Adventures of the Longest Muskrat

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Mongrel
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Re: The Continuing (Mis)adventures of Car Notch

Postby Mongrel » Tue Apr 26, 2022 10:46 pm

Idiots are already planning to "celebrate" chaos toddler's ascension by going on a giant, coordinated misgendering spree on the platform once the transfer is official.

On one hand, this is vile, evil, and shitty for thousands of vulnerable people.

On the other hand, at least there's advance warning, and if that's the way Twitter's gonna be under Muskie, well, burning it to the ground on day one at least gets that out of the way (and maybe costs him 60bn along the way)!

Any consensus yet on if people are mostly going to Mastodon, Telegram, Discord, or another location?
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Re: The Continuing (Mis)adventures of Car Notch

Postby Crick » Tue Apr 26, 2022 10:56 pm

A lot of the people I know are already on Discord. I don't think it'll be a good replacement though. I suspect the die off, if it happens, will be a slow one.

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Re: The Continuing (Mis)adventures of Car Notch

Postby Mongrel » Tue Apr 26, 2022 11:29 pm

Yeah, I don't see Discord as a proper replacement because Twitter's appeal is in part because it's aggregated communication from EVERYONE. Granted a lot of the celebrity or institutional accounts have just become PR portals, but it's still got the widest net of possible contact. Discord doesn't create that sort of space at all.

That said, a lot of circles of folks I know have been going "So should I set up a Discord?" "Yeah, might as well.", presumably as a temporary lifeboat.

As for fast vs slow, well, just look at Facebook. Some might call that a slow decline, but others would call it quite quick. Part of that was the appeal of an alternate platform - Twitter. So if a consensus replacement is in fact agreed on, that can accelerate things.
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Re: The Continuing (Mis)adventures of Car Notch

Postby Büge » Wed Apr 27, 2022 7:39 am

The thing about Discord is that it's not really an open social network so much as a set of walled gardens.
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Re: The Continuing (Mis)adventures of Car Notch

Postby beatbandito » Wed Apr 27, 2022 8:37 am

I guess you guys can come to tumblr. but park a block away so no one thinks I know you.
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Re: The Continuing (Mis)adventures of Car Notch

Postby Silversong » Wed Apr 27, 2022 9:46 am

I'm not a social media user and don't really have any inclination to be one, but what's wrong with Mastodon? It seems like an obvious second choice.

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Re: The Continuing (Mis)adventures of Car Notch

Postby nosimpleway » Wed Apr 27, 2022 10:36 am

Theoretically, yeah, Mastodon is Twitter but better

in practice Mastodon is the worst example of "any group of leftists naturally forms a circular firing squad"

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Re: The Continuing (Mis)adventures of Car Notch

Postby Grath » Wed Apr 27, 2022 10:40 am

Also, my impression was that Mastodon is less of a "social media platform" and more of a "platform for building your own social media walled garden", where you have the ability to include/exclude other people's walled gardens (depending on their settings); good for the ability to exclude nazis, not great for replacing the big unified experience of Twitter.

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Re: The Continuing (Mis)adventures of Car Notch

Postby Thad » Wed Apr 27, 2022 12:26 pm

We had a Mastodon instance for a minute there, right?

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Re: The Continuing (Mis)adventures of Car Notch

Postby Thad » Wed Apr 27, 2022 1:16 pm

Twitter policy chief faces wave of harassment amid Musk criticism

It's worth keeping in mind that it's not just a question of whether end users will stop using Twitter en masse. What happens if the people actually running the site do?

I think there's a very good chance that "person in charge of moderation on Twitter" becomes a job nobody wants in pretty short order.

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Re: The Continuing (Mis)adventures of Car Notch

Postby Yoji » Wed Apr 27, 2022 3:25 pm

Lady suggested I try Mastodon a few years back, and I've been poking at it as much as I poke any social media. I spout off whatever funny or interesting thing I have to say, maybe some drawings or whatever, and some like-minded folks reply and boost if I'm lucky. That's more than I seem to get from birdsite, where I'm basically ignored by most everyone besides fellow brontofighters. It does feel like a walled garden and I'm a little daunted by how the whole federation thing works, but I never much cared for Twitter in the first place.

I only joined the birdsite to mess around with an in-character account back when I played... an MMO I'm reluctant to mention these days. When that got old, I made a more straight-faced account for uploading PS4 screen captures and following artists who left Tumblr after shat the bed. And this is all after fleeing Facebook as it became clear that Zuckerberg was an android who was powered by harvested data, toxic interactions, and general human suffering. If everyone bailed somewhere better and Twitter burned down, I wouldn't lose any sleep.

The thing keeping me from leaving Twitter and never looking back is how everyone's still there. All the artists I follow, everyone they follow, anyone else I might know are all there. I try to do my part and duplicate my postings between networks, but it feels a bit tiresome when I'm copying and pasting what was supposed to be some silly thing my kids said.

Thad wrote:It's worth keeping in mind that it's not just a question of whether end users will stop using Twitter en masse. What happens if the people actually running the site do?

I think there's a very good chance that "person in charge of moderation on Twitter" becomes a job nobody wants in pretty short order.

They had a person on Maddow the other day (Ben Collins I think?) talking about how Musk just spent $44 billion for one of the worst jobs in the world.

So, he's a free speach absolutist? No rules at all? Then how would he handle something like the Tik Tok girl who accidentally made napalm? Or doxing of trans people? Or even worst of all, someone calling Elon Musk a doodie-head?
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Re: The Continuing (Mis)adventures of Car Notch

Postby Mongrel » Wed Apr 27, 2022 4:21 pm

Nah. You (and most media commentators) are putting way more thought into this than Muskie is (a perfectly understandable mistake!).

It's way more credit than Muskie deserves to assume he's anything other than exactly what it looks like he is: a self-serving chaos engine with the mental capacity of a toddler.

He just has money is all. For that, you have to remember 1) He's never really earned any money outside scams or theft. 2) Nothing he's ever done himself has ever generated positive revenues for any company he's been a part of.
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Re: The Continuing (Mis)adventures of Car Notch

Postby Thad » Wed Apr 27, 2022 4:29 pm

Yoji wrote:Lady suggested I try Mastodon a few years back, and I've been poking at it as much as I poke any social media. I spout off whatever funny or interesting thing I have to say, maybe some drawings or whatever, and some like-minded folks reply and boost if I'm lucky. That's more than I seem to get from birdsite, where I'm basically ignored by most everyone besides fellow brontofighters. It does feel like a walled garden and I'm a little daunted by how the whole federation thing works, but I never much cared for Twitter in the first place.

I only joined the birdsite to mess around with an in-character account back when I played... an MMO I'm reluctant to mention these days. When that got old, I made a more straight-faced account for uploading PS4 screen captures and following artists who left Tumblr after shat the bed. And this is all after fleeing Facebook as it became clear that Zuckerberg was an android who was powered by harvested data, toxic interactions, and general human suffering. If everyone bailed somewhere better and Twitter burned down, I wouldn't lose any sleep.

The thing keeping me from leaving Twitter and never looking back is how everyone's still there. All the artists I follow, everyone they follow, anyone else I might know are all there. I try to do my part and duplicate my postings between networks, but it feels a bit tiresome when I'm copying and pasting what was supposed to be some silly thing my kids said.


I'm subscribed to a handful of Twitter feeds via Nitter and RSS. I've never had a Twitter account; I get that there's some cool shit going on there but I think it's fundamentally a platform that's really only good for short informational posts or sarcastic one-liners. Anything more substantive than that is basically grafted on through ugly hacks like threading or posting screenshots of text (fuck you, people who use screen readers!).

And that's just the fundamental design of the thing; I haven't even gotten into the moderation problems it faces. Problem number one is it's simply impossible to moderate a network that size effectively. The problem is compounded by the dystopian late-stage-capitalism horror show that is Driving Engagement.

The Musk buyout is a reminder that It Can Get Worse.

They had a person on Maddow the other day (Ben Collins I think?) talking about how Musk just spent $44 billion for one of the worst jobs in the world.

So, he's a free speach absolutist? No rules at all? Then how would he handle something like the Tik Tok girl who accidentally made napalm? Or doxing of trans people? Or even worst of all, someone calling Elon Musk a doodie-head?

Musk is about to learn that --

Well, let me stop right there. It is entirely possible that Musk doesn't learn a goddamn thing, that he just sets fire to tens of billions of dollars, runs one of the world's biggest websites into the ground, and blames it on everybody else; the end, no moral.

But if Musk actually learns anything from this endeavor, he's going to learn in a hurry that moderation is a lot more complicated than he thinks it is. He's bleating about how all legal speech should be allowed -- well, okay, problem number one is that would mean no spam filters, you ignorant fuck.

I don't think he actually means he wants to allow spam. I think he just has the same understanding of free speech as every other ignorant motherfucker who whines about how Twitter is violating their free speech.

I do think there's a path where Twitter actually gets better under Musk. I don't think it's likely, but stranger things have happened.

I've already spoken of Project Bluesky and putting more moderation control into end users' hands. Musk isn't really a free speech absolutist, he just pretends to be, but that's a solution that recognizes that free association is an integral part of free speech. Turning Twitter into something a bit more like Mastodon, with smaller individual communities with their own moderators deciding which parts of Twitter they want to deal with and which they don't, is a more manageable solution than the current centralized moderation system.

Add to that that the advantage of taking Twitter private and not being answerable to quarterly demands for growth is that it's a potential off-ramp from the destructive engagement-at-all-costs ethos that's governed it for years. (The disadvantage is that it also removes the incentive to ban abusive users because they're bad for growth.)

There is the potential for positive change here. But it's going to require Musk taking a step back and letting people who know more than he does do the actual work. I don't think that'll happen due to any humility on his part, but I won't rule out the possibility that he gets distracted by the next shiny thing and forgets to micromanage Twitter.

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Re: The Continuing (Mis)adventures of Car Notch

Postby KingRoyal » Wed Apr 27, 2022 5:50 pm

That's assuming he doesn't back down from the deal

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Re: The Continuing (Mis)adventures of Car Notch

Postby Thad » Wed Apr 27, 2022 5:54 pm

I think you'll find that it assumes nothing and is quite deliberately peppered with words like "possible", "can", "if", "likely", and "potential".

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Re: The Continuing (Mis)adventures of Car Notch

Postby KingRoyal » Wed Apr 27, 2022 5:55 pm

I didn't think you thought any of that was happening, I was just seguing to post the link about how he's likely backing down

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Re: The Continuing (Mis)adventures of Car Notch

Postby Thad » Wed Apr 27, 2022 6:01 pm

Fair enough. I don't know if I'm prepared to say he's likely backing down -- that piece has a good long list of reasons why he should, but not any hard evidence that he will -- but yeah, we should take it as a distinct possibility until and unless the deal actually closes.

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Re: The Continuing (Mis)adventures of Car Notch

Postby Crick » Wed Apr 27, 2022 6:07 pm

If he ends up backing out of the deal, I think that would be the first actually funny thing he's ever done.

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Re: The Continuing (Mis)adventures of Car Notch

Postby Thad » Wed Apr 27, 2022 6:25 pm

I dunno, there was that time he was on Rick and Morty.

I wrote:Elon Tusk was fine. It wasn't the fawning depiction The Simpsons gave him a few years back; they didn't really twist the knife, but they did have a few pointed words about Elon's ego (and his conspiracy theories about AI). I didn't realize they'd actually gotten Elon Musk to do the voice until I saw the credits; either he's a better sport than I thought he was, or he didn't realize they were making fun of him.

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Re: The Continuing (Mis)adventures of Car Notch

Postby Mongrel » Wed Apr 27, 2022 11:25 pm

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