Star Wars

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beatbandito
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Re: Star Wars

Postby beatbandito » Wed Feb 16, 2022 6:18 pm

Thad wrote:oh man you guys

If you think Boba Fett's age doesn't make sense now, how long do you s'pose it'll be before Captain Rex shows up and they're the same age?


still seems a little older to me
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Re: Star Wars

Postby IGNORE ME » Wed Feb 16, 2022 7:05 pm

I feel like it's the ultimate expression of Boba Fett's character that the armor itself keeps growing in mythic ability and the guy inside of it is pretty much reduced to its Watson.

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Re: Star Wars

Postby Thad » Thu Mar 10, 2022 11:06 am

I finished season 5 of Clone Wars and decided to watch the Utapau arc before starting season 6. That's the four episodes that were in production when the show was canceled, and which they released as story reels.

The story's fine but I can understand why, when the show got revived and season 6 got made after all, they didn't spend any of their budget on trying to finish these partially-completed episodes. They're okay. They're a lot more interesting as a peek at the production process.

The story reels are more advanced than an animatic; there's simple animation using simple models. The writing's done, the voice work is recorded for 3 of the 4 episodes; these were pretty far along and they would have been submitted to Lucas and Filoni for either approval or changes before getting locked in and submitted for full animation.

The animation's mostly simple; mouths don't move and characters slide rather than walk. The movement does get more intricate during action scenes, which makes sense; the bosses aren't going to worry about complex choreography during talky scenes but they're going to want to make sure the fight scenes are entertaining and the action is clear and easy to follow.

As for the story: like I said, it's fine. Doing another "murder mystery involving a dead Jedi" story right after the last one was probably a mistake, but that part only lasts one episode and it's probably the best-plotted of the four. Like most of the series' four-episode arcs, it feels like it's one episode longer than it needs to be. I've come to suspect that the reason they mostly switched from 3-episode arcs to 4-episode ones is simple resource management: it's easier to write 3 stories and then split them up into 4 episodes each than to write 4 stories and then split them up into 3 episodes each.

It's a decent enough Obi-Wan/Anakin story, and we haven't had one of those in awhile. It's got a couple nice character moments; my favorite is when Anakin opens up a little about how he feels about Ahsoka leaving the Jedi Order. Unfortunately then it leans into the prequels' favorite pastime, heavyhanded foreshadowing. "Master, how would you feel if I turned out to be a disappointment?" - "That will never happen, Anakin." Get it? Hah? Hah? Get it? Nudge nudge. Because he becomes Darth Vader.

But I think with a rewrite it could have been a great scene. If it had focused more on Anakin's motivation here -- which is that he's got his own doubts about the Council and he's considered leaving too, but he can't bring himself to tell Obi-Wan that in so many words.

Anyway, then James Hong shows up for a couple episodes and that man is a national treasure. I feel like that's really the biggest loss in these episodes not finishing production: we lost out on two episodes with James Hong in them. At least he got another shot in Rebels.

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Re: Star Wars

Postby Büge » Fri Mar 11, 2022 9:14 pm

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Re: Star Wars

Postby Thad » Sat Mar 12, 2022 2:23 pm

Bringing the Inquisitors back isn't a bad idea. They were, on the whole, the least interesting or memorable villains on Rebels, but they had potential. (The Grand Inquisitor sure looks to be the same character Jason Isaacs played on the cartoon, and I see Fifth Brother in there too, but I don't see anybody who looks like Seventh Sister. I wouldn't be surprised if they were holding that one in case Gellar wants to play her in live action at some point.)

I feel like "Obi-Wan is in hiding and they're trying to find him" is maybe one of those bits of Star Wars suspension of disbelief that you really don't want to lean on. The idea that they're trying to draw him out and bring him to them is a good way to get around the obviousness of his hiding place, but...the Imperials are clearly looking for him on Tatooine in the trailer, which raises such questions as "Just how bad are they at this?"

I think there's potential in the "Inquisitors are trying to wipe out the few remaining Jedi" story, though, and I'd be interested to see if there are others out there besides the ones we already know about (Ahsoka, Kanan, and Grogu -- please no Grogu -- and Yoda, for that matter, but I'd be more interested in seeing some new or previously-minor characters show up as survivors of the purge living on the fringes). There's a risk in introducing too many Jedi, but I think we're still in a spot where a few more aren't going to seem like too many yet.

Of the characters we've seen on other series, Bo-Katan and Obi-Wan have an interesting history that could make for compelling character drama, though there's such a thing as too much Mandalore. And they could always throw Temuera Morrison in somewhere as a clone. (Ideally instead of fucking around with more de-aging CG they could just throw out some technobabble about some clones aging faster than others.) But it's a big galaxy, we're already looking at at least two characters we've seen before (not including Obi-Wan and Darth Vader), and too many guest stars can get distracting. There's fitting past continuity into the story organically, and then there's Mando taking over two entire episodes of the Boba Fett show and spending one of them visiting Amy Sedaris so she can give him Anakin's ship from Episode 1 so he can go visit Luke and Ahsoka.

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Re: Star Wars

Postby Thad » Thu Mar 17, 2022 12:59 pm

Thad wrote:I finished season 5 of Clone Wars and decided to watch the Utapau arc before starting season 6. That's the four episodes that were in production when the show was canceled, and which they released as story reels.

The story's fine but I can understand why, when the show got revived and season 6 got made after all, they didn't spend any of their budget on trying to finish these partially-completed episodes.

Especially now that I've watched the actual opening arc of season 6. "A clone malfunctions and executes Order 66 early" is an altogether better story hook than "Anakin and Obi-Wan have to protect a MacGuffin that Dooku is trying to get." It makes for a dark, complex arc that feels more like something that belongs in the home stretch as the series moves toward an ending where the bad guys win and the good guys either die or go into hiding. It's also one of the most effective uses I've seen of the four-episode arc structure -- though it appears to be the last four-episode arc until the series finale.

I think the tragedy of Domino Squad might be my favorite arc in the series -- not to mention the strongest argument for watching the episodes in original broadcast order instead of chronological plot order. Introducing them in a season 1 episode where most of them die, then coming back to them in season 3 to depict them as green recruits who barely pass their test in one episode, and then having the next episode jump ahead to the surviving members returning to the Citadel some time after that first story, is an excellent storytelling choice. And while I didn't care much for the Krell arc, it made good use of Fives and Echo.

I mentioned before that the Utapau arc would have made for two consecutive arcs about investigating the murder of a Jedi -- well, this one makes three, and it's interesting how different each one is. The Utapau arc is the lightest; it just leads Obi-Wan and Anakin to a MacGuffin. The temple bombing arc casts light on the fecklessness and disloyalty of the Jedi Council and marks a turning point for Ahsoka. This is a story that leans heavily on foreshadowing events the audience already knows are going to happen but (most of) the characters don't, that elevates a character who's weaved through the series to a primary protagonist, and puts the series' theme of how war dehumanizes soldiers at its center. Plus it's a terribly dark story of a character discovering a sinister truth and nobody believing him -- because "the chancellor has implanted mind-control chips in all of us" is something a crazy person would say.

It does raise a bunch of "wait, who knows what?" questions that I probably shouldn't spend too much time thinking about. Okay, so Dooku and the Kaminoans know about Order 66? Do the Kaminoans know that Darth Tyrannus is Count Dooku? Is that common knowledge, or are the Jedi keeping it close to their vests? Given that Dooku has allowed the enemy army to be populated by clones that he has the power to take control of at any time, but he hasn't yet, doesn't that imply that he knows the war is pretextual and he doesn't seriously care about winning it? He doesn't seem to know that Darth Sidious is Chancellor Palpatine, at least not at this point, though I remember thinking when I saw episode 3 that he knew by then. (I haven't seen it since the theater but my recollection is he seemed pretty surprised when Palpatine told Anakin to execute him. And not in a "Jedi aren't supposed to do that" way, in more of a "Wait, that wasn't part of the plan" way.) How much does he know about what the endgame is here?

I do not expect these questions to be answered satisfactorily by the end of the series, really, because it's Star Wars and lots of things just don't make sense and you have to roll with them. And you know, I'm willing to let a lot of overall incoherence slide when the show's telling satisfying stories like this one.

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Re: Star Wars

Postby Thad » Sun Apr 03, 2022 5:13 pm

Thad wrote:
Thad wrote:I finished season 5 of Clone Wars and decided to watch the Utapau arc before starting season 6. That's the four episodes that were in production when the show was canceled, and which they released as story reels.

The story's fine but I can understand why, when the show got revived and season 6 got made after all, they didn't spend any of their budget on trying to finish these partially-completed episodes.

Especially now that I've watched the actual opening arc of season 6. "A clone malfunctions and executes Order 66 early" is an altogether better story hook than "Anakin and Obi-Wan have to protect a MacGuffin that Dooku is trying to get."

...except then the next arc is this fucking embezzlement storyline, which was clearly in production before the cancellation (because Ian Abercrombie voices Palpatine, and he'd already passed away and been replaced by Tim Curry by the end of season 5) and I'm absolutely baffled why they'd choose to complete that one over the Utapau story. Maybe it was just farther along into production? Maybe they wanted to finish the last episodes Abercrombie had recorded before his passing? Maybe George Lucas hadn't been sufficiently disabused of his conviction that anyone gave a fuck about the trade dispute storyline?

There's some good character stuff in there, Anakin's toxic masculinity, his jealousy, his treating his wife like property. Padme telling him off and laying out all the reasons their marriage is unhealthy, but the audience knowing for a fact that she's going to go back to him and she'll die because of it -- that's seriously fucking dark, even for a show that by this point has gotten very comfortable with just-barely-offscreen decapitations.

So there's good stuff in there -- legitimately chilling, even -- but it's surrounded by a staggeringly boring primary conflict. It's a weird damn thing to waste three episodes on, especially as the show approaches its end.

I haven't watched part 3 yet, so maybe it's better. But I don't think there's any way to bring it home that will make the first two episodes feel like less of a waste of time.

Also: Star Wars, stop calling attention to how little sense your timeline makes. You're gonna have Padme saying things like "We're not as young as we used to be"? Natalie Portman was 23 years old when Revenge of the Sith came out. I mean yes Padme is, in fact, not as young as she used to be, as that is how time works, but she's way too young to be waxing rueful about how old she's gotten.

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Re: Star Wars

Postby Thad » Thu Apr 14, 2022 4:47 pm

That banking arc is so bad (how bad is it?) it's so bad that it's a relief to move on from it to Jar-Jar and the Temple of Doom.

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Re: Star Wars

Postby Mothra » Fri Apr 15, 2022 3:24 pm

Losing it at the prospect of the Clone Wars cartoon building to an embezzlement storyline, in the style of the O.G. prequels, to the horror of the bedraggled fanbase.

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Re: Star Wars

Postby Thad » Fri Apr 15, 2022 4:00 pm

Thad wrote:I haven't watched part 3 yet, so maybe it's better.

(it was not better)

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Re: Star Wars

Postby Thad » Wed Apr 20, 2022 4:55 pm

Thad wrote:It does raise a bunch of "wait, who knows what?" questions that I probably shouldn't spend too much time thinking about. Okay, so Dooku and the Kaminoans know about Order 66? Do the Kaminoans know that Darth Tyrannus is Count Dooku? Is that common knowledge, or are the Jedi keeping it close to their vests?

Oh God, the Jedi don't know that Darth Tyrannus is Count Dooku until 3/4 of the way through season 6. And they only find out because they happen to be standing there when someone calls Dooku "Tyrannus".

This is...okay, on balance still slightly less stupid than not being able to figure out that the chancellor is a bad guy. But it's still an exciting new chapter in the Chronicles of How the Jedi Are All Complete Fucking Idiots, AKA the prequels.

(And they get just far enough to think "hey, maybe our enemy turning out to be the guy who created the clone army is a problem" but not quite far enough to get to "hey, remember a few weeks ago when a clone died raving that they all have mind-control implants designed to make them start killing Jedi?" and instead go with "We need to cover this up so people won't think this illegitimate, pretextual war is illegitimate or pretextual.")

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Re: Star Wars

Postby Mongrel » Wed May 11, 2022 2:27 am

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Re: Star Wars

Postby Thad » Tue May 17, 2022 2:35 pm

Vanity Fair has a pretty lengthy article about the various Star Wars TV series, some bits on how they're made, and what's coming up. Andor could be interesting; I like what Luna has to say about its anti-colonial message even if I figure that stuff's likely to be blunted in a Disney series. I like the sound of The Acolyte because it's set in the past and hopefully won't be too beholden to continuity (though apparently part of the goal is to explore how the Jedi all became fucking idiots who, a century later, would be unable to figure out Palpatine was a bad guy).

There's also a series codenamed "Grammar Rodeo" that sounds like Disney wanted a Star Wars version of Stranger Things. Could be good. (And yes, the article tries to explain the reference but doesn't get it quite right, stating that Bart steals a car. He rents it with a fake ID, obviously.)

Patty Jenkins and Taika Waititi both still have movies coming. Sounds like Rian Johnson's trilogy is in limbo at this point, and while I actually liked Last Jedi and want to see what he can do without being hamstrung by telling the middle part of somebody else's trilogy, I'd rather see another Benoit Blanc movie anyway.

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Re: Star Wars

Postby Thad » Thu May 19, 2022 5:11 pm

Finished Clone Wars season 6.

It was mostly pretty good! Aside from the aforementioned central bank arc, whose existence still completely fucking baffles me. I even liked the Jar-Jar/Mace two-parter; I'm a sucker for the "throw two characters who've never interacted much together and see what they do" formula.

Ending on a Yoda arc is a good call -- I don't think there's been a Yoda-led episode since the first episode of the series --, and it's solid enough that it doesn't really matter that nothing much happens and it doesn't make a whole lot of sense. (Qui-Gon and the Sages repeatedly allude to Yoda needing to learn to become a force ghost to help Luke, but...he doesn't help Luke as a force ghost in the OT. He doesn't even show up as a force ghost until literally the last 30 seconds of the OT. And it can't be a reference to Last Jedi, because this episode aired almost two years before Force Awakens came out, and we know goddamn well nobody knew what the plot of Last Jedi was going to be when they made Force Awakens. And yeah, this does lead into that bit at the end of Revenge of the Sith where Yoda tells Obi-Wan he's been talking to Qui-Gon about force ghost stuff, but he doesn't teach Obi-Wan how to become a force ghost, he just tells him to go to Tatooine and figure it out.)

It ends the season -- and, as far as anyone knew at the time, the series -- on an appropriately downbeat note, with Yoda apparently learning from what he's seen that they're basically fucked for the next thirty years.

Following Ahsoka's departure with an entire season where she doesn't appear at all (except briefly in Yoda's vision) is a pretty gutsy choice too. They would have presumably had plans by this point to bring her back on Rebels, but that reveal was still a year out. You can really feel her absence this season, which I'm sure is the point.

On the whole: mostly good; some weird bank stuff.

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Re: Star Wars

Postby Thad » Fri May 20, 2022 5:36 pm

Wait, Echo was the one who got blown up* trying to escape the Citadel?

Then who was the one who got blown up doing a Slim Pickens on the separatist ship on Umbara?

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Re: Star Wars

Postby Thad » Fri Jun 03, 2022 12:12 am

Watched the first episode of Obi-Wan and was really impressed by it! No major complaints; just the usual stuff about how you can't make the Star Wars timeline make sense.

Could have maybe used more levity, but we got a little bit with Leia, who was a real highlight of the episode. I'm impressed by the swerve there, that they didn't mention her at all in any of the preview material.

Well-written and well-acted all around. The usual criticisms apply -- Tatooine sure comes up a lot for being a backwater nobody cares about, Ewan McGregor doesn't look like he's going to turn into Alec Guinness in 15 years, and so on -- but even if that stuff's a little distracting, there's a lot more good here than bad.

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Re: Star Wars

Postby Thad » Fri Jun 03, 2022 12:35 pm

The thing about jumping straight from episode 3 to 4, or from Clone Wars to Rebels, is that Anakin's fall is because he thinks he can use his power for the greater good, but...we never actually get to see him trying to do that.

There are a lot of good reasons not to tell that story. Attempts to humanize Darth Vader tend to weaken him. Star Wars doesn't have a great track record with complex morality, and while "angry young man falls for the siren song of fascism" is an extremely timely story, it's not a franchise I necessarily trust to (1) effectively establish just what it is that's so attractive about fascism (2) without making it too attractive and ending up with a sizable chunk of the audience going "you know, Darth Vader makes a good point."

Also, in practice I think it'd probably end up looking like the Meereen arc in Game of Thrones. The one where Dany swoops in from kingdom to kingdom kicking ass and killing slavers but then as soon as she's moved on everything goes back to the way it was, because it turns out you can't just free the slaves and leave, if you want to make lasting social change you have to actually govern. I could see a story where Vader, after a series of failures, fails to learn the lesson that all that bureaucratic bullshit the Senate does that he actively disdains actually serves a purpose, and instead just becomes more cynical and kind of gives up on trying to help the oppressed.

Anyway, this isn't quite that but I saw a preview for an upcoming issue of the Darth Vader comic where one of Padme's handmaidens asks him for his help protecting a colony of people rescued from slavery on Tatooine. I haven't read a Star Wars comic since that series Brian Wood wrote back before we found out he was a sex pest, but this is a good hook and I'm interested in where they go with it.

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Re: Star Wars

Postby Mothra » Fri Jun 03, 2022 3:51 pm

Dude this Obi-Wan show fuggin' suuuuucks

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Re: Star Wars

Postby Büge » Fri Jun 03, 2022 3:59 pm

I understand they just sorta took the same premise as the Mandolorian, only with Obie and Baby Leia instead of Mando and Baby Yoda
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Re: Star Wars

Postby Thad » Fri Jun 03, 2022 4:03 pm

Mothra wrote:Dude this Obi-Wan show fuggin' suuuuucks

I really liked the first episode. Haven't seen the other two yet.

Büge wrote:I understand they just sorta took the same premise as the Mandolorian, only with Obie and Baby Leia instead of Mando and Baby Yoda

I'd heard that they intended it to be Obi-Wan protecting Luke until Mando debuted with more-or-less the same premise and so they decided to change it around.

It's...a little surprising that all they did was change who the kid was. But based on the first episode, I really like the little girl they got for Leia, I like how her scenes are written, and young Leia is inherently a more interesting character than young Luke; Luke's whole deal is that he's a backwater farmboy wishing something exciting would happen to him. Plus it gets them the fuck off Tatooine. So it's a good change even if it still winds up kind of being the same premise anyway.

And Flea is a good casting choice! That dude is scary-looking!

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