Fight for What's Right: The Protest Thread

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Thad
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Re: Fight for What's Right: The Protest Thread

Postby Thad » Wed Jul 29, 2020 10:42 am

Friday wrote:Look at that. Look at what MLK had to fight against.

And he won.

Not just him, but the people who followed him.

They fought, they bled, they died. But in the end, they won.

I wouldn't frame it like that. What's the end? What's winning?

I think a lot of people talk about the Civil Rights Movement as something that happened in the past, but it isn't. It never ended, it hasn't been won, we're still living in it.

Which obviously isn't to diminish the hard-won victories of the '50s and '60s and the progress in both policy and public opinion that people like MLK fought and died for. But the work remains unfinished.

Romosome wrote:I know everyone doesn't want to feel like a fool, and that 2016 had a lot of soothsaying that turned out to be bullshit. I went around telling people "it's fine there aren't enough old white voters to elect Trump".

But this is a very different scenario from 2016 and the data is bearing it out. We can be sure Trump's support is eroding because we can see him actually eroding it in real time.

“Trump Could Not Be More on the Wrong Side”: New Poll Shows Trump’s Black Lives Matter Protest Response Could Cost Him 2020

This is still a pretty small sample and we can't draw the big clickbaity conclusions from it that the article does. Even if it was completely accurate, we can't just sit on our hands. But the fact is that the wind is in our favor.


I continue to believe that Trump's best chance at winning in November is a massive voter disenfranchisement campaign. Keep an eye on what's going on in the swing states, Wisconsin in particular.

(Speaking for Arizona: I'm cautiously optimistic. There are likely to be problems, but we've got Democrats in charge of our voting infrastructure both at the state level and in Maricopa County, the major population center. We can reasonably assume they won't try to ratfuck the election in favor of Trump, though that's not to say there won't be problems. Plus, we've got an excellent mail-in voting infrastructure; I put our primary ballots in the mail this morning.)

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Re: Fight for What's Right: The Protest Thread

Postby Friday » Wed Jul 29, 2020 10:50 am

What's the end? What's winning?


Personally I believe that it's Tucker Carlson growing to fifty stories tall and a group of teenagers with colorful hair shows up and defeats him and he does that slow, final fantasy final boss disintegrate from the bottom up
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Re: Fight for What's Right: The Protest Thread

Postby Thad » Wed Jul 29, 2020 11:41 am

Friday wrote:
What's the end? What's winning?


Personally I believe that it's Tucker Carlson growing to fifty stories tall and a group of teenagers with colorful hair shows up and defeats him and he does that slow, final fantasy final boss disintegrate from the bottom up

And yet it's a Lavos scream I hear in my head as I picture it.

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Re: Fight for What's Right: The Protest Thread

Postby Büge » Wed Jul 29, 2020 12:14 pm

Thad wrote:I continue to believe that Trump's best chance at winning in November is a massive voter disenfranchisement campaign.


Hm



yup
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Re: Fight for What's Right: The Protest Thread

Postby beatbandito » Wed Jul 29, 2020 12:42 pm

and just in case that somehow doesn't cinch it:

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Re: Fight for What's Right: The Protest Thread

Postby Mongrel » Wed Jul 29, 2020 2:26 pm

I mean, Trump's already said he's not promising to step down if he loses, which is like, hooooooooooollllllllllld on there buddy.

Never mind Obama saying that, imagine literally any other president in the history of the US saying that. Like, even Andrew Jackson wouldn't go there.
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Re: Fight for What's Right: The Protest Thread

Postby Brentai » Wed Jul 29, 2020 2:29 pm

At this point I'm not sure if either side doesn't want that to happen. Finally, some actionable villainy.
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Re: Fight for What's Right: The Protest Thread

Postby Mongrel » Wed Jul 29, 2020 2:31 pm

Brentai wrote:At this point I'm not sure if either side doesn't want that to happen. Finally, some actionable villainy.

Yeah, I think that for the time being in the US, that's still, mercifully, a red line Not To Be Crossed.
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Re: Fight for What's Right: The Protest Thread

Postby Brentai » Wed Jul 29, 2020 3:00 pm

Iiiii don't think you quite understand what that means.
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Re: Fight for What's Right: The Protest Thread

Postby Mongrel » Wed Jul 29, 2020 3:03 pm

Brentai wrote:Iiiii don't think you quite understand what that means.

I was about to go on about Trump until I realized you probably meant the incidental (unintentional) reference to Redlining?
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Re: Fight for What's Right: The Protest Thread

Postby Mongrel » Wed Jul 29, 2020 3:08 pm

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Re: Fight for What's Right: The Protest Thread

Postby Mongrel » Thu Jul 30, 2020 2:48 pm

Some good



and a laugh

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Re: Fight for What's Right: The Protest Thread

Postby Mongrel » Thu Jul 30, 2020 3:24 pm

Aww yeah, another good one.

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Re: Fight for What's Right: The Protest Thread

Postby mharr » Fri Jul 31, 2020 8:49 am

Mongrel wrote:Yeah, whatever side of 40%-50% the white support for BLM is, it's WAY higher than the 10% or so you see on the graphs in Friday's posts.

40% of a majority demographic is A LOT of angry people who want change. IIRC, historically, societies generally change to adapt once more than just 10% of people agree something is unjust (might be 15%, but it's still surprisingly low).

Do you know if the 10 - 15% trigger point assumes the opposing forces are also close to single digits and the majority will go along with whatever and are mostly just wondering what's for lunch? This thing where 80% the population are radicalised one way or another seems like it might not follow the same path.

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Re: Fight for What's Right: The Protest Thread

Postby Mongrel » Fri Jul 31, 2020 2:24 pm

mharr wrote:
Mongrel wrote:Yeah, whatever side of 40%-50% the white support for BLM is, it's WAY higher than the 10% or so you see on the graphs in Friday's posts.

40% of a majority demographic is A LOT of angry people who want change. IIRC, historically, societies generally change to adapt once more than just 10% of people agree something is unjust (might be 15%, but it's still surprisingly low).

Do you know if the 10 - 15% trigger point assumes the opposing forces are also close to single digits and the majority will go along with whatever and are mostly just wondering what's for lunch? This thing where 80% the population are radicalised one way or another seems like it might not follow the same path.

I forget where I read about it since it was a year or more ago, but it wouldn't surprise me if it only applied to more peaceable times where (as you say) 50% or even 80% of the population will just go along with whatever after some grumbling.
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Re: Fight for What's Right: The Protest Thread

Postby beatbandito » Fri Jul 31, 2020 2:34 pm

Peaceful times are easier to assume that you seem to be implying. Violence down the street looks the same as violence across the globe on a tv screen. And that's only if you get to see more than a picture of a burning car and a chyron that says "violent protests" making you assume this isn't actually any more of an "issue" than occupy wallstreet.
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Re: Fight for What's Right: The Protest Thread

Postby Mongrel » Fri Jul 31, 2020 3:32 pm

beatbandito wrote:Peaceful times are easier to assume that you seem to be implying. Violence down the street looks the same as violence across the globe on a tv screen. And that's only if you get to see more than a picture of a burning car and a chyron that says "violent protests" making you assume this isn't actually any more of an "issue" than occupy wallstreet.

Well, actual peaceable times and people just thinking it's peaceable times may be a case of thought defining reality in this case.

What I mean is, the majority will go along far more easily when they don't feel personally threatened (in their person or merely to their privileges), even if that's not actually a correct assessment.
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Re: Fight for What's Right: The Protest Thread

Postby mharr » Fri Jul 31, 2020 8:13 pm

The genie I can't see being put back into the bottle is the profitable automation of propaganda and conspiracy theory. Everyone in 2020 carries their own tiny glowing personalised National Enquirer at all times.

You can't stop the signal but you can drown it in the noise.

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