The Star Trek Thread

User avatar
Crick
Posts: 270
Joined: Wed Mar 23, 2022 10:01 pm

Re: The Star Trek Thread

Postby Crick » Thu May 12, 2022 10:51 pm

Just a ship full of huge men and women, jacked out of their minds, doing science, exploring, and getting a sick as hell pump in.

User avatar
Mothra
Woah Dangsaurus
Posts: 3963
Joined: Mon Jan 20, 2014 7:12 pm
Location: Boston, MA
Contact:

Re: The Star Trek Thread

Postby Mothra » Fri May 13, 2022 2:12 am

Great ep of SNW, really hit the spot.

I like how this cast works together, feels nice and effortless. Makes me wonder how dramatically Disco could be improved by slowing it down like this, giving each part room to breathe.

It’s nuts how “paying off the thing you have set up” is some amazing return to form now.

User avatar
Sharkey
Posts: 768
Joined: Mon Jan 20, 2014 6:11 pm
Location: Send Lawyers, Guns and Money
Contact:

Re: The Star Trek Thread

Postby Sharkey » Fri May 13, 2022 3:43 am

I'm appreciating the vibe a lot more with this show, in that the characters seem like functional adults I can give a fuck about. Low bar, but if the TNG crew were like coworkers in a large corporate office who mostly liked each other and were at least respectful when they didn't, and the DS9 peeps were like friends at a scrappy startup who had a lot of issues but shared common interest and even camaraderie, the new trek shit has been like the violent screaming narcissists running a toxic game studio or comic publisher or whatever into the ground (but who somehow keep failing upward.)

I'm inclined to like this, which honestly feels weird at this point.

It's also nice to get plots that weren't written like something Myew would spit out on a bad day.

Also it's not lost at me that I'm using a capitalist simile for an ostensibly utopian, post-scarcity society but that's just how the cookie gets exploited by the owner class or whatever. Characters who aren't a pack of assholes is utopian enough at this point.
Image

User avatar
Thad
Posts: 13169
Joined: Tue Jan 21, 2014 10:05 am
Location: 1611 Uranus Avenue
Contact:

Re: The Star Trek Thread

Postby Thad » Fri May 13, 2022 1:49 pm

Crick wrote:That's good to hear! I perhaps gave up on it all too soon.

I don't want to oversell it. The first two seasons are bad with some occasional good bits. The third is a dramatic improvement but whiffs it pretty badly at the end. I think the fourth season is the first point where I'd recommend it without reservations -- still not perfect (Mothra had a pretty good breakdown upthread about its rough edges) but good.

User avatar
Sharkey
Posts: 768
Joined: Mon Jan 20, 2014 6:11 pm
Location: Send Lawyers, Guns and Money
Contact:

Re: The Star Trek Thread

Postby Sharkey » Sat May 14, 2022 5:30 am

The absolute dumbest nitpick I have about worlds ep 2 is that water is a greenhouse gas so those people would be long term fucked but fuck all that it was a fun story. How are there two good star treks in a row out the gate I'm waiting for the other shoe to completely obliterate everything.
Image

User avatar
Thad
Posts: 13169
Joined: Tue Jan 21, 2014 10:05 am
Location: 1611 Uranus Avenue
Contact:

Re: The Star Trek Thread

Postby Thad » Sat May 14, 2022 3:51 pm

I could nitpick that the "figuring out how the alien communicates" scene was very similar to the one from the latest season of Discovery, but since I love that kind of shit I'm not going to. Not like Star Trek's never repeated itself before; this is a good trope and one I don't mind seeing repeated.

It was also similar to the latest season of Discovery in that they both seemed to be going for kind of an "Orson Scott Card but without that icky Orson Scott Card aftertaste" thing. Season 4 of Discovery built to a similar reveal to Ender's Game (alien is a hivemind that assumed it was killing mindless drones, not conscious beings), and episode 2 of SNW hit the same reveal as Speaker for the Dead (humans assume that weird anthropomorphic statements by an unfamiliar culture are religious superstition but it turns out they're straightforward statements of fact that the humans just don't understand).

Also, Uhura being conflicted about whether she wants to stay with Starfleet is one of those references to someone's offscreen life (Nichelle Nichols originally intending to leave the show after one season) that actually works as compelling character drama, so nice touch there.

JD
Posts: 182
Joined: Sat Feb 01, 2020 9:40 pm

Re: The Star Trek Thread

Postby JD » Sun May 15, 2022 9:54 am

Classic Star Trek had to use allegory to tell stories about controversial issues the studio execs wouldn't allow to be handled directly. The writers on Picard don't seem to have any such restrictions, and tackling real-world fascism isn't unprecedented (Star Trek featured Nazis several times), but it runs the risk of alienating conservative viewers for whom Star Trek is their only source of progressive ideas. I'm thinking of the Voyager episode Muse, a self-referential episode where a playwright intentionally writes a story to convey an anti-war message.

A few details I liked about Picard season 2:

  • They finally explain why Picard has an English accent despite being French (his ancestors fled to England during World War II, and Picard's family only returned to Chateau Picard when he was young).
  • Guinan's license plate is S02 E01, referring to the TNG episode in which she first appears.
  • The Europa shuttle is the same ship that appeared in the opening to Enterprise. There are also posters featuring the Nomad, the probe from TOS which wipes Uhura's memory, canonically launched from earth in 2002.
  • The FBI guy meeting Vulcans in the 1970s is consistent with the Enterprise episode where Vulcans visit Earth in the 1950s, which ends with the Vulcans saying they won't return for another twenty years.
  • The "Project Khan" folder dated 1992-1996 is a nod to the Eugenics Wars, which were originally said to have happened in those years. There's a later novel series which rationalizes this with real-world history by having the Augments secretly behind real-world conflicts of the 1990s, such as the Middle East and Balkans.
  • It's a nice touch to rationalize the sanctuary districts (from the DS9 episode about the Bell Riots, which also occurred in 2024) with the real-world ICE camps.
Problems:

  • A lot about Guinan doesn't make any sense. Why doesn't Guinan recognize Picard from 1893? Why is Guinan depressed in 2024, even though she was previously happy enough living as a black woman during Jim Crow? How do they come back to her bar to try and summon Q when it was already closing up? Why does Guinan have a mysterious telepathy ability, the sole purpose of which is to allow her to send a clue to Picard while also being in another room for some reason?
  • It's a nice touch for Guinan to open a bar at 10 Forward Street as a reference to her bar on the Enterprise, which was named for its location on the forward section of Deck 10. It makes zero sense for her to have had the same bar in 2024, and for that to be the namesake of her bar on the Enterprise.
  • Why do they bring their communicators in 2024 instead of replicating gold, pawning it, and buying cell phones that won't raise suspicion if caught? If Jurati can produce a fake ID, why don't they replicate fake ID for everyone else so Rios won't be deported? How is Jurati able to get into the club, but has to hack the system to let anyone else get in?
  • How is the ICE agent so perceptive to notice Rios is a fake doctor because his fingers are bandaged? This is some DM railroading.
  • Picard says he remembers the exact bullet holes in the walls of Chateau Picard from the 21st century raid. How did nobody notice the bodies of a bunch of Borg buried in the basement walls?
  • When Seven is re-assimilated, why does she get the exact same Borg implants, including the one for the bionic eye she doesn't have any more?

User avatar
Mothra
Woah Dangsaurus
Posts: 3963
Joined: Mon Jan 20, 2014 7:12 pm
Location: Boston, MA
Contact:

Re: The Star Trek Thread

Postby Mothra » Fri May 20, 2022 12:38 pm

Another great ep of SNW, "Ghosts of Illyria". This one really brings in the cheese of a “space disease makes people sweat and go extra” TOS episode trope and uses it really well.

I’m regularly very impressed with how they’ve kept the feel and the spirit of TOS while updating these sets. I love how massive and complicated the warp core is, it feels right that a very large part portion of the ship in this era is taken up by this highly advanced and dangerous machine.

Some of the logistical stuff kinda clanged here and there, like the setup where they decided to beam down and do their mission moments before the ion storm hit, and most of the “fire ghost” stuff, but whatever. I am really glad that they did the fire ghost thing, because again, it’s a very outlandish TOS-type story and I love that they are embracing that.

Also a fan of how much eugenics war content there was here. I like when Trek references how bad things had to get for them to learn the lessons and gain the will to strive for the utopia they’ve achieved. I also like the idea that, once a few generations removed, as they are now, they could slink right back into those failings, unless they catch themselves. The genetic engineering ban is an element of Trek that has always felt largely unjust as a utopian ideal, but borne of a apocalyptic trauma, showing that Earth still has a lot of things its working through. It’s counter to Big Rod’s vision, but it really makes the universe more rich when they move away from the notion that there are “things of the past” that Trek characters would literally never think about. That’s just an untrue idea, where this kind of ideal future to survive.

Also heartened to see M’Benga getting some real good dramatic stuff to work with here, right out the gate. I like the idea of him taking his daughter out of the pattern buffer to read her a book. Not sure if the show will acknowledge this, but for his daughter, she’ll just be hearing him read an entire book to her, even though for him, it’ll be months and months. Cool idea.

User avatar
Crick
Posts: 270
Joined: Wed Mar 23, 2022 10:01 pm

Re: The Star Trek Thread

Postby Crick » Fri May 20, 2022 12:46 pm

I really liked the episode too!

Outside of what you've mentioned, my other quibbles are pretty small.

The line "the dark hates the light, the light hates the dark" seemed off to me-- not really something these people would say, and why was the ion storm an actual storm that was larger than the planet? Is this a reference I missed? Visually interesting, but really... fantastical.

User avatar
Sharkey
Posts: 768
Joined: Mon Jan 20, 2014 6:11 pm
Location: Send Lawyers, Guns and Money
Contact:

Re: The Star Trek Thread

Postby Sharkey » Sat May 21, 2022 4:36 am

Really digging these. I guess at this point it's basically mandatory that one of the first episodes of a new series has to be a space disease that makes everyone all sweaty and extra ham. I can see why, though. You get the broad strokes of all the characters when they're turned up to 11 and also an idea of what everyone's job is while they're reacting to a crisis. I don't know what the deal is with an ion storm being like an actual fucking cloud bank just rolling through space. Seems like maybe they should have a different name for that particularly unlikely looking shitty space weather. Dude at the science station all "No I meant like a CME, why the fuck were you expecting lightning you know you can't see electrical arcs in a vacuum."

Oh and I guess this also counts as a transporter fucks shit up ep so two birds there. Fun times.
Image

User avatar
Büge
Posts: 5440
Joined: Mon Jan 20, 2014 6:56 pm

Re: The Star Trek Thread

Postby Büge » Mon May 23, 2022 9:53 pm



I remember taping the episode when it aired. They had a making-of special that they aired beforehand with previews of Generations and Voyager, both of which were hype at the time.
Image

User avatar
Thad
Posts: 13169
Joined: Tue Jan 21, 2014 10:05 am
Location: 1611 Uranus Avenue
Contact:

Re: The Star Trek Thread

Postby Thad » Sat May 28, 2022 12:22 am

I love that this episode was clearly the result of someone watching "Arena" and realizing that the first act belongs in a completely different episode from the rest of it, and then deciding to make that episode.

User avatar
Mongrel
Posts: 21290
Joined: Mon Jan 20, 2014 6:28 pm
Location: There's winners and there's losers // And I'm south of that line

Re: The Star Trek Thread

Postby Mongrel » Sat May 28, 2022 1:57 am

So what you're saying is, no fight music. >:[
Image

User avatar
Büge
Posts: 5440
Joined: Mon Jan 20, 2014 6:56 pm

Re: The Star Trek Thread

Postby Büge » Sat May 28, 2022 8:21 am

Mongrel wrote:So what you're saying is, no fight music. >:[


Hey, the fight music didn't show up until season 2's "Amok Time".
Image

User avatar
Thad
Posts: 13169
Joined: Tue Jan 21, 2014 10:05 am
Location: 1611 Uranus Avenue
Contact:

Re: The Star Trek Thread

Postby Thad » Sat May 28, 2022 2:16 pm

Büge wrote:
Mongrel wrote:So what you're saying is, no fight music. >:[


Hey, the fight music didn't show up until season 2's "Amok Time".

Easy to get those mixed up. You'd think "Arena" would be the one with an arena in it.

User avatar
Friday
Posts: 6272
Joined: Mon Jan 20, 2014 7:40 pm
Location: Karma: -65373

Re: The Star Trek Thread

Postby Friday » Sat May 28, 2022 3:35 pm

wait wait wait.

Brentai just recently made me watch a bunch of TOS episodes, including Arena.

You're telling me that someone made an episode about the Federation using makeshift mortars to fight aliens? amazing
ImageImageImage

User avatar
Sharkey
Posts: 768
Joined: Mon Jan 20, 2014 6:11 pm
Location: Send Lawyers, Guns and Money
Contact:

Re: The Star Trek Thread

Postby Sharkey » Sat May 28, 2022 4:17 pm

That was fun but the Gorn's secret code is a replacement cypher? In English? This is a species that has faster than light travel but communicates by shining flashlights though windows at each other like grade school kids playing spy? Amazing. I dunno, maybe it's a side effect of the mind meld that it translates encrypted stuff into something from a kids activity book.
Image

User avatar
Crick
Posts: 270
Joined: Wed Mar 23, 2022 10:01 pm

Re: The Star Trek Thread

Postby Crick » Sat May 28, 2022 5:59 pm

There is a little annoying thread through SNW where things like that are seemingly dumbed down.

Also-- and again this is minor-- annoyed by the constant need to restate the science-related plot points. I think there was a line in this where Spock mentions sub-stellar mass or something and another bridge officer goes "do you ever speak in plain English?" I know it's just resetting so the audience gets it, but, like, everyone there would know what he means. They're all cross-trained to a degree. They all learn calculus in like middle school, right? And, like, he's the SCIENCE OFFICER.

Just wish it trusted the audience more.

User avatar
Thad
Posts: 13169
Joined: Tue Jan 21, 2014 10:05 am
Location: 1611 Uranus Avenue
Contact:

Re: The Star Trek Thread

Postby Thad » Sun May 29, 2022 1:14 am

Friday wrote:wait wait wait.

Brentai just recently made me watch a bunch of TOS episodes, including Arena.

You're telling me that someone made an episode about the Federation using makeshift mortars to fight aliens? amazing

Nah, it's more that they watched Arena, realized that the Gorn are really fucking scary right up until the moment you see one, and made an episode based on that opening where they're just unseen war criminals.

User avatar
Thad
Posts: 13169
Joined: Tue Jan 21, 2014 10:05 am
Location: 1611 Uranus Avenue
Contact:

Re: The Star Trek Thread

Postby Thad » Sun May 29, 2022 1:48 am

Crick wrote:There is a little annoying thread through SNW where things like that are seemingly dumbed down.

Also-- and again this is minor-- annoyed by the constant need to restate the science-related plot points. I think there was a line in this where Spock mentions sub-stellar mass or something and another bridge officer goes "do you ever speak in plain English?" I know it's just resetting so the audience gets it, but, like, everyone there would know what he means. They're all cross-trained to a degree. They all learn calculus in like middle school, right? And, like, he's the SCIENCE OFFICER.

Just wish it trusted the audience more.

"A.I.? You mean artificial intelligence?"

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 42 guests