Edjumacation

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Thad
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Re: Edjumacation

Postby Thad » Thu Oct 21, 2021 11:34 am

Upthorn wrote:
Thad wrote:"Don't be an asshole, because people won't listen to you" is good advice. But so is "Don't reject facts just because they're stated impolitely."

"Don't be an asshole, because people won't listen to you" is better advice, because it generally requires only that the person you're advising change their in order to be useful.

"Don't reject facts just because they're stated impolitely." generally requires that all of society change in order for it to be useful.

I don't really follow your reasoning here.

In either example, you're identifying a problem that exists society-wide, but you're appealing to individuals to change their behavior.

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Upthorn
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Re: Edjumacation

Postby Upthorn » Thu Oct 21, 2021 12:31 pm

A speaker who changes their behavior is more likely to be listened to: one person changing their behavior results in multiple people who are now able to accept information.
A listener who changes their behavior is more likely to listen: one person changing their behavior results in one person who is now able to accept information.
How fleeting are all human passions compared with the massive continuity of ducks.

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Thad
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Re: Edjumacation

Postby Thad » Thu Oct 21, 2021 1:43 pm

You're making a number of assumptions there, one of which is that the two things don't have significant overlap.

And what's your threshold for determining whether or not the advice is "useful"? How many people does it have to influence? Why is it that accepting impolitely-described facts is only "useful" if "all of society" does it, but all it takes for "don't be an asshole because people won't listen to you" to be "useful" advice is for a single person to follow it? That one person may -- may -- go on to change multiple people's minds, but I suspect the number of people they convince will be somewhere short of "all of society".

The number of people I've convinced to change their minds about something is nonzero, but as a proportion of all of human civilization, it's statistical noise. That's true of basically anybody who's not famous, and a lot of people who are.

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Upthorn
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Re: Edjumacation

Postby Upthorn » Thu Oct 21, 2021 2:22 pm

All I'm saying is that advice which has a maximum potential influence rate of greater than 1 is more effective than advice which has a maximum potential influence rate of 1.

Thad wrote:And what's your threshold for determining whether or not the advice is "useful"? How many people does it have to influence? Why is it that accepting impolitely-described facts is only "useful" if "all of society" does it, but all it takes for "don't be an asshole because people won't listen to you" to be "useful" advice is for a single person to follow it?


I often make casual use of hyperbole when illustrating concepts in casual conversation?
How fleeting are all human passions compared with the massive continuity of ducks.

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IGNORE ME
Woah Dangsaurus
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Re: Edjumacation

Postby IGNORE ME » Thu Oct 21, 2021 3:54 pm

Yo dawgs I didn't ask for a dramatization.

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Upthorn
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Re: Edjumacation

Postby Upthorn » Thu Oct 21, 2021 4:19 pm

I fixed it. Sorry if I was kinda flying off the handle originally. Been in a bad mood lately for reasons that have nothing to do with any of y'all.
How fleeting are all human passions compared with the massive continuity of ducks.

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beatbandito
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Re: Edjumacation

Postby beatbandito » Thu Oct 21, 2021 4:21 pm

the only way I could appreciate the irony of this tangential argument any more is if in the next post Thad corrected use of "irony".
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Niku
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Re: Edjumacation

Postby Niku » Thu Oct 21, 2021 6:59 pm

thad lives in arizona he doesn't know what rain even is
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Mongrel
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Re: Edjumacation

Postby Mongrel » Mon Jul 18, 2022 6:45 pm

The talk of falling civilizations in the podcast thread reminded me of something else I saw recently:
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nosimpleway
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Re: Edjumacation

Postby nosimpleway » Mon Jul 18, 2022 6:52 pm

Those who do not know history are doomed to repeat it, but those who do know history are doomed to watch everyone else repeat it while powerless to stop it, and it kind of loses some appeal.

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Mongrel
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Re: Edjumacation

Postby Mongrel » Mon Jul 18, 2022 6:59 pm

The article itself is pretty interesting, though the tl;dr is that the increasing commodification of higher education, especially specific degrees (i.e. NOT history), are responsible for the shift.

The irony being that studying history, at least as a degree subject, seemingly does get you nowhere.
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