Trump Leaving Office Poll (Part 2)

[Mongrel]

Oh and there were a bunch of straight up Nazi flags too there because obviously.

[Friday]

If you can find any actual Nazi flags please link them here, because I'm going to use those pictures to get someone to realize what kind of people stormed the Senate.

[Thad]

[Mongrel]

If you can find any actual Nazi flags please link them here, because I'm going to use those pictures to get someone to realize what kind of people stormed the Senate.

It's good to ask, because I keep seeing people saying this, especially tweets by Jewish Americans speaking about just how scary the sight was, but no images yet. Apparently it may have been a series of pictures from a different mob being claimed as from today.

Meanwhile, I did find the WaPo has this video of a dude doing the salute.

[Friday]

aha!

3. other

has picked up another point! it was 8-8 earlier today and now it's 8-9. It's finally taken the lead for the first time!

[Mongrel]

hahahahahah

NEW: Rudy Giuliani meant to call Sen. Tommy Tuberville to ask him to object to 10 states' electoral votes, to buy Team Trump more time. He accidentally left a voicemail on a different senator's phone. We have the audio.

In spite of everything, we can at least still get a laugh out of Rudy's complete and utter ineptitude.

[Friday]

I mentioned this in finalfight, but the best part for me was seeing the pictures of the Confederate Battle Flag being flown in the Senate.

Like, what the South tried and failed to do 160 years ago was managed yesterday. It just made me smile.

[Mongrel]

The amazing thing is Twitter actually removed this tweet. Is this the first time Dorsey allowed the staff to outright delete a Donny tweet? Like, I want to say no, but I can't think of any prior examples.

If you missed it, it was this:

[Mongrel]

New Illinois congresswoman: ‘Hitler was right on one thing’

“This is the battle,” she said according to video posted by WCIA-TV. “Hitler was right on one thing. He said, ‘Whoever has the youth has the future.’”

[Mongrel]

ahahaha

[Brantly B.]

Hitler was technically correct about a lot of things but that... that's not something you can say really worked out for him.

At least one new post has been made to this topic.

Christ, dude.

[Friday]

America is so much better than any given time in its history

[Thad]

The amazing thing is Twitter actually removed this tweet.

And tempbanned him.

"For trying to foment a civil war, you are hereby banned...for twelve hours."

Facebook/Instagram really gave it to him and banned his account for twenty-four hours.

In spite of everything, we can at least still get a laugh out of Rudy's complete and utter ineptitude.

People are going to be processing what happened yesterday for the rest of our lives and beyond. We still don't know that it's over, and we still don't know what the repercussions are going to be.

But in this moment, at least, it seems to me that it's a lot like the rest of the Trump Administration: it provokes a combination of existential horror that it happened, and relief that the people doing it are complete fucking idiots. This could have been so much worse. I mean, Christ, the lame duck president urged a mob of supporters to march on the Capitol; they actually stormed it, got inside -- and then milled around for a few hours, mostly committing petty vandalism and taking selfies.

I don't want to minimize the violence that did occur. But my God, the distance between what could have happened and what did happen is goddamned immense. It's astronomical.

Like most everything that's happened during the Trump Administration, it was awful but could have been so much worse if everyone involved hadn't been so dumb.

New Illinois congresswoman: ‘Hitler was right on one thing’

[Thad]

Another thing: on Tuesday I would have bet that the DoJ wouldn't go after Trump after he's out of office. After yesterday, I'm a lot less certain of that bet. He just pissed off a lot of people with job titles like "investigator" and "prosecutor".

Biden's announced Merrick Garland for AG, and with the Democrats taking the Senate, he should get confirmed without any trouble. And he's like Robert Mueller in that he's got a strong enough reputation that, when Republicans try to smear him as a far-left operative, most people aren't going to buy it. (Even Qanon, the most gullible people in the world, didn't buy the "Robert Mueller is a Democratic operative" narrative, and had to turn it into "Mueller isn't really investigating Trump, they're secretly working together.")

I feel like the incoming administration would have really preferred not to have to deal with investigating or prosecuting the previous one (I've seen this movie before, the last time Biden held executive office), but it may be that Trump's forced their hand at this point.

[Friday]

Trump is playing all or nothing. He's worried he's gonna go to jail, so he's doing things that make it more likely that he goes to jail in a desperate attempt to stay in power through any means.

I know you don't agree with me about the "Trump's primary motivation is to stay in power/avoid jail" but it at least IS a very powerful motivator for him. He doesn't care about the country, or even the GOP. He would blow up the GOP forever in an instant if it meant he got to stay in power and never go to jail or face consequences for his actions.

But I think you're right about forcing their hand. Two days ago I would have said it's possible (not likely, but possible) Biden actually pardons Trump under the "we need healing" bullshit rhetoric, now, that would be political suicide and would tank his approval ratings for his entire Presidency. Even just "not investigating/prosecuting" now looks really bad for Biden. It makes him look spineless and wimpy, or even complicit.

[KingRoyal]

Trump will face no consequences for this and the American fascist movement just got an incredible shot in the arm. Trump's supporters may have failed this time because they didn't have a plan, but this event will be a powerful recruitment tool. And it can't be ignored that Capitol police let this happen. They and nearly every police force in America is loyal to Trump. They opened the damned gates, and every elected official seems terrified of the police.

I'm not expecting any repercussions for Trump out of this, and any sense of things calming down or returning to normal will just be illusory.

[nosimpleway]

That's RIGHT!
*slams history book down on table*
This is AMERICA. We are BETTER THAN THIS. We... *opens to a random page*
We... uh... *flips through a few more pages*
We... don't stand for, uh... *flip flip flip*
oh dear

[Thad]

But I think you're right about forcing their hand. Two days ago I would have said it's possible (not likely, but possible) Biden actually pardons Trump under the "we need healing" bullshit rhetoric, now, that would be political suicide and would tank his approval ratings for his entire Presidency. Even just "not investigating/prosecuting" now looks really bad for Biden. It makes him look spineless and wimpy, or even complicit.

Biden's line has always been "That's not up to me, it's up to the Department of Justice, and as president I won't interfere with the DoJ the way President Trump has." Which is a good line but sort of handwaves the part where he picks the person who's going to lead the DoJ and make the decisions on whether to investigate or prosecute Trump.

Now we know who that pick is, and the reasons behind that pick are pretty clear and have a lot more to do with Obama and McConnell than Trump.

Garland's got a reputation as a mild-mannered moderate. That's why Obama nominated him to the Supreme Court; he mistakenly believed that he'd be an uncontroversial choice who a Republican Senate would be willing to confirm. I don't know for certain what he'll do as AG, or what he would have done if not for yesterday's events, but I find it plausible that he would have been wary of investigating the previous administration but is much likelier to consider it necessary now.

And of course while he'll be the head of the DoJ, he's not the only person who will be making decisions. Like I said, I think Trump's probably just pissed of a lot of career civil servants who have the power to approve or conduct investigations.

I think it's a certainty that Trump will pardon his family and his businesses on the way out the door, and attempt to pardon himself. I don't think the self-pardon is going to work, but it's likely it would tie up the courts for years. Like the rest of his legal maneuvers, it's a stalling tactic.

As for the rest of the pardons, though, they'll stick. Don't expect anyone else in his family, or his businesses, to face consequences at the federal level. They'll still have New York to worry about, though. And civil suits from all over the country.

There's also the possibility of charges in Georgia, over his latest perfect phone call. That's another one of those things where, two days ago, I wouldn't have expected anything to come of it -- it's Georgia -- but I think the whole violent coup attempt thing has probably moved a lot of stuff from the "dammit, I really don't want to deal with this" column to the "dammit, now I'm gonna have to deal with this" column.

[Friday]

hi Soup

How are you

(no really, are you doing well I hope)

Before we get started I want to say I have a lot of respect for you and I like you a lot as a person

but you have allowed yourself to sink into "nothing good ever happens ever" which is a fallacy. I don't really blame you for it, honestly. These last four years (2020 especially) would make almost anyone think we're living in some sort of Hellscape.

lets go blow by blow shall we, old school pyoko style quote zig

Trump will face no consequences for this

debatable. Trump's future is uncertain. "No consequences" seems pretty unlikely to me, but I admit it's possible. Your surety is what I'm mostly objecting.

and the American fascist movement just got an incredible shot in the arm.

Yes and no. On the one hand, they walked right the fuck in, but on the other, they didn't really accomplish much. Depending on if they get pardoned and how many of them get arrested, this might up being bad or good. Personally, I think it about evens out in terms of being a good shot or a bad shot.

Trump's supporters may have failed this time because they didn't have a plan, but this event will be a powerful recruitment tool.

I think I agree with you here. The Trump cult won't get any smaller because of this, certainly.

And it can't be ignored that Capitol police let this happen.

It certainly fucking looks that way. The selfies they took with the rioters are a big tip off, even if they didn't literally open the gates for them. And if these people had been POC the police would have had fucking Tanks and Machine Guns.

They and nearly every police force in America is loyal to Trump.

They're loyal to racism and racist rhetoric, regardless of who is spouting it. But since Trump is the one currently spouting it, you're not technically wrong.

They opened the damned gates,

Yep. Snopes says the video "isn't 100% clear" because you can't actually make out the cops literally physically opening it, but their behavior immediately after it IS opened is pretty clear. They turn and walk casually away, so.

and every elected official seems terrified of the police.

Well, I don't really know about this, but it's certainly possible. The police are fucking terrifying. Remember when Arc made fun of me for saying so back in 2009 or whatever? I think about that thread a lot in these times, because it was me going "something really bad is going to happen in the next 10-20 years" and Arc saying "actually things are getting better all the time and you can't count the Bush years."

I'm not expecting any repercussions for Trump out of this,

I'm not "expecting" anything. We are living in chaotic times. Again, I am not objecting to your points being possible, only that you seem so 100% sure that the worst outcomes will always occur. Which they might. But resigning yourself to that is not using your brain. Good things do happen.

and any sense of things calming down or returning to normal will just be illusory.

Well, this I agree with you 100%.

Anyway, Soup, you're a smart guy, but even for me, a person who uses very strong language and tends toward cynicism moreso than almost everyone else here on the boards, you're too pessimistic.

[KingRoyal]

Hitler led an unsuccessful coup in 1923, went to prison for nine months and finally achieved power in 1933. The history of the rise of fascism in Europe both before WWII and after has a pretty clear pattern of the movement attempting shit like this before they finally succeed. The Black Shirts in Italy tried for years before Mussolini seized power, same with Franco in Spain. No amount of underestimating what the American fascist movement is capable of has actually stopped or slowed Trump down, and those in the movement clearly aren't going to back down and even the elected officials who support him didn't stop.

There is absolutely no reason to believe that Trump has finally been vanquished, especially when the Democrats are pretty clear they don't intend to really do anything.

I'm not saying this to be pessimistic. I'm saying this because the attitude of "It can't happen here" is how it happens, and I have zero reason to believe that our elected officials are going to do anything about it. Even Thad's appraisal of the situation is "Yeah, Merrick Garland can if he wants to," followed by a comparison to Mueller, who was completely ineffectual.