Ol' shoot 'em in the leg

[Mongrel]

I love the NYP spinning this as a negative.

[Thad]

Biden cancels up to $20K in student loans for Pell Grant recipients, $10K for millions of others

It's not nothin', but it's a pretty good illustration of why triangulation is a crock of shit. Just as many assholes are ranting about $10,000 in loan forgiveness as would be if he'd forgiven everything. People who need help are unsatisfied because this doesn't do enough; people who don't need help are mad because other people are getting any help whatsoever. This is what establishment Democrats think good politics looks like for some damn reason.

[KingRoyal]

I think it's good. I'm not in a position to think $10,000 is insignificant and at least 55% of the country supports partial forgiveness over full. It doesn't really address the economic problems at the core of the student loan crisis, but this will help people and I just can't imagine giving like 90% of borrowers $10,000 will make them angry.

And believe me, I'm a "Education should be completely free" and we definitely should just cancel the debt. I just think people are making the wrong assumption that A. This won't help anyone and B. people will resent it

[Thad]

Oh, I know it's going to help people; my wife's within two years of paying off hers and this will knock at least six months off that time. I'll breathe a lot easier with our second-highest monthly household expense (after the mortgage) out of the way.

It's still one of those things where he's making a major concession to people who won't be happy no matter what he does, and that's consistently frustrating.

On the plus side, it's not just forgiveness, it's also setting some additional limits, like halving the cap of discretionary income borrowers have to pay each month (from 10% to 5%).

[KingRoyal]

I just think the "Angry about any student loan forgiveness" crowd is a lot smaller than they are loud, and probably smaller than the "$10,000 will financially help me" crowd.

And for what it's worth, forgiveness is only part of the solution. As long as the tuition/student loan system exists, then even if we wiped it out now it would simply start building up again by the next decade

[Thad]

I just think the "Angry about any student loan forgiveness" crowd is a lot smaller than they are loud, and probably smaller than the "$10,000 will financially help me" crowd.

Which is all the more reason their opinions should not factor into policymaking decisions.

[KingRoyal]

Oh, I don't think it's their opinions so much as it is like Sinema and Manchin's that's the driver of this one, which more reflects our shitty, shitty government


Well, that and this is about as generous as one of the people behind student debt being protected from bankruptcy is gonna get

[Friday]

I agree with Thad that one of the biggest sins of the Democratic Party is their constant bending over backwards to appease a group of people who cannot and never will be appeased. They think of us as the enemy and have openly stated as such. If treating the GOP as an enemy in return makes you feel bad and wring your hands and cry, then at least you can agree that we should stop treating them as "fellow statesmen who just disagree on a few issues."

And by "bending over backwards" I mean "enacting policy that will destroy people's lives and also kill them in some cases."

[Yoji]

Probably said it before, but I get so fucking annoyed with the whole Let's Go Brandon thing.

Like... you know you can just say "fuck Jeff Bidet," right? I can say it, too. I do it frequently! Watch me go!

Fuck Jeff Bidet! That centrist stooge tries to play nice with an opposing party that has openly sworn to stop him at any cost, with some members publicly saying he's not really the president. Does he really think he can negotiate with a tiger while his head is in its mouth, and that tiger has told him at every opportunity how it wants to eat him? If he does, then fuck that guy!

And I'm mad at NPR again, while we're at it. They were talking about Salman Rushdie the other day and had an interview with... I dunno, some fan of his. All I know is they started complaining about how free speech is in danger because the parties don't talk to each other anymore.

And that pissed me off because... well, yeah. I'm not chatting nicely with a growing fascist party. My side sucks, but mine didn't lead an armed revolt on the capital or openly contemplated literally burning books. I'm having trouble thinking of anyone on the left who wants to kill me just because they think I might be gay. How exactly am I supposed to just coexist with people like that? Do I have to drag out my Dr Pepper Tolerance screed again?

[hngkong]

I think the whole "Let's go Brandon" thing is two-fold, and someone else might have said it before, but they don't understand how someone could vote for a person and not have that person be the center of their world. It's completely impossible for them to comprehend criticizing someone who is on their side, until that person becomes part of the out-group.
And the other big one is that they like having these little nudge nudge, wink wink, kind of things. There's some store/gym? place called 88 something. The reason they picked 88 they claim is because it means "Situation Secure" in some police code. They sell "Silencer Smooth" coffee. It's loaded with neo-nazi code talk. They like thinking they can get one over on everyone. I think they realized that "Let's go Brandon" as a secret fell apart, but it got so used, they just kept going with it.

As for loan forgiveness, I see people online discussing just continuing to pay absolute minimum, hoping that we elect someone who will actually do something more. I mean, this will eliminate only the interest I've accrued, and that's honestly almost as upsetting as if nothing had been done, because I'm still at square one.

[KingRoyal]

As for loan forgiveness, I see people online discussing just continuing to pay absolute minimum, hoping that we elect someone who will actually do something more. I mean, this will eliminate only the interest I've accrued, and that's honestly almost as upsetting as if nothing had been done, because I'm still at square one.

Not completely, since the program also caps interest so you'll actually be able to pay down your principal without the amount increasing.

I get it, $10k isn't everything, and it's especially insulting considering the absolute size of the PPP Loan program for businesses and how few of them made zero effort to pay the loans back. But you're gonna have a real hard time convincing people this won't help them

This and the IRA have been two of the most significant things Biden as actually done so far, and we got this far by fighting tooth and nail. The fight continues, but take a moment to actually appreciate that this will help about 41 million people. And I think about 20 million of that are eligible for the $20k given to Pell grant recepients

[Grath]

My understanding is that there's associated improvements of 'threatening the accreditation of the worst offender for-profit colleges that stick students with mountains of debt that they'll never pay off' and 'if you're paying the 5%, interest no longer accrues'; I don't know the exact details (I'm lucky/privileged that I didn't have student loans, so I haven't looked that deeply into something that won't impact me.)

I mean, uhh, this doesn't benefit me, so time to vote Republican. Yep.

[KingRoyal]

My original reaction was "Oh, $10,000? That'll just get eaten up by interest in a few years" but the interest cap thing and some of the other details make this way better than it initially sounded.

[Thad]

Oh, I don't think it's their opinions so much as it is like Sinema and Manchin's that's the driver of this one, which more reflects our shitty, shitty government

It's an executive order. The Senate don't enter into it.

I guess there may be an argument about keeping Manchin happy so he plays ball with whatever the next important piece of legislation is, but I'm not sure I buy it. I definitely don't buy it for Sinema, because her repeated clashes with her own party have nothing to do with policy, they're about publicity. She thinks she's John McCain. It says so right in her commercials. Which she's running in a year she's not even on the ballot.

Anyway, an important detail in case you've been paying off your student loans during the freeze and that's put the amount you owe under $10,000: you can still get the full $10,000.

[KingRoyal]

Awww man and I ran down $20k of my debt in 2020 specifically because of the no interest. Now I want them to give me $10,000. Not because of fairness or anything like that, but because

[hngkong]

As for loan forgiveness, I see people online discussing just continuing to pay absolute minimum, hoping that we elect someone who will actually do something more. I mean, this will eliminate only the interest I've accrued, and that's honestly almost as upsetting as if nothing had been done, because I'm still at square one.

Not completely, since the program also caps interest so you'll actually be able to pay down your principal without the amount increasing.

Well, by square one, I meant back to what I borrowed. And I'm not sure if all of my loans will qualify for the no interest cap, since the majority of them now are grad school loans, and I keep seeing specifically undergrad loans being mentioned.

And don't get me wrong, I'm over the moon for everyone this helps. It just isn't enough.

[Mongrel]

[Mongrel]

Oops the PPP records are public!


Also the interest cap going forward is HUUUUUGE. MUCH bigger than the forgiveness program. Also worth mentioning on that subject:

[Mongrel]

[Thad]

I didn't watch last night's speech but the right-wingers are howling about how Biden has declared war on them or some shit.

I'd say that's evidence he probably did something right, but then again they'd probably react the same if he ate dijon mustard or whatever.