Xenogears LP? Then maybe you'll understand.

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Re: Literal Homosexual Steamroller

Postby sei » Thu Mar 27, 2014 5:54 pm

If one guy prefers to be called one thing and another guy prefers to be called another thing, there's nothing wrong with switching up your choice of nomenclature depending on which one you're talking to and which term he prefers.

There's nothing wrong with it. The audience is what matters.

Here's the thing, though.

There are many people out there, each with disparate preferences. It is impractical to always use the preferred term in front of the right audience.

Some Corner Cases
  • When addressing 2+ parties who do not agree on the right term, it's impossible to use the preferred term for both. Whatever; default to societal norm.
  • When dealing with a single stranger, you have to run with your best assessment of modern, societally-preferred nomenclature. If their preference mistmatches the societal norm, you're now obligated to make and hold a mental note to use that term through the course of the conversation.
  • Take the case of interacting with an infrequent contacts who prefer a term other than the societal default. You're presumably obligated to have stored the mental note long enough to use the right term. This is difficult and potentially grating in proportion to the frequency, significance, and prickliness of the contact.
I'm sure I missed a few.

It hopefully goes without saying that I'm not defending hate speech.

What I'm getting at is that an expectation to tiptoe around trigger words/phrasesespecially when those terms are medically accurate or societally accepted—can be intrusive, tiring, and stifling.

Compulsory accommodation like that causes friction.

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Re: Literal Homosexual Steamroller

Postby sei » Thu Mar 27, 2014 6:19 pm

Thad wrote:Explaining where a term comes from and why you didn't consider it offensive can be useful in helping to reach understanding too, but it doesn't mean the other party is wrong for not liking it.

Brings to mind that scene in Louis explaining the toxic etymology of faggot (skip 5min in). That said, words' meanings and intents change.

Thad wrote:"I like to be told when I say something that's accidentally offensive, so that I can avoid it in the future. If I'm going to offend someone, I want to make sure it's on purpose."
That's a cool share. I managed to track down the post.

Neil Gaiman, Mourning Suit and Green Goddess (2009) wrote:
A Fan of Neil Gaiman wrote:Hi Neil,

Just reading your latest blog entry in which someone complained about your use of "British Isles", and went on to talk about how Ireland is not part of the British Isles anymore, and there was perhaps a mention of vikings, too.

I would just like to apologise on behalf of Ireland for this pointless correction. Of course, Ireland is not part of Great Britain, but as the British Isles are a geographical name for both Ireland and the UK, I highly doubt Ireland will be renouncing itself as being among them anytime soon - as doing so would involve actually moving to a different place on Earth.

I would also like to apologise for wasting your time with *this* comment, but I felt quite strongly about it.

Thank you. Actually, I liked learning that there are people who consider the term insulting. I don't think you should ever insult people unintentionally: if you're doing it, you ought to mean it.

Something else, on a similar note, that rings somewhat true for me: wrote:
A Fan of Neil Gaiman wrote:How did you come up with the idea of "Good Omens" and do you ever get worried about offending people with you're writing. (The reason I'm asking is because I was reading it in school, and some girl came up to me and told me I was going to hell because I was reading heretic's work. Long story short it ended with me staring at her until she walked off, and Nerd being written on my locker.)

I am proud of you.

No, I don’t get worried about offending people when I’m writing. I worry about telling the story as honestly as I can.

If there is a God, I do not believe he, she or it, would ever send someone to Hell for reading Good Omens, or any funny book with ideas in it; but if you do get sent to Hell for reading books like Good Omens, I’m not sure that you’d want to posthumously end up anywhere else…

I strive to speak and write precisely. Obstacles to this irritate me.

Shielding language discards meaning. E.g., "stupid" is more specific than "has special needs;" someone who is deaf and perfectly intelligent has unusual needs.

There are also a lot shitty appropriations of words with similar effect. Take "Asian," whose geographical target in modern American usage is a small sliver of the region specified in the dictionary. Definitions changing is part of life. The transition period can be obnoxious, though.

This isn't really what Gaiman was getting at, but it doesn't feel that far off.

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Spooky Skeleton
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Re: Literal Homosexual Steamroller

Postby Spooky Skeleton » Sat Nov 28, 2015 5:06 am

I wasn't sure where to post this, so please move it if there's a better thread for it.

The story of how the grand daughter of the founder of the Westboro Baptist Church and one of it's most public figures, Megan Phelps-Roper, lost her faith in the church and left. It's comforting to see that what made her leave was love and empathy. I think her life serves as an interesting cautionary tale about the general idea of how we often don't realize what is wrong with our own society or culture until things go bad or something happens to call it into question for us.

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Re: Literal Homosexual Steamroller

Postby Mongrel » Sat Nov 28, 2015 10:03 am

A friend of mine sent me that a whole back. I can echo Geo's comments on it; it's a really good read.

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