Legend of Zelda: Clever Subtitle

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Thad
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Re: Legend of Zelda: Clever Subtitle

Postby Thad » Tue Nov 30, 2021 10:44 am

Newbie wrote:the Game Boy versions have my favorite sounds of any videogame ever to exist.

Yeah, I'm doing a lot of "wait, that's it?" when I hear the sound effects in the Switch version.

I think the core game is good enough that it stands on its own in isolation from the original tech it was built on, but the thing about playing on the Game Boy is it really hammers home just how fucking impressive this game is for the platform it was created for. This is "Okay, we made A Link to the Past; now how do we do that on Game Boy?" And they pull it off. It's not as big a game as LttP, but it's plenty big, and where it feels smaller it makes that work for it. It's a more intimate adventure with smaller scope; you're not out to save the world, you just want to go home.

And while LttP is the primary inspiration, it's got the good sense to look to the original game too. I've already mentioned the screen-by-screen layout which really defines how the game is put together (and how it was a mistake to change this in the remake). I also like how it takes the bit from the dungeons in the first game, where you climb down a ladder, move across the bottom of the screen, and then climb up another one, and turns it into full-on side-view platforming sections, complete with Goombas and Piranha Plants.

And from there I could talk about the connection to For the Frog the Bell Tolls, the various crossover elements with other Nintendo games, the sheer weirdness of the world and the characters who populate it...

It's a fucking delight is what it is. Really unique. There are a couple of other games that look a lot like it but they never quite grabbed me the same way. I'd love to see it get the Link Between Worlds treatment, revisit the setting, the physics, and the general design but build some new levels around the mechanics. (Or maybe I could just give the Oracles games another chance.)

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Re: Legend of Zelda: Clever Subtitle

Postby KingRoyal » Tue Nov 30, 2021 11:57 am

Putting my vote in for the original GB version. I played it so many times when I was in high schools, it's definitely top-tier Zelda, best of the top-down style. Killer soundtrack, introduces animated cut scenes for the first time, there's a Sierra/LucasArts style adventure game buried in the main game, and really memorable bosses and dungeons. Nintendo really flexed with this one, bringing the SNES experience to the Game Boy
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Re: Legend of Zelda: Clever Subtitle

Postby Blossom » Thu Dec 02, 2021 6:48 am

the DX version has the slight advantage of fixing a way to hardlock yourself by opening doors in the wrong order in one dungeon, but it's minor, and the color dungeon isn't really all that fancy

then again i don't know if you really lose anything going to that one
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Re: Legend of Zelda: Clever Subtitle

Postby beatbandito » Thu Dec 02, 2021 10:30 am

If I remember right, LADX has a longer performance of Frog's Soul, which is enough on its own. It also has the photographer, and the pictures are generally very cute.
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Re: Legend of Zelda: Clever Subtitle

Postby Thad » Thu Dec 02, 2021 11:11 am

Man the new version has a lot of seashells.

I have 24 and I haven't even gotten to the fourth dungeon yet.

I'm not sure there were even 24 in the entire game originally. IIRC 20 was the goal and there were a few extras around.

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Re: Legend of Zelda: Clever Subtitle

Postby Thad » Tue Dec 07, 2021 11:54 am

aw man they nerfed the boomerang

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Re: Legend of Zelda: Clever Subtitle

Postby Brantly B. » Tue Dec 07, 2021 1:00 pm

It's triangular?

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Re: Legend of Zelda: Clever Subtitle

Postby Thad » Fri Jan 07, 2022 6:21 pm

Another contender for "which version of Link's Awakening should I play?": Link's Awakening Redux is a romhack (for the Game Boy Color "DX" version of the game) that adds a few quality-of-life improvements, including removing the text that explains what a rock is every single time you walk into one, and the incessant low-health beep, and a couple of alternate fonts.

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Re: Legend of Zelda: Clever Subtitle

Postby Newbie » Fri May 12, 2023 9:18 pm

So TOTK's out, huh? I hear it's good. I'm picking up my copy tomorrow, though I probably won't be able to play until Sunday night.
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Re: Legend of Zelda: Clever Subtitle

Postby Friday » Fri May 12, 2023 10:57 pm

I know this thread is probably going to be about Tears of the Kingdom soon, but I'd like to mention that I did finally start playing Link's Awakening and ...

well, someone made a point about how playing it on the original gameboy is best because it will blow you away how they made a game like this on the original gameboy.

So I'm playing the original gameboy and I'm blown away.

This game feels like the "killer app" that Valve has talked about, it's so impressive that I imagine it moved gameboys back in the day because people wanted to play this one game so much.

As for my modern take, I consider it a game that is absolutely an amazing masterpiece that is held back by tech limitations of the time. I spend so much goddamn time in my subscreen swapping weapons/items in and out. The addition of dedicated buttons for jump and sprint would do so, so much to help this game.

My biggest gripe is everything to do with the power bracelet. Why isn't this a passive once you get it? Why do you have to waste time equipping this shit every time you want to lift a pot? why does the game pop up a

s l o w

text screen every time you touch a pot or a rock without the bracelet equipped? aagghhh.

Anyway, the normal human thing to do when they play a really good game is to immediately report an itemized list of complaints and then say "but it's actually good" briefly at the end, so let's subvert that by listing some reasons why Link's Awakening fuckin' rules:

1. the sound design is so goddamn punchy. I kill shit not because I want a rupee or a heart but because I just like listening to my sword hit them and then the sound of them exploding.

2. the music is absolutely bonkers for the system. Hell, it's pretty good even compared to top tier NES stuff.

3. the graphics are good! how the fuck does this game look so good on this hardware aaaaaaaa

4. the story is good! a common (and valid) criticism of ALTTP is that the story is basically nonexistent. It's just maiden mcguffin quest and then kill Ganon. Some NPCs will barf out text boxes to do some worldbuilding, but as far as the main story the only scene that is even remotely emotional is the dying priest in Sanctuary after you get the Master Sword. By contrast, LA has character building and a real sense of emotional weight as you slowly realize what is going on in this strange world you find yourself in.

5. The boss design! One thing about ALTTP that sucks is its bosses. They're fine, serviceable, but LA has REALLY interesting design. A lot more challenging, in a good way!

6. The dungeons! well, okay, ALTTP had excellent dungeons too, but LA's dungeons are just as good, and that's incredible!

7. Jump! HOLY SHIT WHY IS JUMPING SO FUN

8. because Crystalis did it first

9. hahah chain chomp

10. i love all the mario shit in this game it's great

11. PEEOOOWWWHOPPP

12. that was the sound of me cutting a dude in half

13. OH YEAH MOTHERFUCKER HE DROPPED A TRIFORCE NOW I HAVE SUPER SWORD POWER AND MOVE FASTER

14. this game rules
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Re: Legend of Zelda: Clever Subtitle

Postby Mothra » Fri May 12, 2023 11:36 pm

lol bow wow

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Re: Legend of Zelda: Clever Subtitle

Postby Mongrel » Fri May 12, 2023 11:56 pm

I think it says a lot that while I wasn't a big 8-bit Zelda guy, I remember a hell of a lot more from LA than ever have from ALTTP; it's just so much more memorable of a game in its own right, where ALTTP sticks out more for being a pioneer.
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Re: Legend of Zelda: Clever Subtitle

Postby nosimpleway » Sat May 13, 2023 1:14 am

Friday wrote:One thing about ALTTP that sucks is its bosses.

I like the one with the giant eyeball

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Re: Legend of Zelda: Clever Subtitle

Postby Thad » Sat May 13, 2023 1:27 am

Friday wrote:As for my modern take, I consider it a game that is absolutely an amazing masterpiece that is held back by tech limitations of the time. I spend so much goddamn time in my subscreen swapping weapons/items in and out. The addition of dedicated buttons for jump and sprint would do so, so much to help this game.


Sword and shield get dedicated buttons in the Switch version. I think they give A to lift/dash like in LttP, too, but I won't swear to that.

Unfortunately not only does jump not have a dedicated button, it's impossible to bind to B. (Well, impossible in-game. You can re-bind Switch controls in the console settings.)

1. the sound design is so goddamn punchy. I kill shit not because I want a rupee or a heart but because I just like listening to my sword hit them and then the sound of them exploding.

2. the music is absolutely bonkers for the system. Hell, it's pretty good even compared to top tier NES stuff.

It's got the best audio on the Game Boy, and it's not even close. The Switch version has mostly good-to-great remixes of the music, but the sound effects just aren't nearly as distinctive.

I've never managed to get too far into the Oracles games but I feel like I should at least take another crack at Seasons.

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Re: Legend of Zelda: Clever Subtitle

Postby Friday » Sun May 14, 2023 6:16 am

nosimpleway wrote:
Friday wrote:One thing about ALTTP that sucks is its bosses.

I like the one with the giant eyeball


hmm, let's actually go through them!

Armos Knights: (Hopping Knight Statues) C tier. They're fine.

Lanmolas: (Burrowing Worms) F tier. Boring and not dangerous.

Moldorm: (Knock you off platform giant asshole worm) A tier. One of the best bosses, as annoying as he is.

Agahnim First Encounter: Boring as fuck. The gimmick is fine, but why do I have to wait ten years between each shot? F- tier. Worst boss in the game.

Helmasaur King: (Giant Masked dude with tail) B tier. Pretty fun! Bomb or hammer his mask off and then go to town on his exposed face with sword.

Arrghus: (Eyeball with other eyeballs you pull off with hookshot) C tier. Boring, but I dunno, I sort of like hookin' off cotton eyes and killin' em. Final phase where he just bounces around the room isn't... bad.

Mothula: (Moth with moving spikes) S tier. Holy shit! an actual boss! He moves, shoots hard to dodge ring lasers, the ground is conveyer belts, the spikes are moving around, there's a lot going on! Actually has a chance to kill you!

Blind the Thief: A tier! Two good bosses in a row??? The closest thing to bullet hell in ALTTP.

Kholdstare: (Frozen Eyeball) C tier. Use fire and then hit eyeballs while rocks drop on you. Yawn.

Vitreous: (Slime Eyeball) C tier. God those little eyeballs have so much HP. Fun fact: I once had to fight this guy in Mothula's arena with only the Fighter's Sword and 6 hearts (no mail) in a randomizer. The Fighter's Sword couldn't damage him except when charged for a spin attack. I think I died 20 times.

Trinexx: (Three headed turtle thing) B tier. Requires the use of both rods for phase one, and then runs around like a lunatic in phase two.

Agahnim Second Encounter: Having two clones makes him better, but the basic pattern is the same. D tier.

Ganon: Not bad. B tier. Much harder on first timers, once you figure out his shit he's kind of a pushover compared to Mothula and Blind, who will still fuck me up even today. But he's a good final boss for your first time through.

So yeah more of them are good than bad, actually, but the average isn't that great.
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Re: Legend of Zelda: Clever Subtitle

Postby Lottel » Tue May 16, 2023 10:20 am

Friday wrote: I did finally start playing Link's Awakening and


I was summoned. Link's Awakening is not only my favourite Zelda, but one of my favourite games of all time. Every now and then I think it's because of nostalgia but it's not. It's a solid game through and through with so much charm to back up the mechanics. You can tell it was a passion project for everybody on the team.

The sound design is so good, barely a day goes by where I don't whistle Manbo's Mambo. All the songs are that good, I just liked warping a lot as a kid. You know, it was my first introduction to Totaka's song as well so before the internet corrected me, I thought all appearances of the song were just references to Link's Awakening.

Thad is right in saying that the Switch remake is very, very good and does address some of the controls that were limited by the platform it was on, but the game definitely feels like it's for people who loved it on original hardware. The full experience for that game is "play the original first and then the remake" to the point the original should have been included on the cartridge.

But the Switch isn't the only way to get better controls! That's where my good friend romhacks comes in. Recently, I bought one of those handheld emulator guys after not being happy qualitywise with all the raspi/whatever stuff I built. (Anbernic rg353v for those interested. Basically a Linux-based gameboy pocket with power to play up to some PSP games). I only this mainly to play romhacks of games to fix controls that bothered me or get rid of extra grind so I can just enjoy the game.
Link's Awakening was the first thing I put on there alongside Link's Awakening Redux, a fairly comprehensive quality of life improvement and the game handles beautifully.

After you're finished, I do suggest playing the Switch game sometime as it is a lovely product, but personally I think I'm going to reach towards the romhack versions on my next replays. And also probably the switch version again too. Fuck, I love Link's Awakening.

Oh and if you're still looking to put off whatever big game you keep saying you'll play but find excuses not to, The Frog For Whom the Bell Tolls has a lot of English versions out including a repro cart and it's fun to see where a lot of the charm from Link's Awakening originated. Talk about a game that seems too big for the hardware.


Mild TotK spoilers Using the Link's Awakening amiibo, you can unlock a mask that gives you the big cartoon head of Link's Awakening and a sail cloth that looks like the Windfish Egg and I'm doing all I can to resist spamming the amiibo to unlock it.
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Re: Legend of Zelda: Clever Subtitle

Postby Thad » Tue May 16, 2023 10:41 am

I never got around to finishing For the Frog the Bell Tolls; I keep meaning to take another crack at it.

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Re: Legend of Zelda: Clever Subtitle

Postby beatbandito » Wed May 17, 2023 3:41 pm

Finished my first TOTK boss and it's kind of amazing how well done the fight was. Mechanically interesting, tailored to be playable at any stage or level of progress, with clearly integrated ways to skillfully surpass the rotation that would otherwise probably go on a bit long.
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Re: Legend of Zelda: Clever Subtitle

Postby beatbandito » Fri May 19, 2023 2:16 pm

beatbandito wrote:Finished my first TOTK boss and it's kind of amazing how well done the fight was. Mechanically interesting, tailored to be playable at any stage or level of progress, with clearly integrated ways to skillfully surpass the rotation that would otherwise probably go on a bit long.

I feel it is as necessary to point out: the second boss I encountered was the exact same boss as the first.
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Re: Legend of Zelda: Clever Subtitle

Postby Newbie » Fri May 19, 2023 8:53 pm

Awww.

While that's disappointing, I DID find out a fun use for mine carts through the fusion system. Remember how BotW lets you shield surf down hills? Well Link ain't exactly Tony Hawk, but...
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