Ol' shoot 'em in the leg

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Thad
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Re: Ol' shoot 'em in the leg

Postby Thad » Wed Oct 27, 2021 1:25 pm

Mongrel wrote:(yes, I know republicans are flogging this clip right now, but it's not like it's fake or out of context)

...how is a 14-second clip not out of context? Did he just walk up, say that, and then leave?

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Re: Ol' shoot 'em in the leg

Postby Mongrel » Wed Oct 27, 2021 1:36 pm

Thad wrote:
Mongrel wrote:(yes, I know republicans are flogging this clip right now, but it's not like it's fake or out of context)

...how is a 14-second clip not out of context? Did he just walk up, say that, and then leave?

He opened with that statement and there's a very clear and long pause at the end. That was the whole opening.

Come on dude. You tell me what could possibly followed that to give it any sense at all? Like that's well past belt onions.
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Re: Ol' shoot 'em in the leg

Postby IGNORE ME » Wed Oct 27, 2021 1:48 pm

Be nice, he hadn't had his covfefe.

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Re: Ol' shoot 'em in the leg

Postby KingRoyal » Wed Oct 27, 2021 2:05 pm

This is just Obama saying "57 states" and Bush saying "strategery" or whatever. Weird flubs that presidents make but that drive the opposing side wild
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Re: Ol' shoot 'em in the leg

Postby Thad » Wed Oct 27, 2021 2:22 pm

Mongrel wrote:Come on dude. You tell me what could possibly followed that to give it any sense at all?

Gee, I don't know; what's the difference between someone jabbering incoherently for 90 minutes and someone jabbering incoherently for 14 seconds and speaking lucidly for 90 minutes afterward, in determining whether or not those 14 seconds are a sign of senility?

It's a real puzzler.

KingRoyal wrote:This is just Obama saying "57 states" and Bush saying "strategery" or whatever. Weird flubs that presidents make but that drive the opposing side wild


Precisely, except for the part where "strategery" was Will Ferrell.

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Re: Ol' shoot 'em in the leg

Postby Joxam » Wed Oct 27, 2021 2:23 pm

I love how he has talked very openly about his issues with speech because of his disability for literally his entire career but we still have people, even here, going crazy over the 'he's senile' angle. Especially when there are so many other, real, angles to hang him for.
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Re: Ol' shoot 'em in the leg

Postby Thad » Wed Oct 27, 2021 2:39 pm

I've also got half a mind to dissect the "onion on my belt" monologue, but nobody needs that in their life.

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Re: Ol' shoot 'em in the leg

Postby Mongrel » Wed Oct 27, 2021 3:33 pm

You know, I don't recall anyone being half this generous in their defence of Biden's faculties during the actual election when he was variously referred to by more than a few posters, including several of the above, as being senile, visibly incompetent, the victim of elder abuse, "manifestly ill-suited to tackle the challenges of our age", "some loose skin they filled with sand", and other less kind things.
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Re: Ol' shoot 'em in the leg

Postby Mongrel » Wed Oct 27, 2021 3:44 pm

I mean, don't get me wrong. This was never just about Biden. It's about how much of the Presidency is Biden and how much of it is party leaders krangling shit behind closed doors.
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Re: Ol' shoot 'em in the leg

Postby KingRoyal » Wed Oct 27, 2021 4:38 pm

I thought Biden was senile when they he started complaining into his phone and walked off camera during a livestream. That was over a year ago. In the time since, Biden has given multiple public addresses and been much more public about himself. It's come to seem less as "senility" and more that he's just an old guy. This may surprise you, but sometimes perceptions change.

Also, I've had a lot of experience with people with actual senility and Biden is nothing like them.
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Re: Ol' shoot 'em in the leg

Postby Büge » Wed Oct 27, 2021 7:35 pm

I mean, he's definitely a creep around women...
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Re: Ol' shoot 'em in the leg

Postby beatbandito » Fri Oct 29, 2021 8:26 am

Mongrel wrote:You know, I don't recall anyone being half this generous in their defence of Biden's faculties during the actual election when he was variously referred to by more than a few posters, including several of the above, as being senile, visibly incompetent, the victim of elder abuse, "manifestly ill-suited to tackle the challenges of our age", "some loose skin they filled with sand", and other less kind things.

Yeah but now he's a democratic president so he can't possibly be as bad as or worse than the last republican president in any regard.
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Re: Ol' shoot 'em in the leg

Postby Thad » Fri Oct 29, 2021 11:57 am

Mongrel wrote:You know, I don't recall anyone being half this generous in their defence of Biden's faculties during the actual election when he was variously referred to by more than a few posters, including several of the above, as being senile, visibly incompetent, the victim of elder abuse, "manifestly ill-suited to tackle the challenges of our age", "some loose skin they filled with sand", and other less kind things.


Thad wrote:
Mongrel wrote:It's not even "stupid shit" though, it's fucking word salad.

One thing that really struck me was how, back when my granddad started failing, he got angry as one of the early stages - and this was a guy who was mostly soft-spoken and peaceable, so it was REALLY striking.

Back then, the home care workers explained to us that this was a phase a lot of people go through with dementia as they get frustrated because they're at a point where they still remember more than they forget, but don't recognize it yet when they do forget.

So obviously I can't help but wonder if that earlier phase when Joe was telling people off, telling them to vote for someone else was the same situation. Of course in my granddad's case those phases were slow, over many months (angry phase was the better part of a year which was incredibly exhausting for my aunt), but then he was just watching TV and chilling out, rather than being forced to be the face of a campaign for the most powerful position on the planet, which unquestionably will have a real physiological effect on the progression of a disease.

I'm not saying these aren't signs of cognitive decline, but Biden's been alternately lashing out and blurting ill-conceived, half-coherent rambles for thirty years. I think singling out a particular out-of-context quote as evidence of dementia is a little fraught; I don't know if I'd be able to correctly identify a series of out-of-context Biden quotes as coming from 2020, 2008, or 1988.

Some of his trouble with words is also attributable to his stutter.

I'm worried about Biden's fitness too, his policies, his stamina, and his mental state. But I think there are a whole lot of reasons he says and does the things he does; it's attributable to a lot more than just dementia.


Brentai wrote:I can't tell how many people actually remember those 8 years where Jeff Bidet's sole defining feature was his inability to keep his foot out of his mouth.


Careful, Mongrel. If you keep having trouble remembering things, people might think you're senile.

beatbandito wrote:Yeah but now he's a democratic president so he can't possibly be as bad as or worse than the last republican president in any regard.

That's okay, Beato; I still have faith that one day you'll learn a second rhetorical tactic.

I believe in you!

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Re: Ol' shoot 'em in the leg

Postby Mongrel » Fri Oct 29, 2021 1:30 pm

You say right there that you're worried about his fitness and his mental state. You did say you thought he was ill-suited to the job. My memory is probably already dementia-grade, but I can still read.

Sure, you've become more favourable towards Biden over time, but not everyone here has. We still have kids in cages. We still have a lot of nasty things Biden theoretically has power over with or without Congress. But if he's not actually the person who should be held responsible for those things or he is only partially responsible, then there's a significant and extended deception going on which shields the actual decision-makers.

Never mind that it doesn't have to be dementia. Aging and stress can magnify preexisting health conditions, and we know the Presidency comes with an enormous amount of both even in the best of times. As an example in the very article you linked in that old post, Biden's stutter has returned after a decades-long absence (or at least a long period of good control), and that was in 2019. Is that worrying? Not really. Was his avoidance in speaking about it, or in addressing about whether his disability explained other apparent cognitive issues he'd been accused of having worrying? I'd say so. I mean, right now we're stuck speculating precisely because of that reluctance.

Not that a stutter should disqualify him, but I'll go there and ask do you really think the occasions where he says complete gibberish are really attributable to a stutter which affects Biden as presented in the article? Because the article mostly speaks about Biden's issues with syallables, not words, but even when they get to circumlocution as a coping mechanism, we're still talking about swaps which still make sense, such as "my boss" for "Obama". Other stutterers may have their speech affected in different ways, but in that article not only do Biden and the author describe very different symptoms, Biden kept insisting he doesn't stutter anymore anyway.

Which, again, if it was just a matter of a disability which didn't significantly affect the performance of his job, then sure, we shouldn't be jumping on that. Even if it IS some mild cognitive issue, but something which can be managed, or which only affects his speech. But his refusal to be transparent about this is definitely worth talking about, because we're not talking about just any job, we're talking about the most powerful person on the planet. Again, we're talking about the possibility that he's either in denial (which would show a serious impairment of judgment) or that there are people who have influence over him and who are being shielded from criticism via deception.
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Re: Ol' shoot 'em in the leg

Postby IGNORE ME » Fri Oct 29, 2021 2:36 pm

I'm not disappointed in Jeff Bidet's performance. He is everything that I expect from a Democrat.

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Re: Ol' shoot 'em in the leg

Postby beatbandito » Fri Oct 29, 2021 3:10 pm

Biden isn't senile, he's just a bunch of things that can be easily summarized as senile. But fuck your entire point if you use that one word I don't.
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Re: Ol' shoot 'em in the leg

Postby atog » Fri Oct 29, 2021 4:55 pm

Wernicke's aphasia comes to mind. After a stroke, some parts of the language center's quality control system goes offline in the temporal lobe. You try to say something, but the word choices are all wrong, random, or fit the emotional content of the situation even if they don't make sense.

It comes out as gibberish. It may even self-propagate as the speaker, aware that they aren't getting to say what they mean, get more frustrated and then the word salad gets more dramatic and bizarre.

It's the opposite of Broca's aphasia, which knocks out the part of your brain that picks words in the first place, so the speaker sometimes can't access words at all. They'll be frustrated and end up just saying the few words that they can, or "I can't remember." or just "I can't."

Sometimes you can get a sense of what they mean if they do or write or behave in a way that indicates they are aware of their situation and cognitively functional. For instance, "Mom guess whose birthday it is?" "I can't remember" but she also has been wrapping cat toys in a big box because she knows it's Esperath's birthday.

People with Wernicke's aphasia often get dumped in the dementia category, because dementia patients will often tell you things about random and bizarre topics to illustrate how they're feeling or something that happened to them earlier that day. And if you asked a Wernicke's aphasia patient about what they had for lunch, they may start out talking about food, but if they try to recall to you in words how they didn't like the salad because it was wilted, their brain may grab any old phrase from their memory that means "it was not to my liking so I refused it" and you get "...and then they brought in the cavalry, but they were all drunk and so I left the army. Mustered out and collected my papers and walked. Not paying for that garbage." You have to know this person very well, and know factually that they sent back a wilted salad to the kitchen, to know they are just expressing their disappointment and rejection of the situation with whatever mood-appropriate tools their broken part picker can find and shove in the assembly line.

Strokes often also knock out bits of spatial reasoning, emotional control, and motor regions. Telling these apart from frank dementia is hard. And if you have enough small strokes in enough brain regions, you can have vascular dementia, which is still a progressive and substantial impairment in judgment and executive function. But if it's PREDOMINANTLY a word finding and/or word vetting thing, and their faculties are essentially intact, it's horrifying to think these folks will end up being ignored or mistrusted, locked inside their own head behind a communications snafu.
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Re: Ol' shoot 'em in the leg

Postby mharr » Sat Oct 30, 2021 4:58 am

Being as bad as or worse than the specific, named last republican president in any regard would take unusual levels of commitment.

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Re: Ol' shoot 'em in the leg

Postby Thad » Thu Mar 03, 2022 2:58 pm

Biden FCC pick advances in Senate by 14-14 vote amid Republican opposition

Commerce Committee member Sen. Kyrsten Sinema (D-Ariz.) hadn't previously said whether she would back Sohn, and Comcast hired a prominent lobbyist in Arizona to work on "FCC nominations," but Sinema voted for Sohn today in the party-line decision. In the full Senate, Sen. Joe Manchin (D-W.Va.) may be a key swing vote.

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Re: Ol' shoot 'em in the leg

Postby Thad » Wed Jun 15, 2022 3:32 pm

Couple good-start executive orders out of this White House since yesterday:

President Biden Signs Executive Order That Will Give Us A Couple Of Years Of Decent Law Enforcement Reforms

There’s a lot to like in the expansive executive order. But much of what’s listed here should be considered a baseline, rather than the end goal. What’s most useful about this order is that these baselines haven’t previously been established at the federal level. Instead, the DOJ has been given the discretion to pick and choose what it wants to fix and what it would rather ignore.


FACT SHEET: President Biden to Sign Historic Executive Order Advancing LGBTQI+ Equality During Pride Month

  • Addressing discriminatory legislative attacks against LGBTQI+ children and families, directing key agencies to protect families and children;
  • Preventing so-called “conversion therapy” with a historic initiative to protect children from the harmful practice;
  • Safeguarding health care, and programs designed to prevent youth suicide;
  • Supporting LGBTQI+ children and families by launching a new initiative to protect foster youth, prevent homelessness, and improve access to federal programs; and
  • Taking new, additional steps to advance LGBTQI+ equality.

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