(SPOILERS) Infinity War and Beyond (Marvel Thread)

[Grath]

This is only the third solo Spider-Man movie - they probably didn't want to have The Spider-Man Moment in an ensemble film, even if they had the time to actually explore it - so then you have:
- Homecoming (only five years after the last time they did The Spider-Man Moment with Marc Webb/Andrew Garfield, makes sense that they'd put off rehashing it given that we'd just seen it)
- Far From Home (the first post-Blip movie, too busy dealing with those implications)
- No Way Home (ties in nicely for forming a shared experience with the other Spider-Verse members while they're at it)

[beatbandito]

It came out a year before No Way Home, but I think this video sums up Disney Spider-Man really well. Spoilers: he went from a working-class hero to being recruited by a private military to defend the billionaire owner from problems he created by abusing working-class people.

[Büge]

That's a great video.

I finally saw No Way Home and there's a lot to like about it, but...okay, so MCU Spider-Man never had an Uncle Ben, and we're six films deep into this and he's just now having his "It's not my problem"/"With great power comes great responsibility" moment? That's...that's pretty weird, right?

I honestly thought he'd had that already. In Civil War, he says to Tony, "When you can do the things that I can, but you don't, and then the bad things happen, they happen because of you." That's a much less concise and cogent phrasing of "With great power comes great responsibility."

[Thad]

This is only the third solo Spider-Man movie - they probably didn't want to have The Spider-Man Moment in an ensemble film, even if they had the time to actually explore it - so then you have:
- Homecoming (only five years after the last time they did The Spider-Man Moment with Marc Webb/Andrew Garfield, makes sense that they'd put off rehashing it given that we'd just seen it)
- Far From Home (the first post-Blip movie, too busy dealing with those implications)
- No Way Home (ties in nicely for forming a shared experience with the other Spider-Verse members while they're at it)

The point isn't that there wasn't space for it in the earlier films. The point is that he's been Spider-Man for years, repeatedly acknowledged the importance of helping people, and even sacrificed his life trying to save the world. No Way Home would have us believe that the concept that he has an affirmative obligation to help people when he has the power to do so, and own up to his own mistakes, is something he's just learning for the first time, after all that shit.

I honestly thought he'd had that already. In Civil War, he says to Tony, "When you can do the things that I can, but you don't, and then the bad things happen, they happen because of you." That's a much less concise and cogent phrasing of "With great power comes great responsibility."

Yeah, Civil War had the good sense to allude to the origin without showing the goddamn thing again. And Homecoming alludes to it too; Peter says he doesn't want Aunt May to find out he's Spider-Man "after everything that's happened to her." But No Way Home strongly implies that the origin never happened and Uncle Ben never even existed in this universe. Not only has he never heard the phrase "with great power comes great responsibility" before, but he doesn't react at all when the other two Spider-Men talk about Uncle Ben, and at the end of the movie there's no other grave next to May's.

Damn it, Marvel. The point was to trust the audience to understand the origin story happened even if you don't show it. This "we didn't show it, so it didn't happen" shit is just going to lead to more Batman origin movies.

[Büge]

[Mongrel]

[Büge]

[Thad]

[Thad]

Thunderbolts movie moving forward.

(Link contains spoilers for the brobdingnagiest plot twist of 1997, but if that plot twist is intact in the movie I find it unlikely it'll make it to theaters without everybody finding out about it well in advance.)

[Thad]

I liked the bits of Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness where it was a Raimi movie. Zombies and motherfuckers' heads caving in and creepy bendy ladies and weird camera angles and shit. Unfortunately most of it was Marvel House Style stuff.

Okay I admit I enjoyed some of the pandering. I mean, Professor X entering in a goddamn yellow hoverchair to the X-Men theme song? I'm not made of stone.

[Thad]

Plus, not only does Anson Mount get another crack at Black Bolt and actually get to wear the costume, but somebody actually says "Blackagar Boltagon" with a straight face.

We've come a long way since Marvel movies were so self-conscious about goofy superhero shit that they refused to say "Cosmic Cube".

[Thad]

Actually I kinda like that it's a movie where almost no reference to some previous thing is too much but you can see the exact spot where they drew the line.

In one scene, Doctor Strange says "No shit, genius."

There is a 100% chance that at some point between first draft and final take, someone suggested "No shit, Sherlock" and somebody else said "No, we're not doing that."

[Thad]

The thing I found most interesting about Ms. Marvel is how the teen superhero formula has shifted -- 60 years ago, Spider-Man's whole deal was that he was alone and he couldn't tell anybody his secret. But by the end of the season, Ms. Marvel has a whole support network of friends and family who know her secret identity and still have her back.

I feel like that reflects a shift in the kinds of stories we tell about adolescence -- like there's less of a focus on the pain and isolation and the sense that no one understands you, and more of a focus on how you're not alone after all, you have people who understand and care for you no matter how weird shit gets. And maybe your parents are cooler than you think they are.

I think that, on the whole, that's a pretty positive message -- though also that's obviously not everyone's experience, and we still need stories of people who go through hard childhoods and feel abandoned and alone and learn to overcome that. (I keep meaning to talk about Escapade, the new Marvel mutant created by Charlie Jane Anders, Ro Stein, and Ted Brandt, whose origin story involves rejection by her biological family and finding support in a found family. Those stories are important too, and reflect a sadly common experience -- but it's nice to get stories like Kamala's, too, where her family and friends know who she is and support her.)

[Büge]

[beatbandito]

2 years from now? that's like 10 whole years from now!

[Thad]

Phase 4 has been super hit-or-miss, but She-Hulk attending a group therapy session with a bunch of C-list supervillains, including the Porcupine and one of the guys from the Wrecking Crew, is pretty much everything I love about the superhero genre concentrated into a single scene.

[Niku]

She-Hulk has pretty much been firing on all cylinders from episode 1. That episode in particular was one of the most Venture Bros things the show has done.

I really think at this point it's the best thing out of phase 4, and if they stick the landing next week satisfyingly it won't even be an argument.

[KingRoyal]

I liked the first two episodes of She-Hulk well enough but felt that a show called She-Hulk: Attorney at Law had too little Hulk action and too little Law action. Need to catch up, though

[Thad]

Damn, She-Hulk's ending is so Blazing Saddles that it's followed by a black-and-white Universal Monsters homage.

[Thad]

Secret Invasion is like 75% people arguing across tables

Which makes it the most accurate adaptation of a Brian Michael Bendis comic that ever was or ever will be